ningkaiyang wrote:
Man in yellow at 8:40 lol
Just found him after you hinted cutty sark
still can't tell what shoes dude was wearing - looks like Adidas adios pro?
Colorway looks similar like Adios Pro 4. Hard to tell.
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No way! We’re all following a guy with that running form????
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obturator wrote:
Colorway looks similar like Adios Pro 4. Hard to tell.
Oh!!! Yeah, that's exactly it. I just saw the tiny black stripes extending down a little bit but was wondering that there weren't any Adidas where the stripes blended with the shoe so well. Turns out was looking at the wrong color way, that's almost definitely it.
Yall Gonna Hate This wrote:
No way! We're all following a guy with that running form????Bro's the GOAT because of it 😂🙏
I have to admit it's a bit crazy that he's going that quick with that little heel lift, doesn't look like 5:30 pace at all. I'm REALLLY wondering how he's going to do in the 1500m he has planned coming up, now.
I've been following the SirPoc approach for a good while and PRed across the board in distances 5k and up to the half during this first build, but I wonder how I'd do relative to my year old PR mile of 4:32. I'm going to run a 1600m DMR leg in a few weeks so we'll see there, but it should be basically competitionless, so kinda bad.
Anyway my distance events following NSA have slowly caught up to my mile time's VDOT, and SirPoc still probably has like 50 seconds on me in a 5k (giving him 14:50 on a track), so it's hard to imagine he isn't quicker than me in the mile too, but it's still crazy to think about. If SirPoc is sub 4:12 in the 1500m (my mile converted) without any speedwork then color me impressed. If the VDOT scores still stay in-line across down to the mile and SirPoc runs sub 4:00 in the 1500m with that form, I might go all-in and never do 10x400 at mile pace again. But surely there's gotta be some limit to subT training.... right? 😂
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How I improved my 100m world record using the Sirpoc method - Usain Bolt in 2026
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should we follow you instead? what is your contribution to the running community? Absolute clown
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analogkid wrote:
sub elite runner wrote:
Of course. I am a probably beyond hobby jogger level with a pretty impressive 2:37. Everyone I know around my level which isn't many, I implements SOME sort of vo2 workouts, even for the marathon. All the best plans have it and it of course makes up part of the puzzle that is training. The top coaches don't say hills pay the bills for no reason ;)
So go run hills then. No one is stopping you.
Hmm, I know a guy who does hill repeats pretty frequently and he runs pretty fast, couldn't quite remember his name though...
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He said "we're" not "you're" so he's following sirpoc too. Pretty sure it was a joke
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Yall Gonna Hate This wrote:
How I improved my 100m world record using the Sirpoc method - Usain Bolt in 2026Yeah, how about some 10 x 50m at sub T pace ;-)?
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.70 -
sirpoc84 wrote:
I'll make this post short as I can so it doesn't get lost in my long dialogues. There is still nothing special inherently still about sub threshold. Other than it provides the biggest opportunity to impact load on the body in a way you can do regularly, but still be meaningful.
The accumulation and aggregate of what I do, is probably more than most training systems, but without the high tariff of the peaks and troughs and the really hard days or weeks, that then need the recovery I don't really need. Essentially that's it. You can get a lot out of it with just understanding that. There's a ton more I could write two books on let alone one, if you wanted to get into the weeds of finding the extra I worry about.
The "Norwegian Singles method" aspect the internet has coined it, has probably created a lot of the confusion of what it isn't, rather than what it is. I guess that just stuck as this is the original thread I happened to choose to post in.
I genuinely think still most of the picture , maybe 90%+ of the benefits of any training, is made up from the impact of load itself. The composition of training has very little effect in the grand scheme, especially if you still have headroom to get fitter without having reached dimishined returns. That's where training might be different for full time athletes or pros as the low hanging fruit starts to dry up and you need other ways to eek out some improvement.
Hopefully Coggan is reading this and I think I'm roughly quoting him and coming around to this way of thinking - put the work in and let the physiology sort out itself.
Re: MP stuff idea.
I've done 5+ sessions sweetspot in a week cycling, when coming back from winters off before settling back into a normal 3 sessions a week on the bike. Whether one could genuinely actually manage MP slightly broken for 20-30 a day as their base rather than what I do, who knows. As far as I know, nobody has tried it over a long period of time - which is what you need if you are assessing the impact of load. Hard2find wouldn't even try it and he's a human guinea pig, so that alone tells you it's probably not a good idea other than on paper. But if someone ever does for 6+ months, report back.
Interestingly, i read recently an interesting paper which concludes i quote:
'Therefore, training load (volume x intensity) is a robust predictor of changes in mitochondrial content and ̇VO2max.'
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If there is anything that this thread has taught us, it's that runners get caught up in doing what they think they should do to get fast, because they were previously best known training methods but have been surpassed.
I think we are at a crossroads. This thread represents probably the best new thinking for an amateur on reduced hours for the most part and double T likely is that for the pros. Obviously there might be slight individual variation.
Of course all training is still training, but I truly think for each time range you have to train there is probably an optimal way. It would take a lot to convince one of a better way on that mid range of hours, like sirpoc does. Also, if you are here on LRC, the chances are you run a good number of hours but probably aren't on double figures in hours.
The other thing you may as well just forget about, is running form. I've always thought it's a bit of a red herring going down that road, but let's be honest I think we can put that one to bed now also. If your form is unconventional but you don't get injured, does it even matter one iota? If you can shuffle your way to a 2:24 that's enough for me.
Does anyone know when he's running a 1500? I'm going 4:04. I don't want to go silly but I also don't want to look like the guys who went 2:37 for a marathon and now have to change their usernames.
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I mean the thread almost seems made up. First marathon, 7-8 hours average a week with a peak week of 120km. 41 years old. Cadence of about 350. Pint the day before and mars bars for breakfast and runs 2:24 and is probably in the pub whilst Felton is still jogging it in whilst refusing to believe this training method is a thing.
No wonder this dude is literally the hobby joggers working class hero. We need 'Do the sirpoopy shuffle" t shirts. But the that's the best thing about this dude, he isn't trying to sell us sh*t.
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Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen wrote:
Hmm, I know a guy who does hill repeats pretty frequently and he runs pretty fast, couldn't quite remember his name though...
Great, have at it. Again, we need to not fall into the constant desire to scale down what the elites are doing. Sure, hill repeats are a basic tenet of running and likely provide some measure of contribution to fitness, the magnitude of which is probably only determined by your own measure. So, again, have at it.
What is being augmented here is a way for regular, everyday runners - WITH LIMITED TIME - to utilize a very simplistic scheme to maximize aerobic capacity without tremendous variance from day-to-day and achieve consistency through the ability to recover easily.
Would hill repeats have an additive or synergistic effect? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly one should not overlook specificity in that if you're training for a hilly course, then you should almost certainly train some on hills. But is the contribution worth it to implement a separate training focus? That's up to the reader to decide. I live in an area where hills, of any significance, are an extreme scarcity so my hand is kind of forced.
No one is trying to supplant Daniels/Pfitz/Hansons/etc. But, clearly, the results seem to be speaking for themselves and it simply represents another alternative for which the individual is free and clear to choose.
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analogkid wrote:
Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen wrote:
Hmm, I know a guy who does hill repeats pretty frequently and he runs pretty fast, couldn't quite remember his name though...
Great, have at it. Again, we need to not fall into the constant desire to scale down what the elites are doing. Sure, hill repeats are a basic tenet of running and likely provide some measure of contribution to fitness, the magnitude of which is probably only determined by your own measure. ...
Why not just run hills at sub t? Benefits of running hills include lower impact forces and stronger muscle hypertrophy stimulus. I also find that running hills gives me a psychological boost in a race when I come up on a hill on the course.
Just reduce pace from the classic hills workouts and carry on. These don't have to be exclusive concepts. Time at sub t is time at sub t, no matter the angle you're at relative to the Earth's core.
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I think messing around with hills would be a good wrinkle for the reasons you mentioned. The purists would argue that you can't get as much aerobic load in the same amount of time (assuming you have to job down the hill) and even if you could, the mechanical load would make it a lot harder to recover from.
60' Sub T Session 10' warmup, 10 x 3' @ subT / 1' recovery , 10 cooldown = 30' Sub T, 30' EZ
60' Hills sub T session 10' WU, 9 x 2' uphill @ subT / 2.5' downhill, 10' CD = 20' SubT. 40' EZ
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Not Low T, Sub T wrote:
I think messing around with hills would be a good wrinkle for the reasons you mentioned. The purists would argue that you can't get as much aerobic load in the same amount of time (assuming you have to job down the hill) and even if you could, the mechanical load would make it a lot harder to recover from.
60' Sub T Session 10' warmup, 10 x 3' @ subT / 1' recovery , 10 cooldown = 30' Sub T, 30' EZ
60' Hills sub T session 10' WU, 9 x 2' uphill @ subT / 2.5' downhill, 10' CD = 20' SubT. 40' EZ
I've wondered about doing a subT session alternating up and down hill. Running downhill quickly is a pretty common technique for ultra trail runners to improve muscle durability, which would be beneficial for most in the marathon. But it also comes with increased risks. I might try incorporating it one day a month or something.
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i walk down backwards between my later reps to both reduce impact and keep the heart a teeny bit elevated (it's hard for me to balance walking backwards down the hill near me, which is very steep). theres kenyans who obviously arent doing NSA who'll just go up n down a big hill repeatedly, im told
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uppydowny wrote:
i walk down backwards between my later reps to both reduce impact and keep the heart a teeny bit elevated (it's hard for me to balance walking backwards down the hill near me, which is very steep). theres kenyans who obviously arent doing NSA who'll just go up n down a big hill repeatedly, im told
The people like the Kenyans who hit hills hard all day also have nothing else to do all day but rest and recover in their ice baths and massages.
I think many of the masses copy Kenyans, Ingebritsens and other pros thinking they've found the secret sauce but they don't have the ability or time to recover like them and end up injured or overtraining.
NSA seems to have that balance of a scaled down version of what has been successful for pros but without killing yourself for 12 hours a week
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RunnerRunner425 wrote:
The people like the Kenyans who hit hills hard all day also have nothing else to do all day but rest and recover in their ice baths and massages.
I think many of the masses copy Kenyans, Ingebritsens and other pros thinking they've found the secret sauce but they don't have the ability or time to recover like them and end up injured or overtraining.
NSA seems to have that balance of a scaled down version of what has been successful for pros but without killing yourself for 12 hours a week
Totally agree with this. If you are a hobby jogger and looking at how a pro is training over what sirpoc has done for not just this marathon build, but any distance , then you are probably barking up the wrong tree in afraid. Take this from someone who has now implemented this method for almost a year having slogged away what looking back is clearly sub optimal training in the past for my hours available and age. I include hills and vo2 max in that. I'm faster. I'm stronger. I'm hitting PBs.
Of course it's nice to post on Strava with cool looking runs like "hills pay the bills". Of course you can run hills sub threshold, but 99% of the time when people come here to talk about hills all they really mean is they want to start putting the cherry on top of their training with the X factor stuff that quite frankly, they aren't ready for or will probably produce less gains than staying ok the sub t train.
Of course I don't think anyone is saying there is a best way to train, sirpoc himself has never even said that. But there's probably a way to structure and spend your precious minutes and hours you have to train and I would definitely agree with what others have said, this is it for now.
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Not Low T, Sub T wrote:
I think messing around with hills would be a good wrinkle for the reasons you mentioned. The purists would argue that you can't get as much aerobic load in the same amount of time (assuming you have to job down the hill) and even if you could, the mechanical load would make it a lot harder to recover from.
60' Sub T Session 10' warmup, 10 x 3' @ subT / 1' recovery , 10 cooldown = 30' Sub T, 30' EZ
60' Hills sub T session 10' WU, 9 x 2' uphill @ subT / 2.5' downhill, 10' CD = 20' SubT. 40' EZ
I'm fortunate that I have some nice long steep climbs in my area. My favorite route at the moment is up a mile long hill with about 7.5% grade to get to a 1k flat loop around a pond at a park. So I'm able to keep the aerobic load up and get a fair amount of climb in without having to pause for shuffling back down the hill.
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