Frank: Here's the car keys, meet me at the finish. wrote:
maybe this wrote:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0038.jpg?preset=p"Where does that indistinct figure go? A few frames later, he's on the other side of the car, just over the shoulder of HM runner #4090"
Talking to his accomplice?
This one needs hi res.
Is that a silver/gray X5?
A new term for marathon cheating:. a-Meza-ing?
Thinking nice thoughts wrote:
Just dropped in to say that I am really, REALLY impressed by the sleuths on this thread. Impressive work.
Good job!
I'll second that! Great job. Keep the hits coming.
Derick, you should now have enough for 2 more DQ's, right?
FWIW, you should form a partnership with deadesq and a few others.
It's almost incomprehensible that someone like Meza who's held the job and life positions he has would do this, and for years while surrounded by other professional medical types and coaches who must have known and probably even helped him. It's just hard to grasp, there's got to be a short book on it or a series of articles at the very least, although it seems to me the problem is getting all the details of those involved, those who knew and how it was done.
maybe this wrote:
The series of images Deadesq put together deserves to live in the annals of exposed marathon cheaters forever. It deserves to be laid out in detail.
The images are from the 2017 Long Beach Marathon. The location is precisely 1405 E. Ocean Blvd:
https://goo.gl/maps/Np56WpUyEKxLbweR6The location is around mile 25.7, with just over a half mile to go to the finish line, just around the corner on Shoreline Drive. Prior to this point, FM has hit the timing mats at 5K, 10K, 13.1 miles, and 20 miles, and was photographed at mile 5.6, but he failed to appear in photos taken around mile 8.5 and 17.5. (In 2018, FM misses the timing mat added that year at mile 21.)
To determine the time, first look at two pictures of the finish line taken just seconds apart, the first showing a HM finisher at 1:27:27.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-02/85/817085/1027/0028.jpg?preset=pThe very next image in the sequence, take just seconds later, shows the women's marathon winner approaching the line at 2:47:33:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-02/85/817085/1027/0029.jpg?preset=pThis means the half marathon started one hour and twenty minutes after the marathon.
The time of day in the pictures is around 9:03 AM. FM will finish his marathon (gun time 2:57:09) in around 4 minutes after the following pictures were taken.
In this next photo, we see HM runner #13290. His finishing clock time will be 1:36:08, just after 9:06 AM, so the current time is around 9:03 AM. Just left of 13290's elbow in the background is a white car, while an indistinct figure leans against it.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0035.jpg?preset=pWhere does that indistinct figure go? A few frames later, he's on the other side of the car, just over the shoulder of HM runner #4090 (finishing gun time 1:35:44).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0038.jpg?preset=pThen the indistinct figure appears again, now closer and on the sidewalk, just off the shoulder of HM runner #4346 (finishing gun time 1:36:20).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0049.jpg?preset=pNow the figure rises above the pink shoulder of HM runner #4998 (clock time 3:00:12; she was an early HM starter).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0001.jpg?preset=pIn the next two images, the figure is nearer and on the sidewalk, but not wearing a bib. HM runner #10172 passes by (gun time finish of 1:37:07).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0002.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0003.jpg?preset=pThe figure is blocked from view until HM runner #11402 goes by (gun time 1:36:59 at finish), and at this point the figure is very clearly FM wearing his Aztlan singlet, but not yet displaying his bib.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0008.jpg?preset=pThen FM remembers he needs to show his bib:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0010.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0011.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0012.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0013.jpg?preset=pFour minutes after he passes this point, FM will cross the finish line for a chip time of 2:54:26, gun time of 2:57:09, or right around 1:37:09 after the start of the half marathon, which corresponds exactly to the finishing times of the HM runners he is photographed with.
What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is detailed photographic evidence of FM, bib concealed, lingering off the side of the course before jumping back in the race, a half mile from the finish line of a supposed near-record marathon performance. It's just as if Rosie Ruiz were caught on video.
This is absolutely the best sequence yet. Great work!
Frank - does this convince you that the charade is over? If not, you’re delusional.
Is he intentionally trying to cover his number with his hands when he spots the photographer?
My two cents worth. wrote:
It's almost incomprehensible that someone like Meza who's held the job and life positions he has would do this, and for years while surrounded by other professional medical types and coaches who must have known and probably even helped him. It's just hard to grasp, there's got to be a short book on it or a series of articles at the very least, although it seems to me the problem is getting all the details of those involved, those who knew and how it was done.
I have trouble imagining people helping (besides skeptics keeping quiet which I think is a natural reaction). Just doesn’t seem plausible to me from the perspective of what are his motives.
It seems like feeding his ego is the most plausible explanation and that requires people around him thinking he is legit.
Deadesc is the Roger Federer of sleuthing. Incredible job. The LAM 2017 find is priceless and hopefully can lead to another LAM DQ. The Long Beach shots are perhaps the most impressive. Great job, everybody!! Looking forward to the Derek articles and his assumed accompanying emails to the race directors which have more gravitas than the average lrc poster's.
This is as good as it gets wrote:
maybe this wrote:
The series of images Deadesq put together deserves to live in the annals of exposed marathon cheaters forever. It deserves to be laid out in detail.
The images are from the 2017 Long Beach Marathon. The location is precisely 1405 E. Ocean Blvd:
https://goo.gl/maps/Np56WpUyEKxLbweR6The location is around mile 25.7, with just over a half mile to go to the finish line, just around the corner on Shoreline Drive. Prior to this point, FM has hit the timing mats at 5K, 10K, 13.1 miles, and 20 miles, and was photographed at mile 5.6, but he failed to appear in photos taken around mile 8.5 and 17.5. (In 2018, FM misses the timing mat added that year at mile 21.)
To determine the time, first look at two pictures of the finish line taken just seconds apart, the first showing a HM finisher at 1:27:27.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-02/85/817085/1027/0028.jpg?preset=pThe very next image in the sequence, take just seconds later, shows the women's marathon winner approaching the line at 2:47:33:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-02/85/817085/1027/0029.jpg?preset=pThis means the half marathon started one hour and twenty minutes after the marathon.
The time of day in the pictures is around 9:03 AM. FM will finish his marathon (gun time 2:57:09) in around 4 minutes after the following pictures were taken.
In this next photo, we see HM runner #13290. His finishing clock time will be 1:36:08, just after 9:06 AM, so the current time is around 9:03 AM. Just left of 13290's elbow in the background is a white car, while an indistinct figure leans against it.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0035.jpg?preset=pWhere does that indistinct figure go? A few frames later, he's on the other side of the car, just over the shoulder of HM runner #4090 (finishing gun time 1:35:44).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0038.jpg?preset=pThen the indistinct figure appears again, now closer and on the sidewalk, just off the shoulder of HM runner #4346 (finishing gun time 1:36:20).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1010/0049.jpg?preset=pNow the figure rises above the pink shoulder of HM runner #4998 (clock time 3:00:12; she was an early HM starter).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0001.jpg?preset=pIn the next two images, the figure is nearer and on the sidewalk, but not wearing a bib. HM runner #10172 passes by (gun time finish of 1:37:07).
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0002.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0003.jpg?preset=pThe figure is blocked from view until HM runner #11402 goes by (gun time 1:36:59 at finish), and at this point the figure is very clearly FM wearing his Aztlan singlet, but not yet displaying his bib.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0008.jpg?preset=pThen FM remembers he needs to show his bib:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0010.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0011.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0012.jpg?preset=phttps://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0013.jpg?preset=pFour minutes after he passes this point, FM will cross the finish line for a chip time of 2:54:26, gun time of 2:57:09, or right around 1:37:09 after the start of the half marathon, which corresponds exactly to the finishing times of the HM runners he is photographed with.
What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is detailed photographic evidence of FM, bib concealed, lingering off the side of the course before jumping back in the race, a half mile from the finish line of a supposed near-record marathon performance. It's just as if Rosie Ruiz were caught on video.
This is absolutely the best sequence yet. Great work!
Frank - does this convince you that the charade is over? If not, you’re delusional.
Is he intentionally trying to cover his number with his hands when he spots the photographer?
Has anyone noticed that these photos are so similar to what happened on the KTLA live feed finish line video first posted on page 3 from the LAM 2018...just a few months after Long Beach 2017....maybe LAM should see these to consider DQing FM further than just 2019.
This is as good as it gets wrote:
This is absolutely the best sequence yet. Great work!
Frank - does this convince you that the charade is over? If not, you’re delusional.
Is he intentionally trying to cover his number with his hands when he spots the photographer?
Unbelievable sequence, enough for another DQ. It looks like he is trying to cover his number, you are right. Perhaps he realized that the photographer took a few photos just in the moment when he tried to fix the hidden number again. (Well, this kind of camouflage might work with the number but the person itself...)
I don’t believe he’s trying to cover his bib number. Quite the opposite, I think. He rolls it up, all mangled, under his shirt when he’s off course. I believe he’s trying to smooth it out to be recognizable so he gets “credit” for being photographed here and he wasn’t finished when the cameraman started shooting.
You guys are killing it. My job at this point is just to present the information on the site and push it to the RD’s.
At some point, I am hoping that the races just start removing him from their results. It’s obvious to me that Frank has not run a clean race in years.
I think the next big challenge would be to see what the earliest race is that we can find clear evidence of him cutting. At that point, we can logically make the leap that everything after that point is bogus.
More great work! Yes, get the high res to see the car and who might be with him. I bet it'll still be hard to tell. But maybe.
I think Frank needs a "CheatLinks" (instead of Athlinks) page. Can someone organize a list of his races, with links to the pages with evidence of how he cheated in each one. All this great work is getting buried into the pit of of this thread.
Also, for those with the sleuthing skills and lots of time, is any chance of finding similar pics of Frank off course for Phoenix 2019? I think that DQ matters the most, since now it stands as the fastest recorded marathon for 70+.
Frankly a great race wrote:
tl;dr version: I believe I've found image evidence (and potential video evidence) of someone that matches Frank's clothing being even with the lead pack at the 10KM mat of the 2019 LAM (even though he started after them), potentially to wait in the park and then cross the 10K timing mat at the right time.
Longer version: There appear to be at least three sets of photos taken at Echo Park, where the 10K timing mat is located and a very scenic location of the marathon. The pictures all appear before the timing mat. There are four photos in question and the live video stream of the race in question. Two very close photos, 133835 and 133836, photo 200668 and the most potentially powerful photo for me was photo 452056.
In photos 133835 and 133836, you can see a figure running in the background. I wish we had the video of the spectator on the left. The clothing all seems to match. At first I thought, "Why would Frank be at Echo Park right as the Elite men came through? Shouldn't he be further down the course or back at the 5K mat?" Then I realized he would need to be there to hit the 10K mat, which is at the end of the Echo Park route which can be proven using the live stream posted by LATV, the local TV affiliate. More on that in a second.
133835:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_133835.JPG133836:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_133836.JPGIn photo 200668, you can see a figure in the background on the right. Again, the clothing description appears to match. A high resolution photo here might prove the identify of this person.
200668:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_200668.JPGAnd finally, the most interesting photo that led me to more investigation, 452056. You'll notice the figure in the background on the left, crossing the road of a marathon in clothes that also match, and again running the wrong direction, towards Echo Park and not down the road. If you were to scroll through the photos, you would see that other runner in the background with the black diagonal stripe across her shirt is Ms. Cox. An example reference photo is just a few later at 452060.
452056:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_452056.JPGReference photo for Cox:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_452060.JPGThis photo was taken almost immediately after the elite men went through this area. It dawned on me that there might be live stream video footage from the race stream of Frank crossing the road which would mean he was running the first 10k at faster than the winning pace to get to that point (a far stretch from the 2:21 pace that even the crazy person in this thread has claimed he ran since Barno won this race is 2:11 in a very exciting finish - you should also watch it!), and then resting for a while in Echo Park before hitting the 10K mat. Unfortunately, the video footage posted on FB is simply too grainy for me to make anything out of. However, my connection is terrible so maybe one of you can. A request may be needed to be placed with KTLA for the footage (and potential additional footage that wasn't part of the stream). You could probably even tip them off if they want to scoop the story using their own footage... The time in question on the posted live stream is 1:26:00.
I don't want to get this post deleted, so to find the stream just search "2019 LA marathon live stream." The first link is a FB live stream posted on 3/26 and is 5:41:05. The Echo Park bit starts around 1:25:00.
Sorry if someone else has already posted something similar or caught any of these pictures. I've been sitting on them for a while and haven't had time to summarize the findings until tonight or go through the entirety of this thread for a while. I'll check back maybe Monday if there are any follow up questions.
Here is a broad summary photo:
https://i.ibb.co/CtjwYXQ/Summary-Picture.pngIn case this is all old news and I've missed it, here are some fun photos I also noticed:
Shh, he's my bandit pacer:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_178031.JPGI've made it through 10K! I've got all the energy in the world!
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_046190.JPGYou have no idea how long it took me to find these matching arm sleeves, shorts and socks. You should see my what else I'm wearing!
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_010687.JPGMy marathon sandals are acting up:
https://fp-zoom-us.s3.amazonaws.com/3017/3017_106338.JPG
Wow, I think having the video evidence of him being at the same location as the elite men would make for a potentially viral story. The lay person loves video evidence!
Also, great work to everybody in this thread.
I've created a program that could allow anybody to download a large amount of finisher pics for analysis so that not just us programmers are able to do this. Would anybody be interested in me posting the code and instructions? I can make it very fool proof.
Why would others help wrote:
My two cents worth. wrote:
It's almost incomprehensible that someone like Meza who's held the job and life positions he has would do this, and for years while surrounded by other professional medical types and coaches who must have known and probably even helped him. It's just hard to grasp, there's got to be a short book on it or a series of articles at the very least, although it seems to me the problem is getting all the details of those involved, those who knew and how it was done.
I have trouble imagining people helping (besides skeptics keeping quiet which I think is a natural reaction). Just doesn’t seem plausible to me from the perspective of what are his motives.
It seems like feeding his ego is the most plausible explanation and that requires people around him thinking he is legit.
Well, here's one possible motive. "Hello, Mr. Subordinate! I hear you're interested in the opening in X Division. I am close friends with Dr. Boss there. I could put in a good word for you if you'd like. Say, what are you doing a few weekends from now?"
...you guys are STILL talking about this Frank guy?
For F*** sake wrote:
...you guys are STILL talking about this Frank guy?
Three DQ's down and about 40 something left to clear off the books.
Derek, if you get on Athlinks and look up the name Frank Meza, then instead of looking by athletes ( his profile) ..look under the option of results, you will find FM’s earlier results. (and some other Frank Meza results that are not him) he ran a Disneyland HM that was like 1:45 that is probably an early test-cheat. Francisco was smoking his father in those days. ( he is either blindly loyal or has to know his father is not that fast) I would guess FM’s first significant cheat was Santa Clarita 2007. But the Disney HM preceded it.
Absolutely brilliant. Incredible work.
Roderick Powell wrote:
Derek, if you get on Athlinks and look up the name Frank Meza, then instead of looking by athletes ( his profile) ..look under the option of results, you will find FM’s earlier results. (and some other Frank Meza results that are not him) he ran a Disneyland HM that was like 1:45 that is probably an early test-cheat. Francisco was smoking his father in those days. ( he is either blindly loyal or has to know his father is not that fast) I would guess FM’s first significant cheat was Santa Clarita 2007. But the Disney HM preceded it.
Perhaps the incognito person from here that registered Frank's account at Athlinks could slide back in and claim the rest of the races he ran over the years. If Franks actually has lawyers working for him at this point the Athlinks profile could eventually go up in smoke.
Roderick Powell wrote:
Santa Clarita Marathon. Frank Meza’s first marathon. His BQ. The race he would certainly have finished second place in, had he run last year. Second place was 3:09. Pretty good for walking across the start line in warm-ups and behind 1,000 plus tightly packed runners, (80% HM runners) needing to pass most of them. From videos I saw on YouTube there are parts of the course where cutting the course would be hard, if not impossible. Pre-planning would be necessary. FYI it is hard to get photos from previous years. Just the most recent race. FM has certainly successfully cut this course 10 times. ( one was a HM) I have come to believe that Frank Meza has not run a mile in under 7:00 in at least 20 years. FM really limited his options with telling “the kids” about running Chicago. So, we should know the end of this story in the next 3 or 4 months, one would think.
He will NOT run Chicago or he'll do it super slow claiming an injury.
But...most likely it's a big NO as he now knows that too many people know 100% what he did and if questioned he'd be embarrassed to a whole new level.
It's over and I'd guess that most people who personally know him have seen this thread and are convinced that he cheated.
