50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Thanks.

1:30 slower is going to be around 38:30 for 10k, but being a couple of years older it age grades out to about 31:30 - which is faster than I ran as an open runner - so not a complete disaster.

I must admit, if 1:30 is right over 10k, I don't like the idea of losing 45 seconds over 5k in two years. I believe I was in sub 10 min shape for 3000m two years ago (did 3x1000m in 3:19, 3:20, 3:13), and have lost a ton of cruising speed from there. I have done 5x1000m in this cycle but, they were 3:49 down to 3:38 which is way off.

I didn't have a full meniscus removal, just a tear segment. I did run 19;30 six weeks later. It took a lot longer to stop limping, but over the last month to six weeks I would say it's no longer effecting my stride.

Haven't done a lot of speed work in this cycle, so I'm hoping when I get back to some quicker 200s and 400s the cruising speed might come come back.

Your zen quote is right on - I was already thinking what I might aim for after the 10k, and about a steeplechase comeback at 60 when the barriers go down (I'm a short-ass) - at least it's a good way to stay motivated, and avoid getting too nervous about the current goal!

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Week 223

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Greetings from outside Gatlinburg, 50+ers! My wife and I always wait until the weekend following Labor Day to enjoy our anniversary (if we're planning to travel, that is,) and thanks for the well-wishes, y'all! We're just being lazy and touristy this time around (ie-no big hikes,) but I did manage to get up and run a couple of mornings. The week was down a bit from last week, still hitting a relatively solid 31+ miles for me on 6 days. The log reads as such:

Sun: 5.0 easy (7:52 avg pace)

Mon: 5.0 moderate (7:12 pace)

Tue: 7.2 w/4x600, 4x400, 4x200, 4x100

Wed: 4.1 easy (8.13 pace)

Thur: off (classes and then traveling)

Fri: 4.0 hard! (7:53 avg moving pace) hills killed me

Sat: 6.0 (~7:25 pace "up", ~6:45 pace "down") 2% fairly steady grade.

Monday morning's run felt good, even at 90+% humidity, I felt comfortable going under 7 for the last 2.5 miles. Tuesday's track workout felt comfortably hard. Took 400m jog recovery after the 600's, but then 200m recovery after the 400's and 200's and just the turns for the 100m strides. After each set of 4, we did take an extra minute to recoup. Average times were 600s--2:17, 400s--86s, 200s--38s ,100s: untimed. Friday's run was down outside Gatlinburg, up in the mountain cottage roads. We're not home yet, so I haven't downloaded the Garmin data yet, but RunningAHEAD app tells me the 4-mile jaunt had 1000 feet of uphill climb (and of course 1000ft downhill, too)! I'm not used to 10% average grade running for an entire 4 miles; I had to stop several times up some of the steepest portions---simply gassed! Never been so happy to complete a 4-mile run! I decided to drive down from the hilltop resort and run up a trail-head access road Saturday morning. It ran along a creek and was a steady 2% grade in, and then I reversed at mile 3. It's fun when 6:45 is feeling smooth and easy coming back out!

Sorry for not engaging in the thread during the week. I've been a bit pre-occupied, but good to read some nice results and discussion.

Welcome, Royphillips! Those are some pretty solid times you're running.

Sorry, KP, that you're still ailing. The cost of laying it all out on the line, I guess.

@Cavorty. Sounds like you're doing pretty well under the circumstances. The age-grade tables say that, all else being equal, you should lose about 18s/10k/year. So over 1/2-a-minute can be accounted for just from age--weight/conditioning/weather will dictate the rest.

Blog from the New York Times(food for thought):

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/why-runners-get-slower-with-age-and-how-strength-training-may-help/?_r=0

OK, that's about all I have for this week. Feeling a bit lazy this last Sunday morning of our relaxing extended weekend; I'll probably wait until we get home before getting my run in today. Looking forward to reading about your-alls' weeks!

All the Best!

I’m envious of your trip to the Smokey’s lucKY. Pretty amazing that you can spend a significant amount of time over 6000 feet if you want to. That’s some hard hiking and even harder running.

I alternated 1.25 miles running with 3.5 miles on the elliptical this week. The elliptical paces were in the 7:15 range and the running in the 8:15 range. My right knee feels better running at 8 min pace than the 11 I was doing to keep my streak alive. I can now go up and down steps without pain and even get on my knees to do yardwork. So that’s a big improvement. Next week I’ll bump to 1.5 miles running and 4 miles Elliptical. I don’t enjoy the elliptical but I like that it works out different muscles than running, esp the hips. I DO use the arms. I understand now why bored elliptical users came up with the Elliptigo. But riding a bike in my neck of the woods is downright dangerous.

Have a great week everyone.

LucKY2b,

Man you're in God's country and right near close to my alma mater ASU, Boone NC. I do miss the blue ridge mtn morning runs; believe it or not.

OK so I aim to check with my good PT this week to find out if I have a herniated disc. A colleague described his injury symptoms identical to mine and he's off to MRI land to confirm. Anyone knowledgable for this? Feels like a trigger point pain/tightness middle left side of back (sometimes shortness of breath like a mild breath knocked out of you), wicked tight/painful gluteus medius especially sitting for more than an hour, strained hammy to the back of the knee (yet LMT swears it's not a muscle tear), and overall slight loss of power in the left leg.

Having said this... I did mange to enjoy the open xc race yesterday (4th) with my eldest son (3rd) before watching daughter run the JV race. Tillamook OR for the Ultimook XC - a 5k famous for a mud-pit at mile 1 that was like quicksand. Case in point took my daughter nearly 2 mins to get out of it! Then 2 river crossings (our nike trail shoes have zero traction on a river bottom). Took me 19:59 to reach 5k. How in the world does a HS kid run 16:30 for this course!?

I know I know you're thinking "KP - the Ultimook Fool".

Week 223: 6 hours 25 minutes in 7 runs.

45 mins Tue, Wed, Sun

48 mins Thu, Fri

1 hr 36 mins Sat

58 mins Mon with 4-mile race in 26:44 plus wu and cd

The NY Times link is food for thought indeed. The blogger's ideas are a bit weak, but the researcher's ideas are on the money. Just this morning on my easy run, I was noticing a lot more vertical bounce at the end of my run. I attribute this to the occasional all-out sprint I have been adding to my Sat long run. I am very conscious of trying not to run like an old man(*). On the other hand, injury lurks everywhere. Just this past Friday, I hurt my shoulder doing "work" which my 25-yo self would have laughed at.

(*) One of my favorite comments is "Are you going to let some old guy pass you?" They always speed up. The best reply so far is "I'm trying not to!"

@Rtype - These days riding a bike in any neck of the woods is downright dangerous.

@KP - Running in the front is less muddy?

KP - sounds like a fun race. Can you walk today?

What a beautiful day here for a run - temps in the 50s and low humidity for a change. I almost thought I was in Michigan! I was able to increase my mileage a little this week and I reduced my elliptical miles. I even ran some hills without any complaints from my hamstring. I'm cautiously hopeful that I'll be able to whip myself into shape for some Nov. and Dec. races. My week:

Mon: 5.0 Road - easy

Tue: 5.0 3 Elliptical/2 Treadmill

Wed: 6.0 Road: pushed the middle 2 miles + PT

Thu: off

Fri: 6.7 Road + PT

Sat: 6.5 Hills

Sun: 9 Fastest run of the week!

Total 38.2 miles

I'm going to continue building my base for a few more weeks before I add any intervals because I'm nervous about hurting myself again. At this point I'd rather be slow than injured. Have a great week everyone!

SCgal wrote:

At this point I'd rather be slow than injured.

"I'd rather be slow than injured" makes a great mantra. But, at what point does that change?

I had a very solid week of training - did a couple of low impact doubles once again and worked in weights and sprints. I took Friday off and my husband and I met another couple for dinner by the pool, complete with drinks of course. Well, not drinking for over a month plus sitting in the sun really kicked me in the head. I won't say how many cocktails I had, but it was more than 2 and less than 4. Plus lots of water. I should have been good, right? I had a night full of tossing and turning, and the next morning I woke up with a throbbing headache. Time to hurdle! I confessed the sins of the evening to my training partner but she said I looked surprisingly good during my workout. The effort level needed to produce "surprisingly good" was huge. I got home, showered, and went back to bed. What a wasted day. This morning was MUCH better. I surprised myself with how well I felt and how hard I pushed.

So yeah, I'm old. I can't drink (much) anymore!

Hope everyone continues to progress - have a great week!

I think I am making small incremental progress on my fitness. The week before this one I ran 28 miles with a 4 mi. XC race on Saturday. I was barely able to walk 4 miles for a recovery on Sunday after the race. This week I ran 38 miles with an 8K XC race yesterday and this morning I walked a mile and then ran 3 miles that went about 11:00, 10:00, 8:30. Now I have 3 weeks before the next race to pull the mileage back up a bit and allow the legs to recover more after 3 races in 4 weeks.

60 with a 5K on Labor Day. 3rd overall.

Progression on Thursday and a short speed session on Saturday. Best week in months, although extended heat wave is somewhat bothersome. Almost threw up, gagged, on the progression and again on Sunday's long run when it got into the high 80s.

lucKY2b wrote:

Blog from the New York Times(food for thought):

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/why-runners-get-slower-with-age-and-how-strength-training-may-help/?_r=0

FWIW, that blog was discussed on the thread below.

Here is my week:

M: swimming 1000m.

T: 4 miles / 7 miles.

W: 10 miles progression (7th-9th miles @ 7:30).

R: 7 miles.

F: 7 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 10.3 miles on a bike trail.

I ended up starting my tapering earlier than planned. I had a bad stomach ache on Wednesday night, and decided to have extra sleep on Thursday morning instead of my short easy run. Recovered well enough by Sunday to do my pre-race fitness check on a bike trail. (First outdoor running in weeks.) Easy pace (5:03/km) for the first 7km, the next 5km @ 4:54/km, the next 2km @ 4:43/km and the 16th km @ 4:33 (the last 480m@ 2:10).

My half marathon is next Sunday. This is the 3rd time we will be running this course, and I ran 1:34 under ideal conditions in 2013, and hobbled to 1:49 last year after having a serious hamstring issue on a hot humid day. It's probably safe to say my time will fall somewhere between those two, given there is such a huge range. (Hopefully much closer to the former than the latter.)

Kind of a lousy week. Never really felt good on any run. Noted in my log 'Heavy Legs' several times... Anyhow, 44.8 miles, no workouts, two races both at 87.6%...

M: 8 miles with 5k race in 17:31. 2nd overall, 2nd Master, 1st 55-59, 1st Age Graded

T: 9 miles steady. Hit 2000 miles for the year tonite...

W: 6.7 miles easy @ 7:10

Th: 7.1 miles easy

F: 4 miles easy

S: 10 miles with 5 mile race in 28:43. 7th overall, 2nd Master, 1st 55-59, 1st Age Graded

S: Off

I did have kind of a hard few days at work, demo'ing a kitchen that I'm remodeling. Heavy cabinets, on my knees... Not really the way to prepare properly for a race... Maybe that's what made me feel sluggish, or the 70%+ dew points all week.

This week we've got 3xmile at 5k goal pace on Tuesday, then maybe a 3 mile tempo Saturday.

Have a good week!

Dave

Possibly mild allergies. I used to think I did not have any at all. This past week I've had the ghost of a headache days in a row, resting HR up 5 beats, unexplained quad cramps on an easy run. Since I get similar symptoms every fall, without exception, I eventually concluded allergies.

I decided to push on toward 4 Peaks in early November. It will be my 30th year at this event.

I had given serious thought to a few weeks off but will keep going then reassess after 4 Peaks.

My last 2 weeks.

Mon. 31st Aug. 30 min paddle on the lake. 36 min spin around town on the bike. A couple of 30 min walks in and out of work.

Tue. A couple of 30 min walks in and out of work.

Wed. 20 km mtn bike with 250 m of elevation gain in 1 h 25 m.

Thu. Early shuffle on hilly trails 2.4 km 70 m of elevation gain in 20 min.

Later on a 7.3 km trail run up Pianta's Hill then down to Viewing Rock and return. 215 m of elevation gain 48 mins. 7th km 5.03 last 300 at 4.47 pace.

Fri. Arrived in Launceston Tasmania around lunch time. A couple of hours hiking around Cataract Gorge. Evening run in Deloraine, hilly 7 km in 40 mins 120 m of elevation gain.

Sat. Finished a hectic day with a comfy 8 km trot in 44 mins in the Central Highlands, 100 m of elevation gain.

Sun. A steep 5 km run in 31 mins in Queenstown, 185 m of elevation gain,.

Mon.6 steep kms in Queenstown inc 200 wooden stairs, 220 m of elevation gain in 44 mins tricky descents, wet and slippery.

Tue. A fairly energetic 1 h 40 m hike which finished with 240 wooden stairs, I couldn't resist running up them. Late run along the Derwent River in New Norfolk, 5.2 km in 28 mins.

Wed. More stairs when visiting the Gordon Dam. Out in the evening I ran up New Norfolk's lookout point a couple of times, 8 kms in 48 mins. 224 m of elevation gain, the 1st climb a steep scramble gaining 70 m in 200 m of distance. 6 th and 8th kms in 4.46 and 4.48.

Thu. Out to the East Coast, we hiked to Wineglass Bay about 4 or 5 steep kms. I snuck out for an evening jog around Bicheno 3.1 hilly kms 96 m of elevation gain 19 mins.

Fri. Out early am around Bicheno started as a hike along the rocks then ran up and down 2 rocky lookouts 5 rocky kms in 45 m 140 m of elevation gain.

Sat. Beach walking. Flew home in the evening.

Sun. 21 steep kms with 4 x over the top of the McIvor Range. 577 m of elevation gain 2 h 22 m. I was cooked by 19 km and just shuffled down Pianta's Hill to finish.

After 3 weeks of slow shuffling (11:30 miles for 60+ minutes) protecting Achilles, I ran with some pace for the first time and felt very fresh in two separate runs closing yesterday in a 7:16 mile in my 6th mile of a 2x5K. Also ran 7 miles east on trails with my daughter this week. Achilles was feeling a little weird toward the end but ran fast again two days later, so I may be out of the woods.

That running fast thing is all relative of course. Fast compared to how I was running in April when 10:30 avg for more than 3 miles required a day of rest.

I got excited enough to look for a fall 5k. Goal at the beginning of the year was 22 min for a 2:40 21st century PR that dates back to just prior to rupturing my calf last summer and having to shut it down.

Right now I'm sitting on 23:06 from mid July (85', sun, and 80% humidity) for a 1:40 PR. Fall MN temps should bring another PR. Honestly, I think I will be pretty happy with the year to be mid 22s.

As I e joked earlier this week, that time doesn't beat my 14 year old daughter, but I can still smoke her 11 year old sister.

Finally, 11 year old has her first official cc race this week, Thursday and Saturday. 1 milers. She won her intra squad race making up all of 80 yards in the last 300. The look of fear on her face at the starting line was priceless.

Cheers

Ken

Reboot runner wrote:

She won her intra squad race making up all of 80 yards in the last 300.

Wanting it bad is a key talent.

Reboot runner wrote:

As I joked earlier this week, that time doesn't beat my 14 year old daughter, but I can still smoke her 11 year old sister.

Ok... now that was funny! Take the positives where we can!

Dave

So it's long past Labor Day, and much to catch up on. Sure hope KP does not have back/disc problems, and is only from long hours traveling/sitting. KP, Jane stepped down from being Store Manager, and is now Asst. Mgr. and now has much more zest/energy for running, so she walked ran for about 9.5 miles last Sunday, the most in probably 2 years or maybe more (she was tired by Sunday night!). Since Garry sold the stores, she's had much more work and so it's nice that she realized that it was time for her to let someone younger be the SM.

We both ran a LD 5 km, certified, in the rain and with lightning nearby, she in 23:28 and me in 24:07. She was faster than the Royals Run 5 km of a couple weeks before, me the same time, and on a flat course. We have another 5 km this weekend, but it's a hilly one. She finished 2nd in a.g., me in 5th. Next year won't be easier when I'm in 65-69, it'd only move me up to 3rd.

We sent our money in for tickets to the Oly Trials in Eugene next summer, too, so really excited to be back and get some lovely runs in on Pre's Trail.

Oh, and our mantra when we have aches and pains: "Just to run", not fast, not far, not competitively, just to run.

After 85-90000 miles since 1977..Used to race pretty well for my build..stocky, fireplugs

But, had a passion for running. 17:06/35:57/58:42 for ten..1:19.59 half

Averaged 60mpw for 20 of the years.

Now, the more I train, the slower I get.

I have chunky women wearing tu-tu's passing me now.

Im 60.

I just can't quit though. I like the feeling still and the post race socializing.

I have had 41-40-37 mile last 3 training weeks.

1100 miles for the year so far.

Cant wean myself off a knee brace.

I have had 2 surgeries and 6 epidurals since 2009.

Keep going! One fun thing is, that I am in a club where you can volunteer and race.

I have found that unloading trucks, setting up the starting line and registration area is a perfect warm up.