Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

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I have had an amazing couple of weeks here and am running a half-marathon race this Saturday. Then I have a few days to recover and one more cycle of training before a 2 week taper to CIM. I’ve had some amazing workouts.

I’m hoping to hit ~1:25 for the half this Saturday. Even if I’m a little off based on this race, I still have one more cycle to try to gain some speed.

Here are the last 27 days of workouts. (9 day cycle)

S: 13.5 W/ 7X1 @6:29 W/ ¼ EZ & LS

S: 5.2M EZ & LS

M: 5.3M EZ

T: 11.4 W/ 14 X 400 @ 1:28 & LS

W: 5.3M EZ

R: 5.3M EZ

F: 22M LONG (@7:35)

S: 5.3M EZ

S: OFF & UPPER STRENGTH

TOTAL: 73.3 MILES

M: 14M W/ 8X1@6:34 (7-10 SLOW)/PT

T: 4.5M EZ

W: 5.7M EZ

R: 15.1M W/11@6:44

F: 5.5M EZ

S: 5.5M EZ

S: 20.1M LONG

M: OFF & UPPER STRENGTH

T: 5.7M EZ

TOTAL: 76.1 MILES

W: 15.4M LONG & PT

R: 4.5M EZ

F: 14.1 W/ 8X1 @ 6:23

S: 5.8M EZ & LEG STRENGTH

S: 6.6M EZ

M: OFF & UPPER STRENGTH

T: 8M W/ 4 x 1K @ HMP w/ 1/2 JOG between

W: 6M EZ

R: OFF

F: 3M EZ

S: 1/2 MARATHON

Gave it a shot in Des Moines yesterday: 2:58:34. More proud of this time, post-getting fat and having kids and having to undo all that, than my PRs 10-15 years ago

erik wrote:

Gave it a shot in Des Moines yesterday: 2:58:34. More proud of this time, post-getting fat and having kids and having to undo all that, than my PRs 10-15 years ago

way to drop this one in!

Great job notherner! looking forward to the race report - lots of great results here!

MARATHON RACE REPORT

Race: Kansas City Marathon

Date: 10/19/19

Weather: 55 degrees, rainy, light wind.

Background recap: 25M, 6'0", ~155lb. 3rd Marathon

Goals: A- 2:57, B- SUB-3!

The plan was to go with the 1:30 pacer for the half marathon for the first 5-8 miles, hit half in 1:29 and then push hard in the last half. The courses run together for the first 8 miles of the race. I pinned my bib to my shorts and wore a cotton T-shirt at the start, with the plan of throwing it away once it got soaked.

Nutrition Plan - Drink 8oz of water mixed with GU Roctane every 2.5-3 miles. My wife and I analyzed the course map and picked 7 different spots for her to meet me with bottles.

The Race: Started with the 1:30 pacer and felt very comfortable for the first mile. I had downloaded the race app mentioned on this thread so the plan was to take manual splits at every mile. Unfortunately due to the rain, the darkness, and the fact I wear glasses, which were getting wet, I missed a few of the mile markers along the way. I missed the first marker. I kept feeling like I was pulling away from the pacer and had to ease up to make sure I didn't take it out too hot. When I hit my first manual split at mile 2, I looked down and saw 14:43. WHAT THE F***? I thought. This guy is supposed to be running 6:52 pace and he's running 7:20. I was so pissed. I knew I couldn't stay with this guy who was clearly an amateur, so I started slowly making my way up the field. I knew I couldn't try to get all the time back right away, so I tried to keep the effort conservative, but make sure I was running around 6:4x per mile.

Miles: 3 - 6:43, 4/5 - 13:43, 6 - 6:53. I found two other guys who had also been betrayed by the 1:30 pacer around mile 4 and stuck with them. They were both targeting 6:45 pace for the half, and one was wearing a pace band and checking his watch every couple minutes, so I felt pretty confident they weren't going to let the pace slip too much. We hit mile 6 at exactly 42 minutes. and my projected finish time slowly inched towards 3:00.

Mile 7 was a decent descent, and the HM runners gapped me a bit, but I split 6:28. I decided to let them go, since I wasn't ready to let the pace get hot.

Mile 8 was a quick 6:34 stall a bit DH and I was slowly picking off slower people. Shortly after mile 8, Marathoners took a left turn and I was immediately in no-man's land.

Mile 9 was a 6:43. I think somewhere in here I first saw my projected finish time hit 3:00, which was a nice relief and I continued to curse the 1:30 pacer for trying to screw me over from the start.

Mile 10 was a 6:40. I knew the pace was a bit faster than I needed, but I felt great aerobically, and my legs were feeling strong. I caught and passed another guy shooting for sub-3, but he didn't seem like he was in a great spot.

Miles 11/12 turned and went uphill through some neighborhood roads, the rain made my shoes slip a little running up the hills which pissed me off a bit. Here I met my wife and got my 4th bottle - hydration had been perfect so far, so at least I had that going for me. 13:31.

Just before the half, a pack of two guys caught me and I decided to latch on to them. They had also been shafted by the 1:30 pacer, so we commiserated a bit. - 6:45

I didn't get an exact half split, but I hit 13 miles in exaclty 1:29, so probably around 1:29:40. The mat was a little bit out of place, so I think the results show 1:30:30 or so.

I stayed latched onto the pack of two and about 30 seconds ahead was a group of 3-4 guys - probably the actual group shooting for sub-3. The guys I was running with seemed to be putting down a pretty hot pace, but I decided I would feel better running 5-10 seconds too fast in a group than 5-10 seconds slower solo. I stuck with them and we caught the bigger pack 2 miles later.

14- 6:40

15- 6:29

16- 6:30

Once we caught the group, I figured we would merge in with it, but the two guys seemed to want to keep pushing the pace, and moved through and past the pack within half a mile. At this point I felt my calves start to get a bit tight, and halving dealt with cramps in my previous 2 marathons, I got pretty worried. I decided to run next to one of the guys from the pack (it kind-of started to splinter once we caught it) and let the 2 other guys go on ahead.

17/18 - 13:27

Somewhere in here might have been the last time I checked my watch. I believe at this point my projected finish was 2:57:3x, so I knew I just needed to hold 6:45 pace and I'd be good. I told myself I had less than an hour left and I'd done more than an hour at MP in training several times. Mentally I felt great, the only thing making me nervous was my calf tightness, but their condition hadn't changed since 16, so I figured all I could do was keep running strong and hope they held out. Shortly after 18, the course turns back towards back in the direction of the start, and I decided I was going to push it a little since I felt really good mentally.

19- 6:31

20 - 6:35

Caught one of the two guys who had caught me near the half. He was hurting, but the other dude kept pulling away. I had no idea how...

21 - 6:31

22- 6:24

Again, I wasn't looking at the splits, just telling myself to run hard. I've run 5 miles at 6:20 pace in training, I told myself. Just keep pushing. If your calves hold you'll run a fantastic time. I also kept reeling in people who were hitting the wall, including the women's leader at around 22.5.

23- 6:48 - The last big hill of the course, and rejoining with the HM "runners" - except by now it was people WALKING in big ass groups, causing me to have to weave and preventing me from running tangents. (This is by far the worst thing about this race. Terrible course design that screws over faster marathon runners)

24- 6:45 - Still a bit of the uphill and expending mental energy trying not to think about how mad I was at oblivious HM walkers. My legs were heavy and tired, but I focused on pushing with my glutes. To highlight the extra time caused by walkers, my watch shows splits 23-25 as (1.01, 1.03 and 1.02 miles), easily an extra 20 seconds added to my finish time since most of my other splits were right on 1.00 or maybe 1.01.

25- 6:37 - I knew the last mile was all downhill, I pushed hard and as I turned onto the last final street I realized I still had over a quarter mile that was a bit uphill before the last downhill started. Annoying. Time to move!!

26- 6:16 - I was laying it all out there. Prior finishers lined the course walking back to their vehicles and giving me encouragement, since it's basically one person moving fast in a sea of overweight walkers or people shuffle jogging down the hill - it's pretty obvious to spectators who the marathoners are.

.21 - 1:15 - I crossed the line and stopped my watch at 2:55:37! (officially 2:55:35) I was so happy my legs held up. Hugged my wife and maybe cried a little bit. I was so happy I did it, despite the rain, stupid pacers, and hobbywalkers.

Thanks for the support on this thread everyone, it's been a blast.

alright...12 week training block finished yesterday...want to summarize a bit and lay out the race plan for feedback

33M / 5'11''/ 158

Summary

12 weeks

134 runs (roughly 1.6 a day - my run commute helps with doubles)

808 miles for an average of 67 MPW

Slower ramp up - 1st 6 weeks MPW = 60MPW

Last 6 weeks = 75 MPW

47,602 feet of elevation gain for an average of 3,967 per week

Started at 166.6 pounds, currently 158.5 - plan on racing around 158

Long Runs

15 / 17 / 17 / 18 / 20 / 20 / 20

20 milers x 2 = 14 miles at 8ish and 6 miles at 6:25

final 20 miler 10 miles at 8ish and 10 miles at 6:30

1 of the 17 milers was up Whiteface Mountain (3,750 ft of gain over 8.5 miles)

Races

Week 7 10k - 37:20, 6min average - didn't pace well

Week 10 HM - 1:20:37 - negative split, felt like a million bucks

Debating going out between a 1:25 and 1:26 - initially wanted to break 2:53 but now toying with the idea of trying to break 2:50 - is that too greedy?

runnerchef wrote:

finallyransub17 - wow - I can't believe the 3 hour pacer was going out of the gate so slowly. Great effort and you crushed your A- goal! Heck yeah. I'm also amazed how in frequently you look at your watch...probably better for your focus. Great work! Another BQ!

To be fair to the pacer the first mile was ~80 ft elevation gain, I think we ran 7:20, but mile 2 was 30 ft elevation loss and we ran another 7:20. I saw the guy look at his pace band at mile 2. I have no idea what it called for, but I would guess at least a 6:4x with elevation loss during the mile.

I don't know why I check so infrequently- I definitely checked it a lot during miles 2-10 when I was trying to make up ground. To be honest I thought I might be slowing down a bit at the end and didn't want to get discouraged. I knew the effort was high, so I guess my legs were still putting out more power than I thought they would which was really great.

I just wanted to come back and thank you for the advice. I went out and ran 2:47 yesterday at Abingdon, UK. I went out with the 2:50 group but changed my mind at 5 miles and sped up, used a bit much trying to catch the 2:45 group and got lonely as I spent 20miles on my own, I faded the last couple of miles but overall more than happy.

Sticking a pin in marathons for a couple of years now and going to chase a 72min half.

fantastic effort - lots of great advice in this thread - what is your HM PR?

Jack Horner Boogie Nights wrote:

2:53:47

10k 40:37

13.1 1:23:33

20m 2:10:34

26.2 2:53:47 (last 10k 43:14)

Ran like an idiot at the start and came through 13.1 way faster than i planned (1:28) and paid for it a little on the back but was able to hold on and still beat my goal of 2:55 and *fingers crossed* earned my spot at Boston 2021

So i had a typo here yesterday...

correct splits

2:53:47

10k 40:37

13.1 1:25:33

20m 2:10:34

26.2 2:53:47 (last 10k 43:14)

Went out with a group of college kids the first 10k and was nice to chat with them to keep my mind off but i knew i was going too fast. I wanted to slow down but there was amazing fan support from 9.5 to 14.5 and at 12.5 you do a lap on the Drake track so that was pretty cool and felt amazing... coming through 13.1 at 1:25:33 excited me but also scared me... from 16-20 it got pretty lonely with very little fan support and i was in no mans land with other athletes so that was pretty tough. Went through some waves of self doubt from 19-23 if i was going to finish sub 3 but looking back on it... i didnt check my watch once during this time so was going purely on feel... i came through 23 at 2:34 and thats when it hit me i would break 3:00 even if i shuffled the last 5k...

Strava had the total distance at 26.84 so splits arent perfect but here's how it broke down

1. 622

2. 626

3. 625

4. 627

5. 620

6. 623

7. 633

8. 632

9. 621

10. 624

11. 612

12. 607

13. 616

14. 609

15. 608

16. 606

17. 611

18. 620

19. 638

20. 646

21. 654

22. 648

23. 707

25. 632

26. 639

So awesome to see everyone run such great marathons. A little less than 3 weeks away for me but hoping I can report back with a sub 3 time as well. Great job everyone!

MARATHON REPORT:

Stats: M, 47yrs, 5'10", 151 lb. Last sub3: 2015. Married 17yrs, 2 kids 12, 15yrs

Had an awesome weekend in Bruges! Went from scandinavia with my 2 partners in crime on the annual race trip. So this year we decided to go to Bruges as none of us had been to Belgium before. Arrived lunch time and checked into a gorgeous medievial guest house. The building was from 1420s and it felt like living in a castle.

Bruge was a hidden gem. The whole town centre is medievial. Beautiful! The people were laid back and it was a pleasant place to be. Our guest house was litterally next to the start which was perfect. The weather was perfect. Overcast, 50-53F and zero wind. In my opinion perfect marathon weather.

Me and my friend said that passing in 1.28 should be perfect and then hang on to the pace as long as possible and hopefully make it to minimum 20miles, hopefully 22-23miles before having to slow down. There was a pacer for 2.59 and our backup plan was to go with them if it was windy or if we needed to have a pack to stay with.

We started in the historical center of Bruges and the first 2-3miles was on cobble stones on quite narrow streets. The 2.59 pacer was in front of us and there was a quite big group running with them. This was a problem... They kind of made up a wall of people in front of us. The second problem was that they were going too fast! Both me and my friend are experienced marathoners and we said that there's no way they are going at 4'14/k. We estimated that we were going 4-4'05/k and they were in front of us. In the middle of the city the GPS can go a bit bezerk, so we didn't know for sure. I had downloaded the race pace app and used that. Thanks for that tip, that was great!

We decided that we need to pass the group and be in front of them if there's any narrow streets ahead. We did so and ran just in front of the group. There was a lot less people there and that was nice. We kept going and at 5miles we were a group of 5-6 people running together. That was really nice. The 2.59 pacer was on our tail and didn't drop to right pace until 10k. That's just stupid. You have one job -do your job! If you can't -don't run. We were running steadily at 6'36ish pace. I just looked at the race pace average as now we were out next to a canal, gps working, running towards the sea. This pace felt reasonable but was a bit faster than planned. So we just stuck with it. The group was nice. Not too talkative. Just the occational "you ok?" "good pace, we keep it like this" "uniform: yes from everybody" So we just cruised on autopilot. We passed the half at 1.27.27 and reached the sea after 15miles. On the way here we passed through 2 villages and had to run a couple of miles on the hated cobble stones! At the sea we had to do two 180 degree turns around a fence. Not nice! Then we reached the boardwalk... It was tiles which is not a problem. But on the tiles there was a bit of sand and you kind of mini slipped backwards in every step. The boardwalk was about a mile long, then we did a 180 turn and had to run the whole thing back again! Nevermind. I felt stong and our group was intact.

Now we were going back towards Bruges again. The only thing I did, was looking at my watch and the average pace showed 6'37 and my main focus was to stick to this as long as possible. Normally somwhere at 20miles I tend to loose pace even if it feels that I'm running the same as before. So I assessed myself and I felt okey. I was at 18miles and I started to think "I'm going to do this" berated myself immediatly and told myself that you have done this many times before and know that this can slip within a mile. Stay focussed! So my plan was, the pace HAS to be the same at mile 20. Reached it on pace, refocussed and told myself that same pace has to done to mile 22. This was crucial. I new that if I'm keeping the pace to mile 22 and still feel okayish, I'm going to crush this. And i did! Me and my friend were running next to eachother and our pack had diminished to a total of us and two more guys. We passed a few runners that had previously passed us and that felt really good.

Somewhere around 23-24miles I had a mental dip. I was breathing a bit harder and it was a tough stretch. I took a gel and got some mojo back. At this stage of the race it's all a mental game. I looked at my watch and I kept telling myself that all is good, but you GOT to PROVE to YOURSELF that not one of the remaining miles is slower than sub3 pace. You got this. At 24.5 miles I kind of found a bit of strenght and was still around same pace. This gave me a boost and I kept going. Started to leave the others behind and pulled in front. Entered Bruge centre and now I was happy to reach the cobbl.55e stones as this meant finish line. Saw the big tower and gave what I had the last stretch in. Crossed the finishline in 2:55:52

I ended up 39th out of 1641 runners and 3rd in age category M45. I have now done M35, M40 and M45. Next sub3 has to be in 3yrs time in order to get that sub3 in M50! Splits 1.27.27/1.28.25. Lost a minute on the second half. To me that's borderline perect execution. I didn't think I had better than 2.57-58 in me!

I was elated and intensly happy! I proved to myself that I had it in me and I did the training and I got the opportunity to execute on race day. A deep sense of fulfilment in my soul. Happiness, gratitude and humbleness. It was a deep, wonderful feeling. My friend couldn't keep up in the last mile, but still ended up at 2.56.xx coming back from loosing 44lb in the last year and a half and had his sight set on sub 3 again. We hugged and felt like top of the world.

We went back to out guest house and rested before entering the Belgian night and a lot of beers!

Thank's everybody for a really inspiring and nice thread! I have appreciated to follow you all, your training and races. Did my best to chime in with my own experience and thoughts. Sometimes is har to get the right words out as english is not my first language.

I missed congratulating some people on their awesome races so I do that now: CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU ALL!! Well done all of you!

Awesome race report. That tile sand situation would definitely have dazed me ha. Here’s mine where I ran precisely a minute slower. Adapted from RRW thread great group of guys there:

Miles 1-3: I run next to or in second row with 3hr pacer. We’re closer to the front than I envisioned. Maybe 70 people go ahead of a big group chasing the BQ/Sub-3. We hit the first mile at 6:32. No problem to me I ran 6:05 or so last year by myself and it feels comfortable. Click off a 6:36 and 6:28 the next 2 miles. Only snafu I nearly choke/burp up my water after failing my cup technique. I get better at that as we go. I’m happy with it being fast as given how the BQ moves, I’m hoping to go through in the 1:28-1:29 range and not the 1:29:30 that he’s prescribed to do. This is a slight downhill section of the course as well. I talk to the pacer a bit and it sounds like adrenaline got the best of him a bit. At mile 3 I see my sister wincing to find me and I just yell at her giving the guy next to her a good laugh.

Mile 4-8: I move back into the second or third row as the wind is more of a factor with a pretty exposed road on a small highway. At a little after the 4 mile mark, we hit the biggest “hill” on the course, it’s pretty modest but I mentally check it off. Ditch my gloves at mile 7 before I grab the free gel they’re handing out. I’m tucked in the second or third row behind and we’re running a steady 6:4mid-high pace. Fantastic.

Mile 8-13: We cross a bridge to the back section. It’s a great, more scenic section, and our pace is stabilizing, but given the time we banked in the beginning I figure I’ll stay with the pack. Still feeling very solid. I have my phone giving feedback of 6:42 pace or so and I’m only getting it 5-10 seconds ahead of the official markers so I’m doing well on tangents. At mile 13, my fiancée almost misses me but I get a half-Gatorade, half-water bottle from her. Note to self, fill it less next time or do a smaller size. Anyhow I get a few ounces down. We hit the half in 1:28:22. I dont think I knew that exactly at the time but I knew we were in the 1:28-mid range.

Mile 14-21: Moment of truth. We have a new pacer on, and I’m getting a little antsy because I see him moving the pace back to 6:50 or so to cover for our first pacer. After getting over the “hill,” I decide it’s time to go and chase after the 2:55-2:58 i need to realistically get into Boston. I hope, but don’t expect, anyone to go with me. I take down a gel around then and drop a 6:31 and get back in the high 6:30s and low 6:40s range. There are few people to even chase and I look back and I’ve dropped everyone. I’m basically going solo and taking a lot of wind for the first time. I’m feeling solid though and once I get to the back section around mile 18 some more runners are in focus and there’s a reprieve from the wind. At mile 15 my phone shows I’m low on battery (yikes). I put in low power mode and try to get the NikeRun app off to stop bleeding it but that inadvertently stops it. No more splits for me. I start to pass struggling runners here and there. I’m starting to hurt a bit at mile 20 and come up to a racer and ask him for a split, he’s got us at 2:13:50. I tell him lets drop a 42 and we got this. He smiles weakly and starts falling back.

Mile 21-26.2: The struggle begins. My legs are giving out on me again. I feel some uncomfortable twinges and try to be careful with my stride not to cramp up, which seems like it could happen at any moment. On the positive, I’m running even with a lot of people in front of me (even if I’m not catching them). Some people are going by, but a lot of them you can tell are kicking into high gear and not just maintaining. Race volunteers aren’t looking at me with pity ha. So as much as this feels like deja by of Jersey where I slowed to 8 min pace, I’m cautiously hoping the rig is OK. The miles are taking forever though, and while my breath is easy and I wish I could accelerate and feel like I could, my legs will surely lock up. I get a second drink from fiancée at 22.5, Apparently I was kinda ornery (we didn’t expect me to want). I had to circle back a tiny bit and I was just sternly “I need the Gatorade!” Got a good deal down and just prayed the cramp would never come. Slowly, but surely we’re getting to the end. I take a gel to distract me. None of the clocks are up, my phone’s down, so I’m just hoping for the best. A Mile to go and I want to shift gears — I can’t. It’s 10:51. Did we start on time? Oof, this could get me a 2:58 clocking that I’d hate from a BQ perspective. But still can’t risk a 9-min mile exploding if my legs give out. 800 to go. Thank god. 26 mile mark, come on. At the top of the short, final stretch, the first thing I see is the second set of numbers. It’s in the high-30s.

But what is it 2:57? 2:58? 2:59? Instead I see 2:56. Unbelievable. With about 100 to go I summon a tiny kick, a lockup won’t matter at this point. The announcer yells my name and says under 2:57. 2:56:57 gun time, 2:56:52 chip time. Through all the struggle I’d been keeping my miles in the low 6:50s. Surprising but great. 53rd /1060 or so.

Overall Thoughts: I am relieved and stoked. I’m not 100% sure I’ll get in, but it’s almost 90 seconds faster than last year’s marker, and the VF shoes and new standard were out last year so hopefully there’s a little stagnation. In past years it’s dropped 20-1:20. I took a risk going off on my own at 14, but I almost kept an even split despite a brutally tough last 5. Interested to hear you’re guys’ thoughts on that. I put it down to conditioning and mileage. I trained about 15 weeks for this one (July 4 on ), and peaked at maybe 55 mpw with an average of 45. Think I just need to run more if I want to have my legs hold up the last 4-5 of the 26.2.

erik wrote:

Gave it a shot in Des Moines yesterday: 2:58:34. More proud of this time, post-getting fat and having kids and having to undo all that, than my PRs 10-15 years ago

Nice! I was out there too, finishing in 2:55:30. I've really enjoyed silently following this thread over the course of my training; so thanks, everyone.

Awesome reports, THOUGHTSLEADER and Northerner.

Guys we all went sub 3 with room to spare LETS GO!!!!!

It's funny the my pacer took it out about 45 seconds per mile slower than your pacers. I Really resonated with your report THOUGHTSLEADER, since we are closer in age and had pretty similar build ups to our races - and I would totally recommend the 8 oz water bottles, they are also the perfect size for holding for an extended period of time if you need to after a hand off. I found a 24 pack at Target for like $3.

I hope you get into Boston. I'm always nervous, probably because I missed it by 50 some seconds in 2018, but I think 3 minutes under should be good enough, unless a ton more people move to downhill marathons. Hopefully we can have a meetup at Boston 2021!

Finallyran I missed your race report initially, but that is awesome how you adjusted and refused to let that pacer screw it up for ya. That hit home for me. It’s funny I had great luck with that...not so great luck with anybody running 2:56 who would run with me after I broke away (there just was nobody there ha, or it was all guys who were trying to run 2:50 and were rigging. ). But it’s a move I felt was necessary and set the tone for gutting it to the finish. Definitely noted on the water bottles, that’s my move for the next one. Nervous about Boston too, hope we’re both there! It would be a major move for my time NOT to get in, which is what I keep telling myself. Throw in bad optics for the organizers as then they probably have to drop the standard another 5 minutes for 2022/2023...Totally in for the meet-up if I get in, I grew up in the area, so I think I will just try to soak up the atmosphere and not get sucked into a hot pace early. It’s pretty amazing we all beat the barrier so handily I agree. Like the fear of beating it but NOT having a shot at really getting in + the fear of just running out of gas at the end just drove us to do more than we maybe thought we could when we began thinking about our goals. Very cool stuff

finallyransub17 wrote:

Awesome reports, THOUGHTSLEADER and Northerner.

Guys we all went sub 3 with room to spare LETS GO!!!!!

It's funny the my pacer took it out about 45 seconds per mile slower than your pacers. I Really resonated with your report THOUGHTSLEADER, since we are closer in age and had pretty similar build ups to our races - and I would totally recommend the 8 oz water bottles, they are also the perfect size for holding for an extended period of time if you need to after a hand off. I found a 24 pack at Target for like $3.

I hope you get into Boston. I'm always nervous, probably because I missed it by 50 some seconds in 2018, but I think 3 minutes under should be good enough, unless a ton more people move to downhill marathons. Hopefully we can have a meetup at Boston 2021!

northener - I enjoyed the write-up! You laid out a very convincing sub-3 with an aggressive approach in the first half and a second half to match. I'm not surprised you kicked that sub-3's a**, to be honest. You had a great buildup. Thanks for getting it done on behalf of the old-but-not-quite-ready-to-quit crew. 2:55:52 is an excellent performance at any age, so soak up that glory and enjoy the fruits of your labors! Are you really gonna wait another 3 years to try again, though?

finallyransub17 - That's frustrating about the pacer. I've heard that happens quite frequently, though! That definitely cost you some energy, but it didn't cost you your sub-3! Well done, whippersnapper!

thoughtsleader - Nice 2:56 sub-3, but you know I can't let this slide by: you were running with a phone, and then you realized you hadn't charged the phone, and when you started messing with your NikeRun app to prevent it from using too much battery, you ended up shutting it down completely. Let me make a suggestion. Next race, bring 2 phones. That way, if your first phone fails you, at least you will have another phone as backup.

runnerchef - Your 10k is good for 2:51, and the half is good for 2:48 according to the race pace equivalency calculator. Do you really think you'll fall to pieces if you aim for a 2:50 rather than a 2:53? What's the worst that could happen? Go for it, man!

last chance runner: Way to go. That a perfectly executed marathon. 1min negative split is spot on perfect. Really nice of you to encourage that 17yr old guy in his first marathon. I’ve noticed that encouragement does a lot to people during the races. It has helped me before and I also try to do that to others. It feels good, motivates not only the person you’re helping, but also one self. Congrats to a great race!!

Also CONGRATULATIONS to your engagement!! I’m happy for you. I’ve been married for 17yrs and the love has just deepend with the years. Both me and my wife cook, so there’s no chance for chicken in different forms everyday… ?. It’s great that running brought you together. May you run well many future years.

In my case, I started running and then my wife got interested in running as well so now we both run. It’s awesome. We never had any problems when kids were young, giving each other time to go out and run in order to breathe. It works as both understood the feeling. Hope you have a really good and prosperous marriage.

Regarding your training, I’m the opposite. I love training MP. It gives me so much. It’s a good workout and it’s not too intense. Maybe I like it so much just because I’m more of a slow twich guy. So maybe I should train faster…

Finallyransub17: Congrats!! That’s a really solid race! Only 25yrs old. You have many great marathons ahead! Your splits are fantastic for the halfs. Too bad with the pacers. That’s just mental that they don’t keep the pace. The walkers and zig-zagging.. OMG, that is NOT what you want the last couple of miles in a marathon. Props for staying focused and keep going through that.

Maybe it was a good thing that you opened with a 1.29 half. Since your calfs started to get tight in the end, that might have saved you. If you’d started with a 1.26-27, you might have gone over the top and in the end your calfs might’ve done you in. Great result! Be proud and happy, you deserve it!

THOUGHTSLEADER: Yey!!! Congratulations!! Super impressive. Your splits are absolutely perfect. I salute you in that. Even splits pretty much. Wow! Just, wow! Really impressive how you ran those 21-26.2mi. That’s where it all matters and comes down to the mental ability to block out all the negativity and keep pushing! I almost fell for it. When I saw my predicted time was 2:55, I realized I could jog the rest of the way. These thoughts are dangerous, because, to me, they can cause a 2.59 instead of a 2.55. But with experience, I squelched those thoughts and kept pace. Great fighting! That’s impressive!

Seems like you had good pacers in your race. Mine were going too fast and finallyransub17s went too slow. In my case it didn’t matter as I was not following them. I got lucky after 5mi to be together with 5 other people. I looked at them, two were around my age and looked experienced, one was my friend, one looked like a triathlete. The way they ran, told me they new what they were doing. That’s the best, only job is to hang in there for as long as it takes. Feels good to be the one going away in the front in the last miles and pass the finish line first ?

Good luck in getting into Boston. Hope you make it! I ran Boston in 2016. It’s one of those races one has to do once. It’s great. I loved it!

Jack Horner Boogie Night: Congratulations to a great time! 2.53.47 is respectable! But dude… uhh, you must’ve had the dreaded suffer fest walking in zombie land in the last miles there with those splits. Props for fighting it out with all you got until the end and getting the 2.53. Good luck in Boston! You’ll get in.

Runnerchef: Go for 2.50!! with a 1.20.37 half that’s what you should aim for. Focus on not going out too fast and stay on pace. You got this, give it a try. Even if you don’t make it, the 1.24.30-1.25 is not too fast in your shape and the finish time will be great regardless.

erik: Good job! Congrats! I agree with you. This one at age 47 was more sweet than my first sub 3 14yrs ago. It doesn’t get easier with age, that’s for sure. I think us that really want it and do the work, we truly love running and all the things associated with it. That’s what makes the difference to the ones that give up and stop.

Awesome thread!!! Inspired by the efforts here, so want to share my wife's 13-week build-up to Chicago where she ran 2:53:20 at 40, just missing her lifetime PR of 2:52:19. 95% of her runs were done on a treadmill.

Best of luck!

Week I

Mon- Rest

Tue- Travel

Wed- 30 min easy

Thu- 30 min

Fri- 30 min

Sat- 30 min

Sun – 8 mile long run

Week II

Mon- 35 min

Tue- 35 min

Wed- 30 min

Thu- 35 min

Fri- 35 min

Sat- 30 min

Sun- 12 miles

Week III

Mon- Rest

Tue- 40 min

Wed- 40 min

Thu- 30 min

Fri- 40 min

Sat- 30 min

Sun- 17 miles on Rail Trail (7:33, 7:28, 7:19, 7:14, 7:16, 7:14, 7:19, 7:23, 7:21, 7:36, 7:19, 7:26, 7:17, 7:21, 7:14, 7:20, 7:20)

Week IV

Mon- Rest

Tue- 40 min

Wed- 50 min

Thu- 30 min

Fri- 30 min + 15 min fast

Sat- 30 min

Sun- 20 miles

Week V

Mon- 20-25 min

Tue- 30 min steady

Wed- 35 min steady

Thu- 2 miles, 6 x 1 mile at sub-6:45, rest 2:00 jog

Fri- 30 min easy

Sat- 30 min easy

Sun- 22 miles with the first 10 miles easy (7:46/mi), next 3 miles alternating 1 min strong (6:49/mi), 1 min easy (7:19/mi), next 6 miles sub-7:00/mi (6:44/mi), next mile recovery (7:35), last 2 miles hard as possible on hilly roads (last two in 14:31)

Week VI

Mon- Rest

Tue- Rest

Wed- 35 min easy

Thu- 45 min

Fri- 30 min easy

Sat- 10 min, 40 min hilly road run

Sun- 20 miles easy in 2:24 (avg. 7:12/mi)

Week VII

Mon- Rest

Tue- 30 min easy

Wed- 30 min easy

Thu- 30 min easy + 40 min fast (sub-7:00/mi)

Fri- 45 min

Sat- 30 min easy

Sun- 24 miles with 10 miles easy, 3 miles of surges of 1’ fast, 1’ easy, 6 miles tempo (6:45/mi), 2 miles easy, 3 miles max

Week VIII

Mon- Rest

Tue- Rest

Wed- 20-25 min

Thu- 30 min

Fri- 35 min

Sat- 20 min, 45 min hilly road run

Sun- 2h30’ long run on feel on Rail Trail avg. (7:39, 7:36, 7:27, 7:39, 7:09, 7:20, 7:30, 7:16, 7:13, 7:15, 7:19, 7:11, 7:45, 7:33, 7:14, 7:01, 7:07, 7:25, 7:40, 7:27)

Week IX

Mon- Rest

Tue- 30 min easy

Wed- 30 min easy

Thu- 8 miles avg. 7:02/mi

Fri- 50 min easy

Sat- 50 min easy

Sun- 20 min, then 3 x 4 miles at 6:45/mi or faster with 1 mile recovery (that part covered 14 miles avg. 6:44/mi).

Week X

Mon- Rest

Tue- 45 min easy

Wed- 20 min easy

Thu- 30 min easy

Fri- 3 miles, then 20 minutes alternating 1 min fast, 1 min steady…

Sat- 10 miles easy

Sun- 20 mile progression

Week XI

Mon- Rest

Tue- 30 min easy

Wed- 20-25 min easy

Thu- 5 min + 10 mile progression, every 2.5 miles faster

Fri- 30 min easy

Sat- 50 min easy + 6 x 100m strides

Sun- 20 min, 4 x 3 miles at 6:40/mi, rec. 1 mile + 1 mile fast (total continuous was 17 miles, avg. 6:45/mi)

Week XII

Mon- Rest

Tue- 35-40 min easy

Wed- 30 min easy

Thu- 3 mi steady + 4 mi at 6:30/mi

Fri- 20-25 min easy

Sat- 30 min easy

Sun- 10 miles easy + 6 miles at 6:35/mi

Race Week

Mon- Rest

Tue- 30 min

Wed- 30 min

Thu- 50 min easy

Fri- 40 min with 10 min at sub-7:00/mi

Sat- 30 min very easy

Sun- Chicago Marathon, 2:53:20 (12th Master Overall); Masters PR (2:57:34); missed PR by 61-sec; Masters Half PR en route 1:23:26

19:50, 39:40 (19:51), 59:16 (19:36), 1:19:04 (19:49), 1:23:26 Half, 1:39:11 (20:06), 1:59:29 (20:18), 2:20:32 (21:03), 2:42:51 (22:20), 10:29