Race wants prize money back

Look at their 990 form available through the CA secretary of state. They spend almost as much in administrative costs as they do in benefits to the community. The $137k number is likely the total amount they have given out over 5 years (incorporated 2011). They have been retaining assets for a while (retained 45% of revenue in 2014) which would indicate they are looking to make a purchase or just don't know what to do with the money.

CPA wrote:

They actually paid 83% out. Take a closer look at their financials. They've given out 137k so far and their cost were $219k if you do the math. Just my perspective as an accountant.

It actually quite impressive how much they've given. Look at their organizations website to get an accurate picture of their donation.

http://surfingmadonna.org/where-the-money-goes/

Remind me not to go to you for anything accounting. 137K is 63% of 219K.

Also people were going off their 990 forms filed with IRS not the numbers listed on their website. If you go back a few pages you will see all this. According to their tax forms they had donated far less in their first two years. But this was explained by the race director as they were just starting out and we should see a much larger number given to their programs in the next years filings. I'm sure some Lets runners with too much time on their hands will be on the lookout for their future 990's.

They didn't start generating real revenue until the end of 2013 from their first annual race. The obviously had costs in excess of $50k from their 1st annual 2013 race (probably timing company, prize money, shirts, medals, marketing, etc) they gave part of those proceeds in 2013 after their race. Probably gave a bit more in 2014 as their race was at the end of 2013.

Move forward to 2014's race, again at the end of the year. This event cost them over $70k and they donated a significant amount of proceeds when you consider how close to the end of the year it was.

You won't be able to see the rest of their 2014 race donations until the 2015 990. I recommend you go to

www.Guidestar.org

and type in the organizations name, all their 990's are their and crucial information to those who want an in depth review of an organization.

My personal opinion and that of my co-worker who has now looked at their financial summary is that THESE GUYS ARE THE REAL DEAL.

I'm probably going to make a donation with all the sorting I've now done.

Just my opinion again as a CPA for a large firm!

the realist wrote:

Raysism wrote:

I think another problem with this situation is that the runner isn't really "keeping" this money. As the OP explained, he spent that money. So I actually would agree with you, Flagpole, up until the time that the prize winner has spent the money. If you catch the mistake the next day, then fine. But once you wait a couple of weeks, the money may be gone, and in that case, I think the moral argument of "keeping vs returning" the money is down the toilet.

(And, yes, I understand that money is fungible, but it's fair to say that making a decision based on these newly-acquired funds is the equivalent of spending the money that was earned...)

How did he spend that "money" exactly? How do we know the mney spent wasn't from other earnings?

The money has been spent. I know this because I have a separate account for my race winnings and it is almost at zero now. The money was spent on a personal matter that I do not feel comfortable discussing but I assure you that these winnings were not spent on anything that I took pleasure from like gifts, beer, or a trip. Bob has contacted all the prize winners to tell us we are under no obligation to pay the money back, to wish us a merry Christmas, and luck in the upcoming year. It was a class act and took a lot of maturity. I tried to be as factual as I possibly could when originally making this post and in my responses but I know I am only one side of a story with multiple sides involved.

I will be contacting Bob in the next couple weeks after the emotions have died down to discuss my original offer to donate what I can to the charity, donate time, or if I can fit the race into my schedule next year donate the winnings from that race.

This has been a learning experience for both parties involved and I am walking away with a different perspective than when I entered. And to Bob, if you are still reading this, I apologize for the harsh introduction to the Lets Run Community. This “Pack of Wolves” is rough around the edges but everyone here is passionate about this sport and there is a wealth of knowledge to be found here. There are characters and trolls around every corner but for the most part everyone wants to see this sport run better and grow stronger. If you are looking for advice on how to improve your race look no further than these boards.

The Surfing Madonna Beach Run is a unique race and every experience up until the one discussed on this thread was a positive one. If you are in the area and looking for a race I still highly recommend this one.

To all the posters, I read every comment and took everything to heart.

Thank you for all your advice.

Bob sounds like a good guy. Glad it worked out.

It's pointless to try an explain basic CPA accounting to you guys. Your taking nets, grosses, not factoring in overhead and a multitude of other numbers to reach your percentage. It's not that black and white.

I believe ESQUIRE even re-did the numbers and jumped from 20% to almost 70% when he realized his screw up.

Make sure you don't do your own taxes this year, you'll save yourself a bunch of money!

These guys are legit, their accounting looks good and from my perspective their doing some great things.

You must be a competing race, a sour runner or god knows what to try to make up BS like your doing.

Again look at

www.guidestar.org

and the organizations website to see how much they've donated. Don't you think they would have gotten nailed a few years ago if they were posting bogus donations on their site that they spent in their own back yard.

Its common sense. Think about it!!

Just my professional opinion as a CPA.

Classy post by the OP.

Race wants prize money back

Is this about the black boxers who were denied the right to fight for prize money in the early 20th century?

2014 Income = $84,282

Admin and Race Cost = $45,150

Services to the Community = $23,500

2015 Income = $151,040

Admin and Race Cost = $51,118

Services to the Community = $32,486

Two year total

Income = $235,322

Admin and Race = $96,268 (41%)

Services to the Community = $55,986 (24%)

Retained Earnings = $83,068 (35%)

Considering most of their services to the community consist of giving money to other npos, you are much better off giving money directly to those npos than giving to these guys IMHO. As a CPA you should realize it is more efficient to give money direct to an organization that actually provides the service than to give money to an intermediary, as again, only about 24% ends up going to the community (granted that number is likely skewed a little as the race is late in the year). Go ahead and run the race if you want, but donate elsewhere.

ebeneezer runner wrote:

A Running Christmas Carol.

This non-profit is peanut-change and looks OK.

Look at what the big guys, the non-profit marathons, give themselves for salaries. Wonder 'thons costs so much.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6732210&page=2

Good to know the race org passes the smell test. Thank you both for taking the time to check it out.

Just caught you lying JOE DIRT and shame on you. How did you possibly come up with a 2015 income statement?

2015's 990's won't show up until next year. It's not possible.

For you to state their 2015 income when 2015 is not finished is wrong and illegal.

I'm glad I started looking at this thread, finally someone caught you lying.

If you had attached your name and info with these posts you could have been sued for defamation of character. Punitive damages are a serious matter.

People like yourself should be ashamed, you just lost all credibility on this thread.

You sound like a great guy. Keep it up.

OH NO, I mislabeled 2014 as 2015 and 2013 as 2014. My god, the world is going to end. That is the correct data from their 990s, however, so I don't know where you are getting your data.

It makes a HUGE difference and you lost all your credibility with that lie, Joe Dirt.

I can't believe you actually would purposely misstate their financials.

I'm just happy you were caught lying.

Reparations! wrote:

Race wants prize money back

Is this about the black boxers who were denied the right to fight for prize money in the early 20th century?

away already!

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Source(s):

CPA wrote:

It's pointless to try an explain basic CPA accounting to you guys. Your taking nets, grosses, not factoring in overhead and a multitude of other numbers to reach your percentage. It's not that black and white.

I believe ESQUIRE even re-did the numbers and jumped from 20% to almost 70% when he realized his screw up.

Make sure you don't do your own taxes this year, you'll save yourself a bunch of money!

These guys are legit, their accounting looks good and from my perspective their doing some great things.

You must be a competing race, a sour runner or god knows what to try to make up BS like your doing.

Esquire didn't calculate any numbers, I did. And I didn't screw anything up. I merely offset the expenses and revenue by 1 year since the race director pointed out that their race is held at the end of the year and money couldn't be spent right away. I'll re-post my numbers:

In 2013, they had 84,282 in revenues. I'm going to assume the $33,787 in other expenses was for the race (though you didn't show it how you should have). So, the real revenue was $50,495.

In 2014, they had $32,486 in expenses for actual charity work (non salary or admin expenses).

Only 64% went to their causes. Not great. 80+% is the typical benchmark.

Further, your posts reek of the same appeal to legal action and blatant favoritism for the organization as the original threats by the RD. I'd bet you work for them in some manner.

If you think I've mistated the numbers somehow, feel free to show how I'm wrong by referencing the actual numbers from their tax forms.

an idea. Why don't we all chip in for an independent auditor to look over their books. If we're right they pay us back 2x our expenses. If they're right we donate 2x to their charity besides what we paid to the auditor.

What could be fairer than that?

All in favor say Aye. Opposed say Nay.

why not just let the IRS look into it?

"CPA", you need more practice trolling before you try it here

I looked at the 990s and posted some things, all of which were accurate. I never revised figures. Others have posted more detailed analysis which is much more credible than yours

The 2014 990 is questionable but we're trying to give them the benefit of the doubt

Esquire wrote:

why not just let the IRS look into it?

"CPA", you need more practice trolling before you try it here

I looked at the 990s and posted some things, all of which were accurate. I never revised figures. Others have posted more detailed analysis which is much more credible than yours

The 2014 990 is questionable but we're trying to give them the benefit of the doubt

gosh!!! I don't know how many times I try'd telling some of you genius wannabe's that i wasn't Bob. Now I find myself trying to convince some of you that I'm not CPA. Also, I'm not even trying to troll you guys. I'm just a regular n00b just like the rest of you when it comes to charities.

Why bring the IRS into this? The OP brought this delima to our attention, not the IRS, why get the Feds. involved? Let's try keeping it in "Our Family", and try to resolve it amicably, but with double or nothing cash on the line for the party proven in the right. What have we got to lose? I mean, we are smarter than a loaf of bread, aren't we? We could/should win a bet like this hands down!!!

I say "everything to gain, nothing to lose." Who's with me?