Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

I don't disagree the guy needs to chill. But the post I kinda agree with. If you are running 5-9 hours a week and it's a hobby, is there really probably a better one size fits all to train? I mean the main criticism was this wouldn't work for a marathon. That's out the window now as well. There has to be a point where with all the other evidence other than just sirpoc, points to the fact, if you are on hobby hours, would you not be stupid to at least try this approach for 6 months? This is someone who was an early skeptic of the thread .

Also, the cadence thing it's wild. And let's have no more Bester talk in this thread. Don't give him the attention the dbag wants.

Refuse to watch a Bester video, even if sirpoc is in it. Won't give him the clicks. Don't mind some of the YouTubers, route for FOD runner but Bester is a piece of work.

How much did sirpoc beat him by. I see the thread is running again I assume he did? Did he beat Felton as well? Harris Fry? I wondered before how he would fair against the YouTubers and shoetubers. Thought he might take scalps even though it's his first marathon. Felton even said something pretty dismissive about sirpoc training inadvertently I seem to remember from one of his videos about there is no such thing as NSM.

Another criticism that I've not seen mentioned often is that this is an incredibly boring way to train...that doesn't mean it's not effective, it clearly is effective and I've seen some improvements myself over a few months...but it is incredibly incredibly dull. Personally I think I'm going to have a break from subT routine and have a summer of 'fun' running to break the monotony. It's not a great surprise to read Sirpoc doesn't particularly enjoy running!...I'm sure this routine suits certain personality types more than others.

late to the party.

as a young runner or any runner

i love have done 1/3 of ingebritsen's workouts and all the cross training

and a tiny bit more speed

throw in sand dunes, and hills here and there

that would be a lot of fun

and take amino acids, fish oil, electrolytes,

if you happen to do very well, you can amp it up gradually, like at age 16 or 17

you will be very healthy

That's actually one of the things I like most about this method though; it's so simple to implement. A few times I looked into structured training plans, but I just couldn't be bothered to implement a Daniels workout or similar, with the mix of R/I/T paces etc. I'm just too lazy. Then one day I stumbled across this and it was so simple I had to give it a go. It took a while for me to mostly understand the ideology, but implementing it was so easy I can just switch my brain off, hit the required paces and go home.

Same with elite level double threshold training. Swedish 2.10 marathoner David Nilsson said that he couldn't train like that. Too boring.

0. I can't speak to the YouTuber, but I liked the video. I like seeing races from the participant's perspective, and it was cool to see the London Marathon start and finish, as it's highly unlikely I'll ever run London.

1. This method is incredibly easy to adapt to vacations. You don't need to find a track or plan out a 20K course. While consistency is important, that also means that no single week or workout will make or break the program. If you miss an easy day, or have to scale back from 6 x 1600 to 3 x 1600, you'll still have all your fitness when you get home. Basically, if you can run at all where you are, you can do NSA.

2-3. Remember the overall goal is to maximize the work you can do in 5-8 hours/week by doing workouts you can recover from in 48 hours, indefinitely, and you're approaching the limit from below - sub T, not super T. So if there's a new stressor, like temperature or wind or hills or whatever, use effort to guide you until you figure out the recovery. Personally, I don't think HR on easy days matters in itself. It's the recovery that matters. As long as you're ready to go by the next workout, you're fine.

It's easy to implement that is true. But I enjoy going running in the nearby hills, forests and countryside. And also running with friends/team-mates! There's something magical about a flowy tempo run through a forest or a long day out on the trails in the hills with your team-mates that subT just doesn't cater for. I guess if you only care about following a straightforward plan solely for improvement in running then it's perfect. Whereas others may be happy trading off some of that structure - and potentially improvement - for a more holistic running experience.

2:24 isn't even impressive even for a master. So why bother training to boring to be miserable. Maybe if it was a truly great time it would be worth it? This is not a rare feat even for a master

So what is the point in doing hard workouts, such as workouts at race pace or V02 max workouts? Do they provide any additional benefit at all?

That interesting to say, is marathoning is soft like that

Dude, he ran 2:24 being in his early 40s and running 65-75 MPW on singles. that's impressive

I wouldn’t disagree with this whatsoever, but I’ve been following this approach more or less now for nearly 6 months and I’ve managed to run with others, run a lot on trails, etc. The easy days are pretty much however you want to do them, so long as they’re easy enough. Beautiful trail runs actually motivate me to increase the volume a bit. And I’ve been able to do the sub-t intervals on trails too, by focusing on power/HR for 3x12min. Pretty similar to the flowy tempo you mention for me! In some ways the monotony of the structure allows me to focus more on route selection.

In the end, consistency is definitely a function of it being enjoyable enough to keep putting those shoes on every day. So I definitely agree that, if someone were to start feeling bored out or ground down by this approach, they probably should change it up more.

Yeah that's fair. Personally I can get a bit neurotic about it all. Feels like I'm "doing it wrong" if I deviate from the plan, so it probably matches my personality really well

Wow who cares about Bester in the video, but damn sirpoc cadence is absolutely wild lol I mean you can read it but when you see it, insane.
It sounds like someone tried to coach this out of him? Shows you that you just run, how you run. End of.

Also looks like he just have paced it well? Looks well back in the groups but ended up around 50th?
Finally, how funny is it that Felton went to Kenya and he gets smoked by a vet on one run a day and about 70 ish miles peak who had a pint the day before and a mars bar as breakfast.

This is the shizzle im here for. Makes me dream that even without having all the privileges of a full time runner I could run 2:24 lol

I’m with you on this. I’ve been doing the method with great results for 18 months now. I use the recovery days to enjoy trails, the outdoors, jogging with friends. I value race results so I’m willing to tolerate the monotony of the sessions. I would have balked prior at this method on paper because it’s boring. But I find it quite relaxing mentally as the sessions are always doable and I don’t have to reach out pump myself up excessively. No major injuries in almost two years is life changing.

He finished what, 50 something in one of the major marathons? Must be easily top 10 in age group if not more?

What percentage of guys over 40 have ran 2:24 in their first ever marathon? This is including all the YouTubers crying tears about how bad the conditions were. Even Lexel knew it was going to be impressive despite others making ridiculous claims about not breaking 2:35.

The trolls had their time. But there isn't even anything here for you now. It's over.

Of course. I am a probably beyond hobby jogger level with a pretty impressive 2:37. Everyone I know around my level which isn't many, I implements SOME sort of vo2 workouts, even for the marathon. All the best plans have it and it of course makes up part of the puzzle that is training. The top coaches don't say hills pay the bills for no reason ;)

Looks like one of the best plans doesn’t.