IIort_vbo unregistered wrote:
llort_vbo is a long time troll on LRC. He has been called out as an a-whole many times.
Policy guy wrote:You"be been schooled over and over so you keep changing subjects - the sign of a defeated man.
A troll? At least I post under a registered name and don't change handles, Policy Guy.
Policy Guy
zzzz wrote:
Like the other Lagat defenders, I don't see his 5000 performance as out of his range, even at his age.
What the whiners cannot handle iabout the bogus A test is the vast number of additional samples Lagat has given since then. Why would an obvious cheater continue to compete and risk getting caught for real? Lagat's times have remained exceptional. Certainly the same person/people can't be covering things up; the time length is too long for that level of coverup consistency.
zzzz wrote:
rekrunner wrote:Maybe I missed it -- where do you find that the A-Sample was frozen before testing?
My reading of the "lagatfull.doc" report, published at "letsrun" in 2003:
- Both A and B samples were mis-handled
- Neither A nor B sample was frozen, until the refrigerated B-Sample six days later
- Both A and B samples showed EPO modifying enzymatic activity
- The enzymatic activity had also altered the controls "rhEpo and Nesp"
- The B sample failed to corroborate the A sample findings (this doesn't mean the B-sample test result was a "negative", but that it was different than the A-sample result) because of the six days of progress of the enzymatic activity (reportedly present in both samples)
- After the failed corroboration, and upon closer re-inspection, the A-sample did not match synthetic EPO references either
- Had the B-Sample been frozen right away, this would have corroborated the A-sample finding, resulting in a tragic outcome for Lagat, as the disturbing enzymatic activity would have gone unnoticed
- All five "experts" involved in the B-sample analysis unanimously agreed that there was no synthetic EPO in either urine sample
That's what I remember also from back then too. The A sample was misread and never contained EPO. Rojo, if you are still wanting to reinvestigate that 2003 test, start with the document stored on your site:
http://www.letsrun.com/2003/lagatfull.docMaybe some of the 5 "experts" were trying to cover up a positive, so that would be a possible angle for re-examination - people are mentioning Dr. Saugy. If the raw data from the tests are still available, maybe it can be reinterpreted if necessary by other, trusted experts. For now, I am assuming that that document has the correct final story on that test.
Like the other Lagat defenders, I don't see his 5000 performance as out of his range, even at his age. I picked him in my top 3 for the 10000, so the wrong race, but his placing ability obvious depends on how the race goes, with slow paces leading to fast finishes being key. In the 10000, we saw him blow a gasket with several really fast laps, which is consistent with his decline in ability to run sustained paces anywhere near his peak abilities.
I like Torrence a lot, and he could very well be right about Lagat. I don't feel that has to be inconsistent to like both runners. Torrence is in a different position than me, racing against the guy. Like others say, what he has on Lagat is rumors, probably a lot of if from letsrun. Some of what he is saying seems to be demonstrably wrong if the lagatfull.doc paper is correct. I don't think I've heard the rumor about a 2008 cover up, so that could be something that rojo investigates.
What he has on Lagat is NOT rumors. There is so much more to this story and I'm glad he started this conversation. I would love to tell more people about what I have been told about Lagat. But please tell me how???????????????? I have been on the circuit for a number of years now and I have personally reported what I have seen with my own eyes and in emails with other athletes. After I did this, NOTHING happened. Did I say Nothing happened. I'll say it again NOTHING happened. thats right they don't want to catch people like Lagat. Yes it's BS, but Lagat is fake and it makes me and many others he races very pissed off.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
dir4 wrote:you don't know the difference between correlation and causation.
Each of your 4 points is easily explained and countered. Show us some actual proof or at least make a decent point. You have failed to do both.
We've got a live one here.
You know, both Lance and Marion Jones both never tested positive, right?
There's this thing called Occam's Razor you should look up.
It's doping, broski.
LOLser ... I should neva post when Im hi and dlunk to the gills. I needs mor of mys drugz.
You are troll under your handle. You have been called an ahole under your handle. You are not new here, so it must be true about your aholeyness.
Insults really don't make an argument any more convincing. Anyway, the length of time Jack had the record is important because? We agree he was an outlier. His 5,000 best was around 13:50 and there was no way he could have closed anything in 52 for the last 400. Again, tell me about someone that age who has done that.
People have compared Lagat to Armstrong. I pointed out that their careers haven't played out the same. Lagat is consistently a top competitor in just about any race he's been in, slowing a bit as he's aged. Armstrong would dominate the tour and then just be a decent rider in other events. You bring Viren into it, and that is irrelevant because 1. He's not Lagat and 2. He was never busted for doping. If you're trying to say that Viren was a doper (which I have no clue of), then you just pretty much made my point.
Wanting to believe someone is clean doesn't mean I won't accept actual evidence.
In any case, you're the one who seemingly is too dense to understand my point, so instead of name calling, maybe look in the mirror, realize your failings as a human being, and go give your mother an at-home hysterectomy to ensure she can't breed another pretentious twat of a human being. Punch her in the pu ssy a couple times for me, too. You should probably castrate your father, too, because we don't want him having a dumb little f'er like you with another woman out of wedlock. Give your dad a fist up his butthole for me while you're at it. He deserves such an injustice for giving birth to such a loser. Last, but not least, to ensure you don't breed a little heathen yourself, take a bunch of Cialis until your penis bloats with too much blood and then slam it in a cabinet drawer so it explodes. Thank you.
24595 wrote:
zzzz wrote:That's what I remember also from back then too. The A sample was misread and never contained EPO. Rojo, if you are still wanting to reinvestigate that 2003 test, start with the document stored on your site:
http://www.letsrun.com/2003/lagatfull.docMaybe some of the 5 "experts" were trying to cover up a positive, so that would be a possible angle for re-examination - people are mentioning Dr. Saugy. If the raw data from the tests are still available, maybe it can be reinterpreted if necessary by other, trusted experts. For now, I am assuming that that document has the correct final story on that test.
Like the other Lagat defenders, I don't see his 5000 performance as out of his range, even at his age. I picked him in my top 3 for the 10000, so the wrong race, but his placing ability obvious depends on how the race goes, with slow paces leading to fast finishes being key. In the 10000, we saw him blow a gasket with several really fast laps, which is consistent with his decline in ability to run sustained paces anywhere near his peak abilities.
I like Torrence a lot, and he could very well be right about Lagat. I don't feel that has to be inconsistent to like both runners. Torrence is in a different position than me, racing against the guy. Like others say, what he has on Lagat is rumors, probably a lot of if from letsrun. Some of what he is saying seems to be demonstrably wrong if the lagatfull.doc paper is correct. I don't think I've heard the rumor about a 2008 cover up, so that could be something that rojo investigates.
What he has on Lagat is NOT rumors. There is so much more to this story and I'm glad he started this conversation. I would love to tell more people about what I have been told about Lagat. But please tell me how???????????????? I have been on the circuit for a number of years now and I have personally reported what I have seen with my own eyes and in emails with other athletes. After I did this, NOTHING happened. Did I say Nothing happened. I'll say it again NOTHING happened. thats right they don't want to catch people like Lagat. Yes it's BS, but Lagat is fake and it makes me and many others he races very pissed off.
+1
I know you know it wrote:
+1
Bump your own posts much, Torrence?
erererefdafdsf wrote:
People have compared Lagat to Armstrong. I pointed out that their careers haven't played out the same. Lagat is consistently a top competitor in just about any race he's been in, slowing a bit as he's aged. Armstrong would dominate the tour and then just be a decent rider in other events. You bring Viren into it, and that is irrelevant because 1. He's not Lagat and 2. He was never busted for doping. If you're trying to say that Viren was a doper (which I have no clue of), then you just pretty much made my point.
Wanting to believe someone is clean doesn't mean I won't accept actual evidence.
In any case, you're the one who seemingly is too dense to understand my point, so instead of name calling, maybe look in the mirror, realize your failings as a human being, and go give your mother an at-home hysterectomy to ensure she can't breed another pretentious twat of a human being. Punch her in the pu ssy a couple times for me, too. You should probably castrate your father, too, because we don't want him having a dumb little f'er like you with another woman out of wedlock. Give your dad a fist up his butthole for me while you're at it. He deserves such an injustice for giving birth to such a loser. Last, but not least, to ensure you don't breed a little heathen yourself, take a bunch of Cialis until your penis bloats with too much blood and then slam it in a cabinet drawer so it explodes. Thank you.
Lance won a race that spans 2100 or so miles for SEVEN years in a row. That's by far the most impressive endurance achievement in history. I mentioned Viren because of his greatness in the Olympics when it counts. Let's face it - there's the TdF and a bunch of races that no one gets a sh!t about. Let's also face it, you're kind of dull.
So you want someone you disagree with to suffer physical violence? That shows your investment in believing Lagat's clean and your need to attack people who point out how obvious he's dirty. I hope you get anger management therapy. You'll feel better when you stop believing in fairy tales.
No, I don't want people to suffer: Just you. You know what...I'm just going to say it. Everyone on this board hates you, dude. Your posts may be all well thought out and amazing, but we know you plagiarize the s hit out of everything you do. It's all fake. So many time consuming, well thought out arguments have been shot down by you, and we all know it's because they are not your original thoughts. We know about the failed English test from sophomore year of high school, man. We know the teacher said you copied it but couldn't prove it so had to change the F to an A, even though she knows, and we all know, that you didn't deserve it! You're a cheat, and we are sick of you taking good posts away from the rest of us original, independent thinkers!
Look...you're a nice guy. But that doesn't make it OK. You have a great smile. That doesn't make it acceptable to plagiarize man. It's just not f'ing right!
Retard alert!
IIort_vbo unregistered wrote:
You are troll under your handle. You have been called an ahole under your handle. You are not new here, so it must be true about your aholeyness.
Ok Policy Guy. I'm sorry Lagat broke your heart. Don't be mad at me though.
24595 wrote:
What he has on Lagat is NOT rumors. There is so much more to this story and I'm glad he started this conversation. I would love to tell more people about what I have been told about Lagat. But please tell me how???????????????? I have been on the circuit for a number of years now and I have personally reported what I have seen with my own eyes and in emails with other athletes. After I did this, NOTHING happened. Did I say Nothing happened. I'll say it again NOTHING happened. thats right they don't want to catch people like Lagat. Yes it's BS, but Lagat is fake and it makes me and many others he races very pissed off.
Well the things that you have been told things about Lagat would be defined as a rumor. Same thing with emails with other athletes. Maybe a correct rumor, but a rumor nevertheless at this stage for those of us, like me who are not insiders. Now what you have personally seen with your own eyes? That IS something, depending on what you saw. Why don't you spill the beans to a reporter if authorities don't do anything? Send an email to rojo, or whoever is breaking other drug stories. Or spill it here. Spilling the beans here turns your first hand knowledge into a rumor for the rest of us, but maybe it could be corroborated by others.
LEAVE BERNIE ALONE!!!!!
Yeah, Curious Bob is right...leave my man Bernie alone! Represent the U-SA, fo real, B.L. 2016. God. Ya heard.
It's Gold fo real, not God, yo. Feel the motha effin' Bern, but proof-read that shizit, homie!
What talent on drugs looks like: