The emperor has no clothes: Jemima Sumgong has tested positive for EPO!!!

Well this is an interesting Good Friday read. This is not a place of confession but given the day it seems only appropriate. Did you say that you were involved in blood transfusions? It was seen as cheating long before it was banned, you do realise that? Why would athletes stop blood doping if it could not be detected?

You are both correct about lower Hct levels being a sign of fitness, this is agreed, I have seen it with my own levels. But you miss the three dimensionality of the measurement. I think it was rjm33 (under one of his many guises) or Cleans that pointed out that it is the Hct total weight/volume that matters. Tour de France cyclists would blood dope to get under the 50% level, i.e. dilution, which makes this level next to useless for policy purposes (just like the cpi in corrupt countries).

However, there is evidence that higher Hct improves VO2max, which without outstanding genetics, only epo can address. Your data could be missing athletes using EPO if their blood volume is increasing by anow even greater percentage due to all your 'proper training.'

The evidence presented from investigations is that it is easier to obtain EPO in Kenya than it is to in St. Moritz. Heck it is only 60 euros there. So I believe you when you say that you never saw your athletes doping in St. Moritz. It would be utterly stupid to dope so near to tested competitions. However, don't testers struggle to differentiate between recent altitude derived RBCs and EPO derived RBCs hence the leeway (or motorway) in the testing thresholds? Isn't Yannis trying to create a test for this?

28:19 to 26:30 that is large drop, that is like going from Wejo to Tergat in one race. Kemboi could run 1:46 (near Olympic level) for 800m yet he has the slowest pb for 5k of anyone that has run that fast over 10k. 1500m to 3k are not elite level times. His best times seem to be all over the place. You do realise that Kemboi is 16s quicker than Mo over 10k, an event that Mo has utterly dominated recently?

bad breath wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Britain has a higher income than Spain, and way higher wealth per person.

Britain has a higher income than Italy (not by much) and about the same ever wealth per person. If Italy has a higher reading right now it is largely because the sterling has dropped temporarily since the Brexit vote.

Per person govt debt is worse in Italy and Spain.

And yet crime - especially violent criime-is much worse in Britain than in Spain or Italy if the reported stats are accurate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

I don't doubt Brits are worse than many of the other on the top 10 list, but South Africa? Read this from the same article:

- But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and differences in how crime is reported and measured.

In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.

Anyone can see what they want to see in the stats perhaps.

Age at marathon pb

Mota 27

Benoit 28

Kristiansen 29

Radcliffe 30

McColgan 33

Waitz 33

Again, this doesn't indicate an age outlier.

Britain appears to have a crime problem. I did walked down a long (500-600m), poorly lit, alleyway next to a railway line in 2003 or 2004 (??) in West London after an athletics meet around midnight but I did live to tell the tale (I wouldn't recommend it though and the place did look a lot like what was in the dailymail photo). The truth is Norway and Sweden don't even count half their crimes especially immigrant crimes.

I was only correcting your wealth/income statements, you wandered into my area of expertise.

But WTH has this got to do with Sumgong or EPO? Most here think that Paula was on something, because there isn't a single clean WR, sadly.

Barakus Obama wrote:

bad breath wrote:

And yet crime - especially violent criime-is much worse in Britain than in Spain or Italy if the reported stats are accurate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

I don't doubt Brits are worse than many of the other on the top 10 list, but South Africa? Read this from the same article:

- But criminologists say crime figures can be affected by many factors, including different criminal justice systems and differences in how crime is reported and measured.

In Britain, an affray is considered a violent crime, while in other countries it will only be logged if a person is physically injured.

There are also degrees of violence. While the UK ranks above South Africa for all violent crime, South Africans suffer more than 20,000 murders each year - compared with Britain's 921 in 2007.

Yep, I don't know how they report these things in other European countries, but the idea that the UK is more violent than the USA is a ridiculous one.

A violent crime in the US falls under 4 categories: murder, forcible rape, robbery or aggravated assault. At least 75% of 'violent' crimes committed in the UK wouldn't be classed as violent in the USA. The majority don't result in any injury at all.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

However, there is evidence that higher Hct improves VO2max, which without outstanding genetics, only epo can address. Your data could be missing athletes using EPO if their blood volume is increasing by anow even greater percentage due to all your 'proper training.'

Yep...EPO/blood doping raises Hct which consequently raises VO2max. VO2max is the most important physiological variable determining performance in races of 1500 to 5000 meters:

Renato,

You must have thousands or more likely tens of thousands of results from blood tests from your athletes. Your claim is that those blood tests support your thesis that EPO doesn't work for your best athletes.

Will you release all of those blood tests?

If not, why not?

Joycelin Jepkosgei bettered 3 WR in Prague (15k, 20k and HM, the record of 10k is not valid according the current rules because the distance between start and finish is more than 50% of the total length of the race), coming from 66'08" in HM in Rak, and before that time had a PB of 69'07". With these times, IN ANY COUNTRY SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OOC TEST.

This is not a problem of Kenya : it's the problem of every athlete suddenly improving, who never was before in the whereabout system because not in top 30 in the world.

For your knowledge, also Irene Cheptai, world cross country champion, was not in the whereabout system.

In both the cases, their managements asked immediately to IAAF they were listed among the athletes who need to be controlled by WADA and IAAF with OOC tests.

Again, when you speak you need to know what are you speaking about.

For now, I only look at your last paragraph.

Nicholas Kemboi NEVER ran 1'46". There were two Nicholas Kemboi : the one running 1'46" and 3'31"5 is not the same Nicholas Kemboi I coached, who ran 26'30".

So, you are not able to distinguish one athlete from another, but want to explain how Kenya works and Kenyan athletes operate ?

All what you say is laughable.

Renato Canova wrote:

This is not a problem of Kenya : it's the problem of every athlete suddenly improving, who never was before in the whereabout system because not in top 30 in the world.

You mean it's a problem for any athlete not in the whereabouts system who comes from a country with no viable national anti-doping efforts and absolutely zero desire to catch any of their own?

From most countries she would have been OOC tested having done and probably well before the 69 minute effort.

Saw Paula Once wrote:

Anyone can see what they want to see in the stats perhaps.

Age at marathon pb

Mota 27

Benoit 28

Kristiansen 29

Radcliffe 30

McColgan 33

Waitz 33

Again, this doesn't indicate an age outlier.

Correct - but which criteria would you use to explain Farah's and Radcliffe's all but unbeatable status from age 27 on (roughly), plus her unreachable world record, when they won no worlds (with the exception of one junior xc title) or didn't medal in any Olympics before age 26?

It can't be talent (which is of course there, but it's not the best there ever was). Some people claim it's the marathon distance for Paula, but she also PR'ed over 5000 that late in the game (age 30 iirc), as did Farah. Others talk about box jumps, sit up, etc.

And then there are Paula's blood values, e.g. off-score jumps within days from 80 - 90 up to 110 - 115, and an Hb of 16.2 g/dl because of ostrich blood after suffering from anemia. Plus Healing Hans with his secret ingredient (no, not calf's blood, that is not the secret), the disappearing of her frozen samples, and her change to an anti-transparency stance, while Mo didn't open the door for the OOC tester, and trains under Aden and Salazar, two coaches of convicted drug cheats to say the least.

Trollism, you must not see at Joyceline's time, but at the position in the national lists. With 69'07" Joyceline last year was number 41 in the World and n. 24 in Kenya. THERE IS NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD CARRYING OUT OOC TEST TO AN ATHLETE N. 24 IN THE NATIONAL LIST, IN ANY EVENT, ALSO WITH THE BEST ANTIDOPING EFFORTS AND FULL DESIRE TO CATCH THE DOMESTIC DOPED ATHLETES.

Again you lost a good occasion for being silent.

I still don't know if you really are not able to understand, or want to be too smart, using everything for supporting your ideas, also when what's written has a clear different mean from what you try to "sell" to the LR readers.

Renato Canova wrote:

Nicholas Kemboi NEVER ran 1'46". There were two Nicholas Kemboi : the one running 1'46" and 3'31"5 is not the same Nicholas Kemboi I coached, who ran 26'30".

So, you are not able to distinguish one athlete from another, but want to explain how Kenya works and Kenyan athletes operate ?

All what you say is laughable.

There are also two Paula Radcliffe's. One is an unrepentant cheat. The other is a figment of my imagination.

Renato Canova wrote:

Trollism, you must not see at Joyceline's time, but at the position in the national lists. With 69'07" Joyceline last year was number 41 in the World and n. 24 in Kenya. THERE IS NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD CARRYING OUT OOC TEST TO AN ATHLETE N. 24 IN THE NATIONAL LIST, IN ANY EVENT, ALSO WITH THE BEST ANTIDOPING EFFORTS AND FULL DESIRE TO CATCH THE DOMESTIC DOPED ATHLETES.

Again you lost a good occasion for being silent.

I still don't know if you really are not able to understand, or want to be too smart, using everything for supporting your ideas, also when what's written has a clear different mean from what you try to "sell" to the LR readers.

My sides! 😂🤣🍾🥂

trollism wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

This is not a problem of Kenya : it's the problem of every athlete suddenly improving, who never was before in the whereabout system because not in top 30 in the world.

You mean it's a problem for any athlete not in the whereabouts system who comes from a country with no viable national anti-doping efforts and absolutely zero desire to catch any of their own?

From most countries she would have been OOC tested having done and probably well before the 69 minute effort.

Slow down and remember that if an athlete gets into the elite testing pool, it's the IAAF with total authority to sanction/ignore positives. We know they ignore positives, just like the IOC ignores positives.

we know national federations make positives disappear. There is reason to believe national federations are demanding bribes to bury positives. There is reason to believe positives are used to give preference to some athletes over others.

The actual number of tests is an improvement. But it is certain now that test results are used as a tool to extend corruption.

R.Canova wrote:

This is not a problem of Kenya : it's the problem of every athlete suddenly improving, who never was before in the whereabout system because not in top 30 in the world.

For your knowledge, also Irene Cheptai, world cross country champion, was not in the whereabout system.

I can bet that in near future that will be exactly MODUS OPERANDI of Rosa & assoc, Aden etc.

Bringing out untested talents since they are indeed NOT REQUIRED to be tested and won for ex. Boston and put 500000$ in pocket.

I would do like that since it is ALLOWED.

To prevent scumbegs to do that EVERYONE MUST be in whereabouts system BEFORE he/she is ALLOWED to run for MONEY in major marathons, or in Olympic games or World championships, if you are not tested in OOC system (required number of times before the event) you CAN'T compete.

This system will never be introduced due to corrupted IOC, IAAF and / or UN.

Example - someone watched that Greenpeace movie (titled Behind The Cove) of Japanese fishermen killing thousands of dolphins in one particular bay in Japan EVERY year - activists secretly filmed everything, sea was full of blood, many local people have seriously damaged health eating dolphins meat since it is full of Mercury, still that practice is not stopped you know why?

Because Japan government paid money to scumbags in UN to wote against resolution to expose Japan for that, the same scumbags who gave Soccer world cup to Oman, the same scumbags who forget Tianmen massacre and gave China Olympic games etc etc.

So I don't believe that those kind of dirty scumbags have any intention to stop doping which can be done in just 5 minutes if there is a will to do it.

Democracy = how pays better (more) for SERVICE.

Renato Canova wrote:

Trollism, you must not see at Joyceline's time, but at the position in the national lists. With 69'07" Joyceline last year was number 41 in the World and n. 24 in Kenya. THERE IS NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD CARRYING OUT OOC TEST TO AN ATHLETE N. 24 IN THE NATIONAL LIST, IN ANY EVENT, ALSO WITH THE BEST ANTIDOPING EFFORTS AND FULL DESIRE TO CATCH THE DOMESTIC DOPED ATHLETES.

Again you lost a good occasion for being silent.

I still don't know if you really are not able to understand, or want to be too smart, using everything for supporting your ideas, also when what's written has a clear different mean from what you try to "sell" to the LR readers.

She wouldn't be 24th any other national list though and would be tested OOC. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt given your limited English, but you clearly didn't understand my post.

Kenya also manages to dominate those rankings based on the limited testing. Would be fascinating to see how things would change if some of these athletes weren't given a free ride.

Do you genuinely believe Kenya wants to catch cheats?

But you made El Keniano have a giggle, so that's something. He's been a bit quiet since another big name Kenyan joined the Kenyan cheating bus. They're gonna need a double decker soon, which is weird considering the sport is going out of its way to not catch them.

Renato Canova wrote:

Again, when you speak you need to know what are you speaking about.

For now, I only look at your last paragraph.

Nicholas Kemboi NEVER ran 1'46". There were two Nicholas Kemboi : the one running 1'46" and 3'31"5 is not the same Nicholas Kemboi I coached, who ran 26'30".

So, you are not able to distinguish one athlete from another, but want to explain how Kenya works and Kenyan athletes operate ?

All what you say is laughable.

According to the IAAF:

Personal Best - Outdoor

800 Metres 1:46.65 Liège 19 JUL 2006

1500 Metres 3:45.00 01 JAN 2001

One Mile 3:56.19 Eugene (Hayward Field), OR 04 JUN 2011

3000 Metres 7:50.99 Doha 13 MAY 2005

5000 Metres 13:01.14 Zürich 15 AUG 2003

10,000 Metres 26:30.03 Bruxelles (Boudewijnstadion) 05 SEP 2003

10 Kilometres 27:57 Utrecht 25 SEP 2011

15 Kilometres 43:56 Le-Puy-en-Velay 01 MAY 2003

Half Marathon 1:00:27 Rabat 07 APR 2013

25 Kilometres 1:15:00 Praha 12 MAY 2013

Marathon 2:08:01 Valencia, ESP 27 NOV 2011

8 Kilometres 22:52 Vigevano 06 APR 2002

Nicholas Kiptanui Kemboi Personal Best - Outdoor:

800 metres – 1:47.38 (2008)

1500 metres – 3:31.52 (2010)

Mile run – 3:50.83 (2008)

It seems that the IAAF (not surprisingly) is the "laughable" party here. I only looked him up to see his PB over 5000m because I remember watching the 10,000m race back in 2003 thinking, "how the hell can this guy run 26:30 without breaking 13 mins for 5k?" My naïve conclusion back then was that this guy must have an unreal lactate threshold.

What is "laughable" to the rest of us is your admission of involvement with blood transfusions in the 1980s. That is truly disturbing.

Renato, at 72, how many years can you keep doing what you're doing? What type or how many personal assistants do you have? Is anyone writing a biography on you and/or your methodology?

Let me cut to the chase. I'd like to work for you in whatever capacity could be useful to you. What's in it for me: a deeper understanding of the nature of fitness. Are you in need of any help you don't currently have?