ALBERTO SALAZAR BANNED FROM ATHLETICS FOR FOUR YEARS FOR DOPING VIOLATIONS

Salazar is a fighter. He'll be back and stronger and wiser.

ahemm wrote:

Your ignorance is bliss wrote:

So you guys think that all of this is coincidental?

1) Salazar started using testosterone before he retired

2) Slaney got busted for doping with testosterone while Salazar was helping coach her

3) Charts show that Rupp was on testosterone medication from an early age after starting to work with Salazar

4) Trainers found hypodermic needles and testosterone gel in Salazar's room at training camp

5) Salazar would have trainers take days off to personally massage Rupp

6) Salazar tested the amount of testosterone it would take to trigger a positive test on his own son

3) has been proven to be FALSE. Please don't spread false statements.

B F'ing S. It is argued what is meant by "testosterone medication", but what I wrote is 100% accurate. If you are telling me it is proven false, then show me said proof.

I guess the point is that we can all speculate, but there is still a burden of proof, even in arbitration, and despite years of investigation and accessing everything they could (and with the cooperation of a bunch of former high-level athletes that have quit NOP) they didn't even find more than a whisper of actual evidence he used any banned substances or banned methods on his elite athletes (Magness, fine, but I never considered him a NOP athlete).

So your answer is yes - you find it all to be coincidental and that it is just because Salazar cheated in his younger days, stopped when he started coaching NOP, and just uses all the testosterone on himself. To live in such a world. You must assume the same for Jama Aden.

how are you leaving out the JUICY ones?!?!

1- giving his some androgel rub downs with happy endings to see if Kraft would like one...i mean if his son would come back glowing!

2- handing out other peoples thyroid meds without being a DOCTOR to other runners in his stable

3- mailing said thyroid meds in a F*CKING cut out book!

4- making ever good runner in the last decade be training food for rupp, testing injectables on magness

5- turning cain and hassay into ANOREXIC runners, telling kara she needed to lose weight, and throwing that violent temper tantrum at ALBQ indoor nationals

yeah ok he is some innocent dude with no dark history lolz

There is a difference between a nutritionist advising a healthy diet of real food vs abusing unneeded subscription drugs to gain a competitive advantage. One is healthy living the other is destroying your bodies natural functions. Case in point is that someone like Rupp will need to be on thyroid or testosterone meds his whole life because his body has completely stopped natural production of said hormones thanks to unnecessary elevated levels.

So your answer is yes - you find it all to be coincidental and that it is just because Salazar cheated in his younger days, stopped when he started coaching NOP, and just uses all the testosterone on himself. To live in such a world. You must assume the same for Jama Aden.

No, you just aren't reading what we're writing. I'm a lawyer and when you're presenting a case and the burden is on your side, you have to come up with evidence to meet that burden. USADA did not come anywhere close to meeting their burden with respect to any of Salazar's activities with his athletes.

Sure, there's a chance that he was giving testosterone to Rupp. We can speculate, and those facts are weird. There's no evidence of it whatsoever, however, because either it didn't happen or Rupp and Salazar lied effectively and convinced the panel as well, and four years is a long ban for what they actually did find evidence of.

Frankly, the thyroid medication issue was the most problematic thing in the report for me, and evidenced use of legal substances and prescriptions to gain a competitive advantage. That seems like an unethical practice of medicine.

Positive Contribution wrote:There is a difference between a nutritionist advising a healthy diet of real food vs abusing unneeded subscription drugs to gain a competitive advantage. One is healthy living the other is destroying your bodies natural functions. Case in point is that someone like Rupp will need to be on thyroid or testosterone meds his whole life because his body has completely stopped natural production of said hormones thanks to unnecessary elevated levels.

I agree that it is shady, unethical practice of medicine. Reading the report I kept thinking that it seems like Brown's medical license should get revoked. It's still not evidence of Alberto Salazar giving his athletes banned substances, however.

With respect to the L-carnitine, it can be bought OTC and is a diet supplement, not a prescription drug. There are serious issues with the thyroid medication prescriptions, but (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I don't believe those medications are substances banned by WADA.

You are confusing my statement.

I acknowledge they haven't definitively proven that Salazar used testosterone on his athletes, just as I acknowledge that they haven't definitively proved Aden doped his athletes. I'm saying you have to live in a fantasy world and do mental gymnastics to think they didn't given the preponderance of evidence. No definitive proof that El G doped either.

USADA's burden of proof was not that he loaded Rupp up with T, but that he broke anti-doping rules, which he did and they proved.

If you want to vigorously defend every athlete and coach that hasn't been caught with a needle in their arm, that's your prerogative, and I'm pointing out it is naive.

All that about thyroid medication may be true, but the charge of unethical practice of medicine was beyond the scope of the panel. It is possible that this has all been referred to the Texas Medical Board and will be adjudicated there but as of this morning there is no note on Dr. Brown's license with the Texas Medical Board. USADA argued this vigorously at the Dr. Brown hearing but the panel declined to second guess his practice of medicine with non-prohibited substances.

Salazar gets banned with a finding he did not dope any of his athletes.

Magness a (non NOP member) take an infusion of a substance that is not banned.

Salazar son (not a member of NOP) has some T cream rubbed on him and tested.

Only offense is

Salazar told NOP members to say they got and legal injection of LCarn instead of legal IV of Lcarn

Am I reading this wrong.

If correct this is nothing but a witch hunt and will surely be overturned on appeal.

NOTE - didn't magness get a thyroid prescription from DR Brown before imporoving dramatically in high school and running 4:01 for the mile?

I understand it was beyond the scope. Just saying from my viewpoint that was the most serious aspect of the report, and probably something WADA/USADA need to address in their rulemaking.

Your ignorance is bliss wrote:If you want to vigorously defend every athlete and coach that hasn't been caught with a needle in their arm, that's your prerogative, and I'm pointing out it is naive.

In that case, I hope you are satisfied and content having pointed it out, and I am happy that you were able to express your thoughts.

Creaky Bones wrote:

I agree that it is shady, unethical practice of medicine. Reading the report I kept thinking that it seems like Brown's medical license should get revoked. It's still not evidence of Alberto Salazar giving his athletes banned substances, however.

With respect to the L-carnitine, it can be bought OTC and is a diet supplement, not a prescription drug. There are serious issues with the thyroid medication prescriptions, but (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I don't believe those medications are substances banned by WADA.

I'm quite interested to see if there are further proceedings by the Texas Medical Board. I have only read the ruling on Dr. Brown, not the one on Salazar. The ruling omits any substantive discussion of his medical practice with respect to thyroid or other non-banned substances. Thyroid prescriptions are not banned by Wada.

There is discussion of Dr. Brown having procedures before the Texas Medical Board in conjunction with the joint defense agreement. We already knew that, based on the leaked USADA letter to the TMB. It is unclear if there are still any proceedings ongoing.

Creaky Bones wrote:

I understand it was beyond the scope. Just saying from my viewpoint that was the most serious aspect of the report, and probably something WADA/USADA need to address in their rulemaking.

Can you point me to the particular section of the report that addresses this? As I said, I have only read the Dr. Brown decision and haven't gotten to the Alberto report.

I'm not sure I want WADA/USADA to be ruling on the appropriate or inappropriate practice of medicine of non-prohibited substances. That would be a pretty fraught enterprise considering the differences in the culture and legal structures regarding the practice of medicine in different jurisdictions.

This was a plea deal. USADA and WADA have had the goods on Salazar for almost a decade now, but Nike's army of attorney's were able to delay sentencing. They could have continued to delay forever, most likely. The enforcement agencies were outmatched. Most likely, they simply wanted it off their plates and this was the best deal they could make. Salazar is done as a coach and Nike and their athletes escape penalty.

If you had asked me 10 years ago, who the bigger criminal was, Lance or Alberto I would have said Lance without hesitation. But now? I'd say it's Alberto. Lance only cheated for himself.

THE PANEL WROTE:

The Panel has taken pains to note that Respondent made unintentional mistakes that violated the rules, apparently motivated by his desire to provide the very best results and training for athletes under his care. Unfortunately, that desire clouded his judgment in some instances, when his usual focus on the rules appears to have lapsed.

I'm rapidly losing respect for most of the professional runners tweeting from their high horses. The finding was not that condemning yet everyone is acting like Salazar committed triple homicide. Wow. Get a grip people. One thing is clear: There are a lot of salty and jealous runners out there.

Link wrote:

This was a plea deal. USADA and WADA have had the goods on Salazar for almost a decade now, but Nike's army of attorney's were able to delay sentencing. They could have continued to delay forever, most likely. The enforcement agencies were outmatched. Most likely, they simply wanted it off their plates and this was the best deal they could make. Salazar is done as a coach and Nike and their athletes escape penalty.

If you had asked me 10 years ago, who the bigger criminal was, Lance or Alberto I would have said Lance without hesitation. But now? I'd say it's Alberto. Lance only cheated for himself.

great story. too bad this is all in your head and conjecture and not supported by any facts.

subject matter jurisdiction wrote:

Creaky Bones wrote:

I understand it was beyond the scope. Just saying from my viewpoint that was the most serious aspect of the report, and probably something WADA/USADA need to address in their rulemaking.

Can you point me to the particular section of the report that addresses this? As I said, I have only read the Dr. Brown decision and haven't gotten to the Alberto report.

I'm not sure I want WADA/USADA to be ruling on the appropriate or inappropriate practice of medicine of non-prohibited substances. That would be a pretty fraught enterprise considering the differences in the culture and legal structures regarding the practice of medicine in different jurisdictions.

I doubt the info in the Salazar decision is different than the Brown decision, but it starts on/around Page 93.

That's a good point about WADA micromanaging medical decisions, but one thing they could do is require athletes to get a TUE for it. Might discourage the practice. They require TUEs for asthma medications, correct? Same thing happens there, with a lot of athletes getting prescriptions they don't need. I tend to recall the rate of asthma diagnosis in Olympic distance runners is something like 3-4x the general population.