50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Hi Gang,

I was in Atlanta last week volunteering for Peachtree in the Elite Tent. That turned out to be the perfect place to be as it poured all morning. Despite the bad weather, it was fun to be at the race and to meet the US team. Shalane Flanagan was the captain and Bobby Curtis and Tyler Pennel ran as well. There were 56,000 runners - the banana pile at the end of the race was enormous!

Since I didn't start running until a few years ago, I haven't noticed any big change in how I feel. My toes had arthritis before I began to run and they still do. My knees used to hurt if I walked 18 holes on a golf course and now they don't. Maybe we need to imagine how much worse we would feel if we didn't run than compare the way we feel now to when we were younger. I normally don't feel the general fatigue and soreness that Dave described. When I do, for me it usually comes from stress at work. That's when I know I need to pull back and get more sleep, cut the miles or intensity, and be good to myself.

My current problem is my ongoing struggle with my sciatic nerve. I've moved my workouts to the elliptical and I'm being diligent about my stretching and strengthening exercises. I'm finally able to feel my glute firing but I'm frustrated by my slow improvement. Here were my workouts this week:

M: 4.4mi (50 min - 15X1H: /1E)

T: 4.5 (50 min easy + strength class)

W: 6.2 (4.2 mi elliptical, 2 treadmill)

T: 5.4 (30 min elliptical, 2X10min treadmill)

F: 6.0 (50 min - 3X10H/5E)

S: (50 min biking, 10min treadmill)

S off

I was encouraged by a post Spikez made a few years ago about the same issue so I'm hopeful that eventually the work I'm putting in will pay off in being able to run pain free. I've only got 10 days until I'm supposed to run at Nationals and I'm not too optimistic about that deadline!

Happy running!

My long and easy recovery week has gone quite well. 58 miles -

M- 8 hills 11:05/mi

T- 8 hills 10:15/mi

W- 8 hills 10:31/mi

Th- 8 hills 10:02/mi

F- 8 hills 9:46/mi

S- 9 hills 10:04/mi

Su- 9 hills 9:34/mi

Monday and Tuesday my calves felt really tight and ready to cramp at any moment.

Wednesday and Thursday the calves were better but the right ITB felt sore and tight at the knee.

Friday the right ITB felt sore at the hip.

Saturday everything felt okay but fatigued.

This morning the legs felt a little bit better.

So, at this point another week of long and easy is the plan, with it going up to 9 miles a day. I do have to travel to Portland, OR on Saturday morning (and stay until Tue AM) which may derail Saturday's run or at least shorten it, but the variation from routine will be fun. If anyone has good suggestions for routes (scenic trails preferred) in the Lake Oswego area I'd love to hear them.

As far as reasons for running and racing at this point in my life, I share your sentiment L2B. I like the feel of running fast and pushing myself to test my limit. I love the training process and getting outside almost every day. For me running has also been, and still is, a connection point and common interest with my kids (who now are in their mid-30s). Getting out and running trails on a weekend with them is one of the best parts of my life. I consider myself truly blessed to not have any real orthopedic problems at this point in my life, and intend to continue to take advantage of that for as long as I can.

^ posted under my registered name above because I just finished my run and appear to be about 20 IQ points down due to carbohydrate depletion :>)

Went from peaking quite nicely towards Senior Games in MN to 'down for the count' thanks to an untimely fall off a ladder...broke my dang wrist just 48 hours after an age 59 seasonal 800 best of 2:36.04 and merely 6 hours after buying non-refundable plane tickets to Mpls/St Paul...waaaaaaaaaahhhh ;)

Better now then immediately upon entering that next age group says the aspiring philosopher inside my head... at any rate, I told my bride that I was going to cover myself in bubble wrap next year for the two months prior to World Masters T&F Championships in Perth, Australia...she replied, "go right ahead... I am going to hang out with my girlfriends on the East Coast all summer... good luck"

BTW, Kevin Paulk won his heat in that Senior Games 800 yesterday and has the fastest qualifier going into today's finals...sending him just a little over two minutes worth of speed vibes ;)

Managed a butt slow 11 mile crawl yesterday and 39 sloth-paced miles for the week...wishing you all a fine week of health and fitness...oh, and I urge you to avoid climbing on ladders at all cost.

your pal,

MF

Thanks for the well wishes for today's 800 friends. I'll get a post race report out later. Staying inside student union in the cool AC.

Oh I cannot wait to chime in about "Dead Legs". Could be a good band name. And how for years now those runs we used to call easy days, or recover runs, are DEFINITELY the crappiest feeling, why bother, am I really this insane, and are people pointing and laughing at me like they did in 1972 when I first started?!!!!! There are a few things to try. As a guy nearing 100k miles to join MF and a Masters Middle Distance born-again for 15 years in a row, I may have some advice. But please help remind me to exercise my own suggestions too. Know what I mean?

OK I gotta take a nervous visit to the crapper.

53 for the week and maybe even feeling better. Actually did some workouts.

On Thursday did 3X2 min, 2X 4:30 at 8 to 10K effort with 1 to 2 min recovery;

Saturday 8 mile run/hike at 12-13,500 feet; 4 mile shake out later;

Sunday fartlek/tempo with 8X 1 min at 5K effort with short recovery and 10 min threshold.

MikeF - What a disappointment for you! If you need bubble wrap I've got a big supply :-)

Go Kp!

OK, today's workout done! The newbie didn't show so I sprinted 600 stairs and did 3x120 at close to 90% effort. I wanted to do 5x120 but last night's bottle of merlot was doing me no favors. Am I the only one who has dietary issues that affect the next day's workout? When I was younger I swear I could digest rocks and nothing affected a workout. Now I have to beware of heartburn and "wine legs." Then again, I wasn't drinking wine as a high schooler and collegiate!! I pushed through today's workout but it was a challenge. I will gladly take a rest day tomorrow.

Waiting for KP's race report....I'm sure he killed it.

Week 214: 5 hours 12 minutes in 7 runs, 6 @39 mins, Saturday @1hr18. Somewhere between 35 and 40 miles, but I don't know exactly, and I'm not worried about it.

RE Dave's question, personally I am feeling great. So great that Tuesday I did a real workout for the first time in a year, 3x steep hill (2:30 up, 1:30 down, 1:00 jog interval), followed by 10 min hard tempo. Yesterday I did a hard run up a big hill here in Maine. At the steepest part I was panting, but I timed the effort just right so was able to transition to a jog at the crest, downhill back home. The rest of my days were super easy.

No question what I am doing now is not going to get me in trouble, but like Rtype I want to do something in the 5K so there is some danger ahead.

lucKY2b wrote:

So I see we've got a little soul searching going on...

Ok I admit...I'm the instigator of the soul searching, doom & gloom, woe is me, the world is going to end if I can't run fast comments...After my soul searching and everyones comments I decided that at our age, the acceptance of dragging my ass thru the days between workouts, is all part of the running game! Positive contributions from here on out...

So with that being said, I took Friday off feeling just wup'd. Cleaned house instead. Woke up Saturday feeling fresh, healed and fast. The heel pain was nearly nonexistent this weekend; running was good.

Ended up with 51 miles for the week, My first interval workout in a month, and a pretty good 10 miler for the first time in forever.

M: 9.2 easy

T: 9 miles w/4x800 2:41.1,2:45.7,2:40.9,2:40.0 & 4x400 78.0,78.3,78.2,79.3 w/400 jog rest

W: 8 miles easy

Th: 6.6 miles easy @ 7:37/mi

F: off

S: 10 miles @ 6:39 7:07 first mile; 5:56 last

S: 8 miles easy

Have a good week,

Dave

Good question by Dave! I am just now popping out the backside of the longest stretch of injury/pain I have experienced since I have been running. So the answer is - much better! I am only doing 1 workout / week with my training group. Running easy the rest of the time and taking 1 day off a week. Riding my bike, swimming, yoga and stretching/rolling/PT exercises, icing, heat pad. All of it is paying off.

I wonder if the 70 - 80 mpw with 2 or more hard sessions of running over the past 2 - 3 years took a toll and I just had to give my body a break. I am still sore after a long run or hard effort, but feel good after shorter/easier runs. I can tell you that I feel things at 52 that I did not feel at sub-50.

But even though it hurts and I may have periods of injury, I still really like to run. And really enjoy the camaraderie. I would miss my running friends if I stopped. Plus, it helps me keep up with our kids when skiing, hiking, etc.

Had a good week:

Mon: 6 mi with 5 x 800 m at 5K effort (3:30 down to 3:27) and calisthenics in between repeats with my training group.

Tues: 8 mi easy

Wed: 6 mi easy

Thurs: 9 mi not as easy as I should have done it! Ran with one of my speedier friends.

Fri: OFF

Sat: 15 mi with 3 hill repeats (super easy) with training group

Sun: 5 mi easy

Hot and humid here. Wish I was in CO preparing for Pikes Peak with CO57! Next year I will be there!

SCgal wrote:

Maybe we need to imagine how much worse we would feel if we didn't run than compare the way we feel now to when we were younger.

I second this notion. And actually, I do not have to "imagine" since I was sedentary for most of my 30s, and in a pretty bad shape. One thing I have learned since my last injury is that I became better at "listening to my body." Now I detect small signs of trouble better than I used to. One change I made is to run the easy days even slower than before. Right now, I am running "hard days easy, and easy days even easier." Another change I will make is to space out my workouts more. (Right now, I am not doing any real workout, but I will be starting soon.)

M: swimming (1000m).

T: 8 miles.

W: 3 miles / 6 miles.

R: 3 miles / 6 miles.

F: 8 miles.

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 13 miles.

I did all my runs on treadmill, since it was too hot to run outside on Sunday morning. Monday's swimming is an attempt at "active recovery."

I'm like you Dave--I struggle a lot of mornings. Because of my work schedule, I need to run in the mornings, anywhere from 8AM-10AM to be done before I go in to work. On the weekends I don't end up running until later. My times are much slower than yours, so its disheartening to get out there and start some days at 9 minute pace for the first mile on an easy run. Lets face it, at 55, things are only gonna get slower as we age into our 50's. I think a select few like you will be able to ward that off longer than the rest of us....

Steve

I wound up last week with 48 miles. Highlights included a 9 miler last Wednesday of which I incorporated a 4 mile tempo run into it after a 3 mile warmup. Had wanted to get progressively faster, but I took the other route. Splits were 6:38, 6:42, 6;49, 6:48. That was also my long run of the week.

On Sunday I hooked up with two friends on an 80 degree day at the track. Wanted to do 400 meter repeats at a controlled pace with only 100 meters recovery in between--a very slow jog. I had hoped to initially run 88-92, but the conditions weren't gonna make it happen that day. First one was a 95, and then all the rest were 92-94. And only got 10 in, whereas I had hoped to do 12 but it was that hot on the track that we all struggled.. I did 16x400 of these a year ago, but in cooler conditions.

Anyways, still nursing a sore left hamstring, but I'm able to run on it. Probably running this morning, and then taking a couple of days off until the weekend. I think my body is begging for some extra rest at this point, and with a busy work schedule over the next two days, its just as well. Happy running people, more later....

Steve

GreteHund wrote:

Hot and humid here. Wish I was in CO preparing for Pikes Peak with CO57! Next year I will be there!

That'd be good. It's daunting but love the mountains!

We'll see how it goes this year. I'd like to get up to the high country more but the logistics this summer are limiting.

I've felt much better this past 6-7 days than I had since late April. Have had to back off on miles a bit so 50+/- seems okay. Lame by letsrun standards but at 57 I get to make up my own schedule and way of doing things.

So as far as the conversation of not feeling great goes, well it's all relative too.

Going through boxes of old stuff the other day I found about 3/4 of my college age training logs--hand written calendars on typing sheets or notebook paper from 1977, part of 77 and 78, and all of 1980. Back then I put in a lot of miles and a lot of interval training, and see so much wasted effort. While at school it was often 70-90 mile weeks with 3-5 interval sessions and a race every week. Off season 70-110 mile weeks. I raced better in the off season. Anyway, college PRs were 9:43 2 mile, 16:14 5000, and just 27:02 for 8K XC. But in the off season 32:54 for 10K and 1:09:14 for 20K. So I trained great (i.e., left my best running in the workouts) but raced inconsistently, often poorly.

Did much better post-college (5K improved by a minute, 8K by 1:30), off of less mileage and fewer hard workouts. Rather than relying on peers and coaches I found my own way.

Fast forward to now at mid-pushing late 50s. I'm doing way better, relatively speaking. Age grade PRs in college were in the 80-82% range. Post college 83-85%, and now in the 86-89% range. The running itself is harder, some days just getting out the door and running 6-8 miles is tough, but compared to my peers I'm hanging tough. And most importantly, getting out and running up a 13,000 ft is fun and exhilarating. I'm enjoying what I'm doing.

OK that was fun - National SR Games 800/1500 in St Paul...

Great venue at St Thomas University. Outstanding Athletes ... a few old and a lot of new friends for life. Hot & Humid weather 90's at 1:30pm race time three days in a row with some hot wind. So glad Oregon has had a fluke of a summer heat wave to acclimate.

Sat 800 Sem-Final was stressful. Since I was in heat 2 and they took 8 fastest times to final (go figure) I panicked to make the cut when the track clock at the bell read 75!! Turns out it was off - WAY off. I hammered the backstretch to win heat 2 but clock said 2:24 - on the bubble. WTF? And then the jumbo showed me finishing 8th in 3:23. WTF? Had to hike to the crows nest to make a small claim/protest. 2:16 something said the later beam camera.

Sun 800 FINAL was wild! My race plan was simple. One plan; one move. No matter how fast or pedestrian the first 550 meters go. 72 at the bell. 2nd place. Meet record holder blasted by with 250 to go. Jumped on him until my big move at 3k steeple start line. Held lead to 100 to go; found another great or two to go back and forth down the stretch with Tom Cawley from Jersey. tom & I have raced like this before and sure enough he got me again. A mean lean at the later to take a fine Gold by .06 sec. What i was jacked about was our 72-62 negative splits. Yeeeeaaah!

Mon 1500 FINAL was brutal. Since all Athletes doubled there were no secret race plans. Meet record holder Jeremy made us pay. Took it out at the gun with a 69. I worked the entire first 400 just to get on his shoulder. 800 split 2:24 - I think. All I know is it hurt and I had to dig deep mentally and say over and over "one more lap... just hang on for one more lap". I kept some confidence when I clipped his heel a few times on lap 3. "One more lap!" And F-You Doubting Devil on both my shoulders telling me how bad this hurts; why are you doing this? Drop out! You already ran a great 62 in that 800. F-You Devil! So all of a sudden we clear the 1200 mark and here comes my 250 to go 800 plan kick line again. I blasted to the lead and, I confess, glanced over my shoulder once or twice with 100 to go. Hit the line for the GOLD in 4:34.82. That's a big deal for me for it's a seasonal masters PR AND as fast as I ran more than 2 years ago.

All in all a great masters track meet for us M55 middle distance runners. Exactly what I needed with 3 weeks of speed work to go before boarding a plane to France.

Thanks for reading and, most of all, for your fellowship of support. Special gratefulness to our #1 fan Mike Fanelli for positive words of confidence.

KP

KP... That's one of the better race reports I've ever read!

Nicely done...

Dave

Long time listener, first time poster in this thread.

Started running again 2 years ago after 25 years off.

Age 51. 5K 23:06.

Ruptured a calf last summer just as I was starting to really get in shape. After ramping up to running 6 days a week for last 3 months at paces similar to old guy II, I similarly have been slowed by hinky calves. This time I decided to not push through (and get injured like last year)bso I've only run 3 miles every other day for last 9 days until yesterday's 6.

Mostly wanted to say WOW! on the 4:34 and the 62 close of that 800.

Cheers

RE: Dead Legs

Every word from several of you rings true. I can't remember the last time I had an "easy" run. Training pace pushing 8 minutes after years at 7:00. This is year no. 40 without much of any break (current age 54). Looking at 60K career miles in a couple months so not big miles but typically 30-40 per week for the full 40 years. Just passed career race no. 700 (which was a 5:26 road mile) and ran 5K cross meet last night in a slowly dying 20:30. I really don't like to take days off but I do take very easy days. Have always run in the afternoon because of work and coaching hs xc/track so I try to run with the kids when I can. Just can't keep up any more. Will retire from my full-time job of 30 years (engineer) in a few months and am looking forward to getting on my bike more and taking naps.

As a coach I should know better but I don't stretch, lift or do any of the little things. Maybe that is why I am a continual wreck?? Current issue is hamstring tightness that has drastically reduced my stride length (can't fully extend any more). I suppose that's something I could work on.

Not ready to give up yet. Just wish it felt better.