Just Sayin'. wrote:
Roderick Powell wrote:
They're about three blocks apart, but in an earlier post, someone pointed out what looks like Frank in the red circle.
https://imgur.com/a/4Q6VQBkLooks like Frank to me.
Agree, but we need someone who's not a cheapskate like me or a cheap bastárd like 'YMMV' to buy a high resolution copy.
Great work 'deadesq'
Good chance it’s him. I don’t think the hi-res would be definitive.
Missing Mats wrote:
doubler ying double yang wrote:
WHAT!!!
Are you doublers double?
Don't think doubler has noticed that both the father and son that you are referring to missed the same 5 timing mats.
The Master investigator also said earlier in this thread that he didn’t think frank cheated either.
More practice needed. wrote:
See you're still having problems with boxing your quoting Rod.
once in a while, especially when I hurry and don't preview
franks finished off now wrote:
the standing on the side and jumping in ones are the real killers would really finish it off
Added to the map, with yellow pins to highlight on the map.
https://imgur.com/a/uTqGD6Mhttps://imgur.com/a/fMoo2LfDeadesq amazing work on the map and sheets. Keep adding to it as needed. This is incredible
letsrunstacks wrote:
Deadesq amazing work on the map and sheets. Keep adding to it as needed. This is incredible
Thanks, LRS....I'll add anything people think is missing, but I'm hoping this map will be the one-stop shopping for anyone looking for comprehensive evidence. It's hard going through all the LR threads. Feel free to re-share the link to the map.
https://bit.ly/2Xw29tdhttps://imgur.com/a/YzfZaExdeadesq wrote:
Thanks, LRS....I'll add anything people think is missing,
these two? wrote:
https://imgur.com/a/YzfZaExdeadesq wrote:
Thanks, LRS....I'll add anything people think is missing,
Frank!
You’re going the wrong way, buddy!
Orville Reddenbocker wrote:
I went through a whole bag of popcorn and still didn’t read all of that. Too long didn’t finish.
You must be a lot of fun at parties!
And you must be a tween.
My source at Penguin Random House said these soon to be running classics are in the works. Three different authors, three different sides to the story.
Catch-26.2 (Thriller/Mystery)
L.A.M. Confidential (Insider Tell All)
All Quiet on the BroJo Front (Young Adults)
FYI...
Third party Frank Notes for these books will be available at an additional price. In case you’re wondering, Frank Notes are similar to Cliff Notes except they’re written for the average Letsrun moran. One page of Frank Notes condenses 20 minutes worth of reading! Also, the producer claims to promote the reading of the original work but views the study guides as a legitimate substitute for reading the entire book.
First 100 preorders will receive a free “moran” T-shirt!
Frank Meza Publisher wrote:
FYI...
Third party Frank Notes for these books will be available at an additional price. In case you’re wondering, Frank Notes are similar to Cliff Notes
FYI...
The proper word is CliffsNotes. (add the "s" and only one word)
Frank Meza Publisher wrote:
My source at Penguin Random House said these soon to be running classics are in the works. Three different authors, three different sides to the story.
Catch-26.2 (Thriller/Mystery)
L.A.M. Confidential (Insider Tell All)
All Quiet on the BroJo Front (Young Adults)
FYI...
Third party Frank Notes for these books will be available at an additional price. In case you’re wondering, Frank Notes are similar to Cliff Notes except they’re written for the average Letsrun moran. One page of Frank Notes condenses 20 minutes worth of reading! Also, the producer claims to promote the reading of the original work but views the study guides as a legitimate substitute for reading the entire book.
First 100 preorders will receive a free “moran” T-shirt!
count me in! I really want the “moran” t-shirt!
ThanKs, I missed that between autocorrect and a brain cramp. I’m a moran.
Little Known Bit of Meaningless Dribble wrote:
Frank Meza Publisher wrote:
FYI...
Third party Frank Notes for these books will be available at an additional price. In case you’re wondering, Frank Notes are similar to Cliff Notes
FYI...
The proper word is CliffsNotes. (add the "s" and only one word)
Well. If you're being a pedant, then the proper word is drivel, not dribble.
Frank Meza Publisher wrote:
ThanKs, I missed that between autocorrect and a brain cramp. I’m a moran.
don’t beat yourself up. at least you aren’t a looser.
RossiCheated wrote:
doubler wrote:
I stated that I had missed the posts about them missing the same timing mats. Although I haven’t looked at their results myself- going on what was posted.
But, if the only issue was that they mixed up bibs, it is very conceivable that it would have been unintentional. So, yes , I’d be opposed to calling runners ‘cheaters’ without having an idea of the intention. If a time was used for Boston, then we would know the intention.
LA has, in the past, been very quick to DQ runners that have used bib mules, or sold their bibs. They have not been quick to DQ course cutters.
My point was (when only knowing of the bib swap) that I’m opposed to calling out runners publicly without knowing their intention.
I appreciate your response. I sincerely hope we do t see a Boston registration from this and we can shrug it off as some guys who mistakenly swapped bibs and did a run from home to the finish, as suggested above.
But we do seem to have one question answered by their inclusion in the results.
Does the L.A. Marathon use mat times, missed mats, and split times to check for the authenticity of finishers before making results official?
No. They do not.
The position that this is a second-rate, bush-league event gains more traction.
I agree with everything you wrote except that LA is second rate. It's lower than that.
deadesq wrote:
PB70 wrote:
Dear Dr. Meza:
Poster 'deadesq' mentioned that he (or she) tends to be "a person who wants to make the world a better place". You might not think very highly of 'deadesq' because that poster also produces these very informative photo sheets, which I think clearly corroborate Derek Murphy's results and conclusions. But since I think I am cast in the same mold as 'deadesq', please allow me to add a few thoughts for perspective.
Thanks, PB70. Your suggestions really moved me, and I hope Frank takes you up on this. I am fairly sure he won't, but it was worth a try.
I'm going to give one last bit of material for you all to chew on, and Doubler, if you want to link to this, feel free, crediting deadesq if you don't mind.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P3DhnAuOLJS6t6ZudGeHv5aCKwiQAQ_Y&usp=sharingThis is a Google map of the LA Marathon course. I've got the Km markers on it, although they're probably a little off without me going and running the course myself. Please let me know if you know exactly where the timing mats were, and I'll update the map.
You can interact with the map, and on the left hand side, there are check boxes where Frank IS present, and where he IS NOT. Green for present, red for absent. I didn't bother with the finish chute cameras, since I knew Frank was there.
If you click on the individual pins on the map, there will be a link to the contact sheet from that location, so you can view each of these yourselves. I found a few more sets of photos were Frank was present, but his number was covered. They're right where you'd expect them to be-near the timing mats. And looking at this overall, I can see generally Frank's path from timing mat to timing mat. My best guess is an e-Bike, but I did give some brief thought to how hard it would be to duplicate a timing chip's RFID signature. That's another thread, I suspect, and it would have required help.
A couple observations. The general area around Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills is between the 25K and 30K mats. Frank missed this entire area, on three separate sets of photos in that area. Overall, I found nine cameras on the course that Frank missed.
The kicker for me, though, is near the end, on Ocean Avenue, there were two cameras near Palisades Park. One was somewhere between Georgina & Marguerita. The other was closer to Palisades. Frank appears on the Palisades one, but not the earlier one on Ocean Avenue. They're about three blocks apart, but in an earlier post, someone pointed out what looks like Frank in the red circle.
https://imgur.com/a/4Q6VQBkGiven the fact that this photo was taken at the Palisades location, I have reconsidered my earlier thoughts that it was not Frank. I now think it is. And I think he probably came up to Ocean Avenue via Palisades, then jumped on the course at the appropriate time to kick it in.
So, I think I'm pretty much done with everything I can do on this. It's up to the LA Marathon now. It's been fun, all. I hope you've enjoyed the stuff I've found.
So let me get this straight, FM only showed up in photos when the camera was near a timing mat?
Frank Meza Publisher wrote:
My source at Penguin Random House said these soon to be running classics are in the works. Three different authors, three different sides to the story.
Catch-26.2 (Thriller/Mystery)
L.A.M. Confidential (Insider Tell All)
All Quiet on the BroJo Front (Young Adults)
FYI...
Third party Frank Notes for these books will be available at an additional price. In case you’re wondering, Frank Notes are similar to Cliff Notes except they’re written for the average Letsrun moran. One page of Frank Notes condenses 20 minutes worth of reading! Also, the producer claims to promote the reading of the original work but views the study guides as a legitimate substitute for reading the entire book.
First 100 preorders will receive a free “moran” T-shirt!
With all of the potty stops, there is "Diarrhea And Frank".
If he hired an Uber for all of this: "Vanity Fare".
I don't think this thread is over. Not by a long shot. An incomplete list of FM's races has over 60 races stretching back 3 decades, and there are results and photos and other evidence to scrutinize for at least 20 races over the last 5 years at least. Of those, maybe 4 races have gotten a careful analysis.
This will present some facts that will help narrow down the method (as it had been refined by 2017, at least), and suggest what role others may have played.
The 2017 Long Beach Marathon is another interesting case. A lot of it is familiar: No missed timing mats, but no photos between around mile 5.6 (Rainbow Harbor Bike Path) and just over a half mile to the end (Ocean Boulevard). FM does not appear in the photos from the Belmont Pier Bike Path (around mile 9) and Cal State Long Beach (somewhere in miles 17-19). FM has run this race at least 7 times, but we're only looking at 2017 here. That's the most recent race of any kind in which FM did not get the AG win - because his finishing time was good enough for 3rd Masters, removing him from the 60-69 division. The official race site is here:
https://www.motivrunning.com/run-longbeach/race/results/
There is also a video of the start available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=513G8NOyK84
Definitely check out the announcer's commentary at 1:53. You seriously don't want to miss it.
The race starts at 0:15 in the video, and with FM crossing the starting line 2:44 after gun time, that puts him at the start at 2:59 of the video. And sure enough, FM walks across the screen from 2:40 to 2:45, with some of his number (#1871) visible. So that would rule out his using a bib mule at the starting line. On the other hand, you can see just how many people start the marathon ahead of him. He's not dead last, but he's near the tail end.
By the 10K mat, he's moved up to 30th place out of over 1700 runners.
After that, FM is recorded on the timing mats, but not by photographers until there's around a half mile to go. At this point, he's around a group of 3 half-marathoners. #11402, 12202, and 12930 appear just before and after FM remembers to adjust his bib in this picture:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1011/0010.jpg?preset=p
Now FM is coming in hot at a pace of 6:33 for his last 10K, while #12202 is a hobby jogger who runs his last 6.9 miles at a pace of 8:02/mile, but FM doesn't gain the expected 45 seconds on him over the last half mile. FM and #12202 finish at almost exactly the same time, 9:07:05 AM. These things happen; you're tired at the end of a near-record marathon, and young guys can pick it up at the end.
And then FM goes for a jog and finishes the race again.
There's a second set of pictures of FM jogging down Ocean Blvd., this time - at first - with none other than his friend, colleague and fellow Loyola coach, PB:
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-01/04/817104/1040/0007.jpg?preset=p
They don't stay together long, though. FM drops back and crosses the finish line again at 3:23:56 (9:33:56 AM). PB has already crossed the HM finish line at 2:03:04 (9:33:04 AM). But they do get together to chat afterwards.
https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2017-02/93/817093/1012/0042.jpg?preset=p
Now this is where things get weird.
The marathon was supposed to start at 6:00 AM, and the HM at 7:30. But there's only 1 hour 20 minutes separating the clock times of simultaneous HM/marathon finishers. Either the HM started 10 minutes early, which is quite unlikely, or the marathon started 10 minutes late.
(If the marathon had started on time, a LRC regular poster would have finished his HM just seconds before FM finished his marathon. Brushes with fame...)
You wouldn't think that FM's race starting late would be a big deal. He doesn't hit the start line until 2:44 anyway.
But note what PB does: He starts his half marathon 15 minutes after the gun sounds. There are nearly 8,000 entrants in the race, and PB gives them up to a 15 minute head start. He finishes in 552nd place.
This isn't actually typical for PB; in the 2016 race, he ran 1:38:54, starting just 1:12 after the gun sounds.
Is this just accidental? FM unexpectedly starts 10 minutes late, and then PB gets stuck in a portajohn and starts 15 minutes late? Stranger things have happened. And PB is never in a position to mule a timing chip for FM; he's got his own timing mats to hit.
Or maybe having PB finishing his HM a while after FM finishes his marathon is useful. Figuring out the purpose it may serve is an exercise left to the reader.
So again, there are multiple interpretations of the evidence. But the speed suggested by the timing mats does not match the observed speeds, there are missed photos, there's an inexplicable late start for a sub-3 marathoner, and PB's extremely late start after FM's race delay is very odd. There are a lot of races left to look at. Who know what patterns will emerge.
maybe this wrote:
I don't think this thread is over. Not by a long shot. An incomplete list of FM's races has over 60 races stretching back 3 decades, and there are results and photos and other evidence to scrutinize for at least 20 races over the last 5 years at least. Of those, maybe 4 races have gotten a careful analysis.
The race starts at 0:15 in the video, and with FM crossing the starting line 2:44 after gun time, that puts him at the start at 2:59 of the video. And sure enough, FM walks across the screen from 2:40 to 2:45, with some of his number (#1871) visible. So that would rule out his using a bib mule at the starting line. On the other hand, you can see just how many people start the marathon ahead of him. He's not dead last, but he's near the tail end.
Yeah, MaybeThis. Frank's a tricky guy.
https://imgur.com/a/LHfKq3aThe runner in front of Frank, #627, crossed the start line at 2:41 after the gun. Frank crossed at 2:44. So, I totally believe your math is correct. That's the one thing that's bothered me, though, about LA Marathon 2019. It started at Dodger Stadium. Getting to the 5K mat is no mean feat in 20 minutes, especially if you start a little late. Look at where it is. It's up on a hill, and the 5K mat is no straight line. This took some serious pre-planning.
https://bit.ly/2Xw29td
