I've always agreed with this. If it's a partcular day and I want to stress the aerobic threshold, then I do just that in general. The specifics of how I do so is irrelevent. Whether I run 10 miles at 5:48 pace or run fartlek at efforts at approx. MP, doesn't really matter. I also believe you shouldn't plan hard days (if you're not on a team anymore) because your body does not care if it's Tuesday, if it needs another easy day it needs another easy day.
Renato Canova post.
Renato Canova wrote:
During the FUNDAMENTAL (or GENERAL) PERIOD, our goal is to improve all our qualities (general resistance, strength, rapidity, flexibility, elasticity, ecc.). During this period, is very important THE INTERNAL LOAD. So, if for ex. I have in my program to run 10 x 1000m in 3 min rec. 1'30", but because of the cold or some personal problem due to my job o my family, I'm not able running under 3'08" (not because I'm lazy, but because I'm not able in spite of my commitment), I have to continue training with the same level of effort, AS THE PHYSIOLOGICAL RESULT IS THE SAME, because the Interanal Load is the same. You have to remember that TRAINING IS THE ANSWER TO A PROPOSAL, NOT THE PROPOSAL. So, if 3 athletes do the same work, we can be sure that really are 3 different level of training, because THE INTERNAL LOADS ARE DIFFERENT. Internal Load is subjective, depending on many factors.
During the SPECIFIC PERIOD, our goal is to use our consolidated qualities for preparing our performance. In this case, is essential the EXTERNAL LOAD. In other words, if I want running 10000m in 30' and I need running 10 x 1000m in 2'57" with 1'30" of interval, when I'm able running in 3'05" because I'm tired or I have some problem, I have to stop training, postponing the session to another day, BECAUSE THE SPECIFIC WORKOUT IS MATHEMATIC : 10 times 3 min are 30 min, and if you are not able running 3 times 3 min, you are not ready for running in 30'. External Load is objective, being the same for everyone.
I think I see what Canova is saying in your post but I imagine that it could be a bad idea to force yourself to hit times in those sorts of workouts by increasing rests. You will be going away from a race-specific stimulus. If you are not in shape to hit the times, then maybe you need to adjust your goals until you are genuinely in shape to run the 3mins/km or whatever pace.
I would say that Lydiard made a good point when he said that he was not too bothered about specific times in interval workouts. You run hard according to the shape you are in and progression should follow naturally.
Omnipotence wrote:
And that is your opinion based on your own RUNNING AND RACING EXPERIENCE. I based my opinion on my own running and COACHING EXPERIENCE. BTW, have you ever coach anybody malmo?
Yes I have coached thousands of runners, and not one of them by default (employment). Every single one of them has come to me for advice.
Renato Canova wrote:
I also agree with Malmo, but I think his idea of Specific is not as mine.
His example (which is the difference between 4x1600 or 6x1200 or 8x1000 or 20x400) is not something regarding "Specific", but regarding "Particulars inside the specific".
Yes, Renato, we understand each other perfectly.
Renato Canova wrote:
This is the point : how we can define SPECIFIC endurance ?
For a marathon runner able to run at 3'per km (2:06:36), every long run inside 3' and 3'20" has a SPECIFIC impact. The long run inside 3'20" and 3'40" has a SPECIAL impact (it means is the support for the SPECIFIC). Every other speed is in the field of REGENERATION : under the organic point of view, it's useless, also if we continue to use for other reasons (adaptation of the body structure to the distance, adaptation of the mind).
SPECIFIC is everything inside 90 and 100% of the race pace.
SPECIAL is everything inside 75 and 90% of the race pace.
RIGENERATION every speed slower than 75%.
Let's apply this to a common letsrun reader.
18 years old, entering first year of university. Slow twitcher, high aerobic, enduring type, training for 8k cross country race.
PR's from highschool:
400 - 57
1600 - 4:30
3200 - 9:45
8000 road race - 26:30
Mileage: btwn 60 and 90 last year, mostly at 7min pace +- 20 seconds. 1-2 moderate workouts a week.
How should he ideally train the summer before his first university cross country season? How should he train in season?
For comparison, assuming a 2:45 marathon, then using the marathon guidelines for paces:
Specific: 6:17/mile to 6:57/mile
Special: 6:57/mile to 8:00/mile
Using his 8k PR:
Specific: 5:20/mile to 5:55/mile
Special: 5:55/mile to 7:06
What should he do? This assuming you are his coach. The question is for everyone, although especially renato, col. khaddafi, hodgie, nobby...
Thanks very much!
caligula wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:This is the point : how we can define SPECIFIC endurance ?
For a marathon runner able to run at 3'per km (2:06:36), every long run inside 3' and 3'20" has a SPECIFIC impact. The long run inside 3'20" and 3'40" has a SPECIAL impact (it means is the support for the SPECIFIC). Every other speed is in the field of REGENERATION : under the organic point of view, it's useless, also if we continue to use for other reasons (adaptation of the body structure to the distance, adaptation of the mind).
SPECIFIC is everything inside 90 and 100% of the race pace.
SPECIAL is everything inside 75 and 90% of the race pace.
RIGENERATION every speed slower than 75%.
Let's apply this to a common letsrun reader.
18 years old, entering first year of university. Slow twitcher, high aerobic, enduring type, training for 8k cross country race.
PR's from highschool:
400 - 57
1600 - 4:30
3200 - 9:45
8000 road race - 26:30
Mileage: btwn 60 and 90 last year, mostly at 7min pace +- 20 seconds. 1-2 moderate workouts a week.
How should he ideally train the summer before his first university cross country season? How should he train in season?
For comparison, assuming a 2:45 marathon, then using the marathon guidelines for paces:
Specific: 6:17/mile to 6:57/mile
Special: 6:57/mile to 8:00/mile
Using his 8k PR:
Specific: 5:20/mile to 5:55/mile
Special: 5:55/mile to 7:06
What should he do? This assuming you are his coach. The question is for everyone, although especially renato, col. khaddafi, hodgie, nobby...
Thanks very much!
I continue to feel incredibly stupid trying to understand Renato's posts. What does any of that above mean?
malmo wrote:
young one wrote:Link here:
http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/Arthur_Lydiard.htmHoly crap! (1) can people actually complete this level of work? (2) can anyone who has followed Lydiard in practice give us some insight as to what kind of modifications were made, because this "schedule" seems unreal, (3) how the heck did anyone ever get the idea that Lydiard training is just long slow running? That seems to be the opposite of the truth. Letsrun seems to think that Daniels is rep work and Lydiard is distance work. But man there is a lot of sprinting, time trials, hill work, etc. in this Lydiard program.
Here's a more suitable adviser for your special needs.
http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Running-On-And-On-With-Oprah
+1
Brilliant thread
malmo wrote:
young one wrote:
Link here:
http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/Arthur_Lydiard.htmHoly crap! (1) can people actually complete this level of work? (2) can anyone who has followed Lydiard in practice give us some insight as to what kind of modifications were made, because this "schedule" seems unreal, (3) how the heck did anyone ever get the idea that Lydiard training is just long slow running? That seems to be the opposite of the truth. Letsrun seems to think that Daniels is rep work and Lydiard is distance work. But man there is a lot of sprinting, time trials, hill work, etc. in this Lydiard program.
Here's a more suitable adviser for your special needs.
http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Running-On-And-On-With-Oprah
You always crack me up malmo