That's a good long run, though the GAP is probably pretty generous since the entire second half was downhill. What interests me though is that he claims to have consumed 140g of carbs per hour. That's 350g (1400 cal) total. Anyone else find that hard to believe? That would be roughly 11-12 Precision Fuel gels over 2.5 hours. Of course a large portion of the carbs likely came from fluids, not gels, but still. That's a very high intake rate.
This run is less impressive than it appears. Look into his strava stats. His moving time is 2:26:04 but his total activity time is 2:45:12. While his recorded pace is 6:37 his overall pace was 7:29/mile. His fastest 13.1 section is at 7:03 pace and mostly on the downhill portion.
If you look at his GAP pace, it looks like he is pausing his watch every 3-5k on the way up the mountain to take a break and recover. He then barrels down the mountain, takes a break, runs a hard stride, takes another break, and then finishes.
I know several fairly high level runners that have had basically career ending overuse injuries under Roche "coaching." To be fair injuries can happen to anyone, but I think they certainly 'burn it hotter' compared to most and probably (most likely) don't care to take the time to personalize the training schedules and workouts for all their individual athletes who may be racing different events on different weeks. When you're copying and pasting basically the same workout templates for dozens and dozens of runners all at the same time it can be easy to overtrain someone!
Speaking of the copy and pasting - it’s so easy to scroll through Strava and determine who’s coached by the Roches! All of their athletes have nearly identical workouts week to week, regardless of the date of the race or distance they are training for. “Personalized coaching,” L-O-L.
I've watched a few of his videos and genuinely don't think they're too bad. The personality and claims, are good for stirring the pot and generating interest. Any interest is trail running..... is good interest.
On the dislike side, I agree with coaching angle. If he's not giving personalized coaching and/or coaching that burns athletes out that's unacceptable and needs to be called out.
I'm not coached myself and have made (a lot) of significant training errors. A good coach would no doubt improve me, but a bad one absolutely mess me up. It's coaching like this, that puts me off trying. I'm risk adverse so staying in the middle, as I don't want to pay for something that could make me worse (even though a good coach, who actually personalizes, I accept, would be beneficial).
That's a good long run, though the GAP is probably pretty generous since the entire second half was downhill. What interests me though is that he claims to have consumed 140g of carbs per hour. That's 350g (1400 cal) total. Anyone else find that hard to believe? That would be roughly 11-12 Precision Fuel gels over 2.5 hours. Of course a large portion of the carbs likely came from fluids, not gels, but still. That's a very high intake rate.
This run is less impressive than it appears. Look into his strava stats. His moving time is 2:26:04 but his total activity time is 2:45:12. While his recorded pace is 6:37 his overall pace was 7:29/mile. His fastest 13.1 section is at 7:03 pace and mostly on the downhill portion.
If you look at his GAP pace, it looks like he is pausing his watch every 3-5k on the way up the mountain to take a break and recover. He then barrels down the mountain, takes a break, runs a hard stride, takes another break, and then finishes.
More dishonest content for YouTube.
Okay so he rested for 25-min between film shots and to take his 560 calories an hour of carb goo or whatever he claims. And maybe to go for some short, random Strava segments.
Buuuuut look at that huge kick in the last 25 seconds or so! Low 4min mile pace. I already predict this ridiculously fast finish will make it into the Youtube edit. He hit 200 spm on his stride for those final seconds too!
Not sure why he is ''thinking of Kilian''. Kilian is not going to win Western States, that's not his race. Gun for Kilian at Sierre Zinal or Zegama, then it'll mean something.
But that’s just it. Until he snagged a golden ticket to WSER, David’s running career was mostly finishing near the top of 2nd tier races. That’s not to say he lacks talent. He’s an incredibly talented runner. But there’s a reason you haven’t seen him toeing the line at Zegama, Sierre-Zinal, UTMB/CCC, TNF 50, JFK, Speedgoat or any of the other top tier races with deep fields.
What David accomplished at Leadville and Javelina is obviously special, but the fields at those races weren’t nearly as competitive as, say, Black Canyons. I would argue that the strongest competition David has raced against was maybe Canyons (2023, 5th) or perhaps one of the trail world championship races where he was buried in the field.
Who knows though. Maybe David steps up and knocks this one out of the park. What I predict will happen is he goes out at CR pace, dies around the river, and then someone like Jim or Hayden cruise to the win and CR. Of course then we’ll have to hear David talk for weeks about how he assisted the current WSER CR.
But that’s just it. Until he snagged a golden ticket to WSER, David’s running career was mostly finishing near the top of 2nd tier races. That’s not to say he lacks talent. He’s an incredibly talented runner. But there’s a reason you haven’t seen him toeing the line at Zegama, Sierre-Zinal, UTMB/CCC, TNF 50, JFK, Speedgoat or any of the other top tier races with deep fields.
What David accomplished at Leadville and Javelina is obviously special, but the fields at those races weren’t nearly as competitive as, say, Black Canyons. I would argue that the strongest competition David has raced against was maybe Canyons (2023, 5th) or perhaps one of the trail world championship races where he was buried in the field.
Who knows though. Maybe David steps up and knocks this one out of the park. What I predict will happen is he goes out at CR pace, dies around the river, and then someone like Jim or Hayden cruise to the win and CR. Of course then we’ll have to hear David talk for weeks about how he assisted the current WSER CR.
But that’s just it. Until he snagged a golden ticket to WSER, David’s running career was mostly finishing near the top of 2nd tier races. That’s not to say he lacks talent. He’s an incredibly talented runner. But there’s a reason you haven’t seen him toeing the line at Zegama, Sierre-Zinal, UTMB/CCC, TNF 50, JFK, Speedgoat or any of the other top tier races with deep fields.
What David accomplished at Leadville and Javelina is obviously special, but the fields at those races weren’t nearly as competitive as, say, Black Canyons. I would argue that the strongest competition David has raced against was maybe Canyons (2023, 5th) or perhaps one of the trail world championship races where he was buried in the field.
Who knows though. Maybe David steps up and knocks this one out of the park. What I predict will happen is he goes out at CR pace, dies around the river, and then someone like Jim or Hayden cruise to the win and CR. Of course then we’ll have to hear David talk for weeks about how he assisted the current WSER CR.
No matter what the outcome, he will be sure to shout it out to every corner of the internet. I don’t care if the guy wins or loses, I just wish he would shut up for a minute. He thinks he’s an expert on everything (nutrition, bloodwork, injury rehab, training theory, etc..) it’s just over the top.
But that’s just it. Until he snagged a golden ticket to WSER, David’s running career was mostly finishing near the top of 2nd tier races. That’s not to say he lacks talent. He’s an incredibly talented runner. But there’s a reason you haven’t seen him toeing the line at Zegama, Sierre-Zinal, UTMB/CCC, TNF 50, JFK, Speedgoat or any of the other top tier races with deep fields.
What David accomplished at Leadville and Javelina is obviously special, but the fields at those races weren’t nearly as competitive as, say, Black Canyons. I would argue that the strongest competition David has raced against was maybe Canyons (2023, 5th) or perhaps one of the trail world championship races where he was buried in the field.
Who knows though. Maybe David steps up and knocks this one out of the park. What I predict will happen is he goes out at CR pace, dies around the river, and then someone like Jim or Hayden cruise to the win and CR. Of course then we’ll have to hear David talk for weeks about how he assisted the current WSER CR.
No matter what the outcome, he will be sure to shout it out to every corner of the internet. I don’t care if the guy wins or loses, I just wish he would shut up for a minute. He thinks he’s an expert on everything (nutrition, bloodwork, injury rehab, training theory, etc..) it’s just over the top.
Exactly. The holier than thou mentality that he is the world's best coach, ultrarunner, nutrition expert, scientist, doctor, biologist, lawyer, the list goes on and on and on. The hubris is actually out of control.
Heres Ultrarunning Magazines list for north American top
Here is the final top 10 list for male North American Ultrarunner of the Year: Hayden Hawks David Roche David Sinclair Rod Farvard Eli Hemming Caleb Olson Jim Walmsley Harry Subertas Ben Dhiman Ihor Verys
How many of the above are going to race western states? I feel no-one can really know how good of 100 mile shape they are in until about 10 to 6 weeks before.
world's best lawyer? ha, even if he was a pretty good lawyer he'd be making low 7 figures by now. law practice is pretty brutal and he got smacked early on, which is not surprising for a number of reasons....
Heres Ultrarunning Magazines list for north American top
Here is the final top 10 list for male North American Ultrarunner of the Year: Hayden Hawks David Roche David Sinclair Rod Farvard Eli Hemming Caleb Olson Jim Walmsley Harry Subertas Ben Dhiman Ihor Verys
How many of the above are going to race western states? I feel no-one can really know how good of 100 mile shape they are in until about 10 to 6 weeks before.
Thoughts and comments
Hawks, Roche, Farvard, Olson, Walmsley are all slated to be there
What interests me though is that he claims to have consumed 140g of carbs per hour. That's 350g (1400 cal) total. Anyone else find that hard to believe?
That's obviously overkill and unnecessary for a run that length. But training the gut to consumer that rate of carbs to prepare to do so for a 14 hour race makes sense. The dude might be nuts, but he's not a complete idiot with some of the things he does to train.