USA Basketball Player Stephen Curry (Golden State, California) doesn't think that USA Astronauts ever landed on Earth's Moon

No one is more useless and jejune than a time-wasting believer in bogus conspiracy theories. Yawn.

Often these are people for whom absolutely NOTHING can constitute proof. An even more sincere yawn.

If it's so easy to fake a moon landing, how come Bhutan hasn't managed it yet?

Science bro wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

classic....how lame to think they have to keep trying to fool us

Ha! Ha!

Devon Island is a NASA testing center. No secret there. Wow! yeah, that guy has really cracked a big secret. What a moron!

Assuming you mean 'm!ndweak', then yes, correct, as it's been scientifically proven here by the LetsRun sleuths and truth seekers that he's a moron.

Just asking. wrote:

I mean it's not like the hoax way back in the day of trying to convince someone the Loch Ness Monster existed when all you needed was a grainy photo and good story.

The poor old monster must have died as no one is able to get a photo these days even though nearly everyone carries an instant camera and video apparatus in the palm of their hand.

I’m not a scientist or engineer, so I will leave the discussion of Van Allen belts to experts. However, I am a social scientist and what is still simply not believable to me after all of this discussion is the scale of the cover up across multiple organizations and levels of government that would have been required.

In its peak years the NASA budget was around 4.5% of the total US budget. In 1969 there were over 200,000 employees working directly or indirectly for NASA, down from over 400,000 in 1962. If the only thing NASA produced in 1969 and the immediate years following were black and white movies, with obvious mistakes, I have to wonder what all of those people were actually doing. Every dollar the agency spent would need to be accounted for, from salaries to payments to contractors. Many thousands of documents would have needed to be falsified. Not only would thousands of people need to know about the cover up, but many would actually need to be trained in certain tasks related to it.

https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4102/ch5.htm

https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4012/vol4/ch3.htm

And another thing, it is not believable that top NASA officials would have decided on their own to perpetual a giant hoax on the American public. The risk of discovery would have been too great and if the scheme was uncovered it would have probably meant a lengthy prison sentence. Besides, these were unelected civil employees. What would motivate them do to this? Clearly, the top brass in the military would need to be aware as well as top officials in the government. Someone would have needed to approve. If fact, it seems very likely that top elected officials, included at least two presidents, would have known about the plot.

While the hoaxers have provided a lot of “scientific” proof, they have provided no evidence of how the cover up was implemented. As far as the actual launch of the Saturn rockets, here are explanations so far on this thread:

The Saturn V rockets did not exist or were never launched (despite thousands of eye-witnesses).

The rockets were launched with the astronauts on board, but were sent into low orbit around the earth for four days and then returned. Of course if the capsules were really in low orbit many people, including the Soviets, would have known this.

The rockets were launched unmanned (who knows where) and at the appropriate time the capsule with the astronauts inside was dropped from a plane so the splashdown could be witnessed.

LQ says he has done a lot of research and I believe him, but maybe some hoaxers should research the answers to these questions:

Who conceived of the hoax and when?

Who was involved and how high up did it go?

Who made the decision to carry it out?

Were the Saturn V rockets actually built and launched?

If so, were the astronauts on board?

Another hoax being perpetrated upon us:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2018/12/14/with-virgin-galactics-latest-flight-has-space-tourism-finally-arrived/#2c176d8c43d9

is this you jonO? im sure you think EPO doesnt work huh?

i was in 8th grade when i thought "no way we went to the moon", waaaay before i ever knew there was others that thought that way. why cant we fake it again? cause the tech is too good these days and would fig it out in no time...they got lucky with sh*tty black and white tv's with static lines running in them. faking it worked out, cant fake it now with all the HD 4k tvs out there and all the scrutiny that would surely follow. ever notice how every single pic they claim from hubble says

"artist rendition of the crab nebula" or whatever?

and yes they ADMITTED it was the training ground for the mars robots...but pretty classic that they could indeed FAKE it with red filter...dont be so naive, question EVERYTHING is what i say. i will never blinding follow anything just cause someone calls me an idiot if i question it.

bully me cause i dont believe? wow i thought in 2018 the SJW's were about equality, accepting of others, and not offending anyone....but if you dont think like they think, well you get bullied lolz

let me guess, you got to a mid major D1, with a degree in astro physics, you run sub 14 in trainers and have a super model wife, and when you graduate you will make $250k a year.

and let me explain that a bit more, it was because my 8th grade science teacher planted the idea that we never went in a very subtle way. dont worry he was very very smart, Cal Berkeley and ACTUALLY got a job at NASA in he early 70s. he said growing up he always wanted to be an astronaut, and then got hired on at NASA. he always claimed he quit because he felt like he could do more by teaching kids instead. very smart guy for sure, and very strict, only the most worthless failed his class.

Anyway, it seems there are some people who actually believe it was a hoax and possible in this day and age to get away with it, my question is:

Why would they (whoever they are) go to all the time, bother and expense, what's in it for them?

False premise: the question is whether it was possible in 1969-1972 to hoax the "man on moon" theory.

Obviously, filling up JFK's legacy and beating Soviets in Western-hyped "space race" was salient.

You shouldn't feel a need to apologize! Indeed there ISN'T any "scientific" evidence of USA astronauts landing on Earth's Moon, and the only reason some people believe it is as a historical (social science) fact. Which is its own valid milieu, though confused anti-hoax believers conflate the nomenclatures continually, pretensing it is "science" that proves their case, when their only evidence is indeed de facto one of social historicity.

Untrue that 1000s would need to know. Command and control government systems make it easy to fool others. Just like splicing in the fake tape into the enemies' surveillance while you swipe their goods (see Ocean's 11, not Apollo 11!). Everyone downstream just *assumes* everything is working, when in fact it's all a hoax.

LBJ + Nixon would need to know. The Deep State bumped off JFK before he knew what was up, and Nixon was coerced to resign (again DS) by a plant third-rate burglar into his election regime, leading Judge Sirica to work with the Watergate prosecutors to remove Tricky Dick. Why all that?? Well, maybe they just disliked a West Coast guy (Nixon himself mused this)... but really, the plot MUST be thicker (by social science again!). Unless it's part of the JFK coverup, the ONLY thing as big is the SPACE RACE (which was unneeded after Bobby Fischer showed USA superiority over Boris Spassky in chess world championship 1972, right when the Apollos shut down).

Excellent questions! Unforuntately, USA grant/investigation monies go to unhinged "prosecutors" rather than science historians who might upset the USA govt narrative. So we can only surmise.

Likely, the hoax was nascently conceived during the JFK campaign, with his constant mention of the moon idea. Everyone already knew (van Allen and more) that the technical insurmountabilities lie in the way, but appeasing the philandering JFK ego seemed the wisest way to go. He, of course, never knew, was too busy banging up chicks like Mimi while fiascoing the Bay of Pigs. The Texas Nov 1963 wasn't likely related directly to space, though at some point it might have come to a head. Since LBJ was an "insider" of DS (as was Nixon, despite his complaints to contrary), he of/c knew the up-and-up. The top 5 or 10 NASA dudes, a few technicians, 10-20 careerist astronauts, and some side scrofula, while everyone worked on the presumed "project" largely compartamentalized so that no one would realize it didn't fit all together. The decision to carry it out would of course be OK'd by LBJ+Nixon, but then again, it's easy for advisors to make the "choice" for them be obvious. The real culprits if you call them that, would be NASA admins in making the decision.

Clearly Saturn V rockets were actually built and launched! Otherwise the hoax would be clear. But no human astronauts were on board. Simple tricks, like magicians. Easy to escapade them elsewhere.

Overall, you just seem to way overestimate (bias) the amount of coverup needed, when an analysis of power structures could indubitably make the case more evident for a much smaller coterie. It's a matter of perspective, and indeed experience for some.

Try reading the rest of the thread wrote:

Anyway, it seems there are some people who actually believe it was a hoax and possible in this day and age to get away with it, my question is:

Why would they (whoever they are) go to all the time, bother and expense, what's in it for them?

False premise: the question is whether it was possible in 1969-1972 to hoax the "man on moon" theory.

Obviously, filling up JFK's legacy and beating Soviets in Western-hyped "space race" was salient.

Obviously it was "1969-1972" era, I think what was being alluded to is that "in this day and age" there are still people who "believe it was a hoax and possible to get away".

old and naive wrote:

In its peak years the NASA budget was around 4.5% of the total US budget. In 1969 there were over 200,000 employees working directly or indirectly for NASA, down from over 400,000 in 1962.

Yeah, and I want to know where the feck my Australian tax dollars went in this hoax:

Lots of hoaxing and holes in that article :).

Legit question wrote:

Truth vs Propaganda wrote:

I'm still on the fence here... what do the LRO pictures of Soviet landing sites (unmanned) look like?

Or does NASA not catalogue those? I'd like to see them for comparison.

Does this look real to you? Or is that a NASA employee operating a toy model before running away from the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnotq8lKNQw

That was the reflection of the astronauts head on the glass window they were looking out of while they filmed this.

@ground control....

I agree with all your points regarding the moon landing. This topic is a great example of people's ability to follow "motivated reasoning" where they focus only on evidence favorable to their view and ignore counter evidence. However, the moon landing debate doesn't boil down to faith in science versus religious. I'm sure you could find plenty of atheists who are moon landing skeptics, and plenty of creationists who think we did go to the moon. The moon landing skeptics use what they perceive as valid scientific evidence to prove their theory. They aren't stupid, they don't deny all the common accepted notions of scientific reality, they just are motivated to reach a conclusion, and see evidence only in light of the conclusion they want to draw. The sad truth is that everyone, depending on the topic, is just as prone to the same kind of "motivated reasoning" to one degree or another. I don't think there is a single position that any of us hold that doesn't have some degree of motivated reasoning behind it. So the question is how much motivated reasoning is blinding this person on any particular topic. The main clue that someone is highly ensconced in motivated reasoning on a topic is indicated by their ability to listen to and understand the evidence presented that is counter to their position. They still may not agree with their adversaries interpretation of the evidence, but at least being able to continue the debate is an indication that they only have a small degree of motivated reasoning influencing their opinion.

So a pragmatic rule of thumb is you follow the conversation back and forth, and the first one to stop engaging constructively with the other side is usually the person who is wrong. What's so ironic is that when the ESPN guy first criticized Stephen Curry over this topic, he did not do it in a constructive way. He just sort of accused Stephen of "wrong think" and demanded an apology. The moon hoaxers tend to be people who really hate arguments based on empty appeals to authority, so their motivated reasoning kicks into gear and they become more rigid in their opinion. The funny thing about this whole situation is that the ESPN guy created more moon hoaxers with his stupid totalitarian attitude response, than Stephen Curry's statement would ever have produced if it was just ignored or if someone asked Stephen "really? that's a rare opinion. What's your evidence?"

You hit the nail on the head. If the hoaxers would start "researching" what would be required to pull of a hoax like this, their own position wouldn't seem so solid.

I have no problem with asking a question. I don't trust the government to be honest, they will get away with any lie they can. I don't think NASA is a particularly useful or competent agency. However, believing the hoax is real, is harder than believing the landing is real.

Looks like this Aussie created a system to remove the 3.5 second delay in the NASA to Moon audio conversations.

Conspiracy theorists typically are dissatisfied with life and search for minority explainations that give them a sense of control and power. It's quite common now--even trendy. Unfortunately, conspiracies are culturally erosive. They undercut the common facts that hold us together. Mistrust in social structures (NASA) is healthy to a degree, but understand that its much harder to build and maintain these structures than to tear them down. Conspiracy theorists are at best cavalier and at worst a virus. In either case, they need to pause, look hard in the mirror and act on the best evidence; not the evidence that makes them feel important.

References to 3 or 3.5 seconds transmission delay in this thread are, at best, deceptive. The speed of light and other electromagnetic radiation in a vacuum (for which space is a good approximation) is given as 186,282 mi/sec, often rounded to 186,000 mi/sec. The average distance from the earth to the moon is about 238,000 mi. Therefore, the transmission delay for radio transmission from earth to moon is approximately 1.3 sec, or about 1.35 sec for the max separation of about 252,000 mi. This delay would be barely discernible in a normal conversation, especially in a context where the recipient would need to mentally process poor quality audio in order to ensure understanding of the information being conveyed.

Perhaps, though, certain individuals in this thread have made the amazing discovery of slow light, or slow radio transmissions, and the rest of us poor beings just don't understand, or maybe we are just being duped again by NASA.