Anyone apart from our letsdumber number one would add to the claim that Ingebrigtsen is not the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k who - in his or her opinion - has done better. Anyone apart from Dumbstrong.
You put it as a fact, that the best distance runner in history has to be the best in a single event. This is NOT A FACT, Dumb. It is your point of view. For me it's nonsense, but you can see it this way.
What if someone runs 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05. Bolt for you still would be the clear no. 1 sprinter? For me not. I would say this runner is almost as good as Bolt in the 100/200 but has the same level in the 400m and for me this would count a lot. There never can be a clear measure Dumb.
Rudisha has done better than Coe in the 800m. I would rank Coe ahead of Rudisha in distance running because of his great results up to the Mile.
You have Rudisha clearly ahead - that's OK. But not a fact.
The bottom line for the best distance runner in history is that they have to be better than any others who might have a claim to that description. The others who have a claim to being the GOAT were the best in their era, as shown by Olympic and world championship gold medals and world records in championship events. So to be in contention for GOAT status a runner would have to, at the very least, be able to equal that. That means in their specialist events they would have to be the best in their era - because athletes like Bekele, Geb and El G were. To be the acknowledged GOAT an athlete would then have to surpass those achievements - which means even more medals and more - or much better - world records. That means greater accomplishments than Bekele and Geb for a distance runner. For a 1500-5k specialist, which is what Jakob is, he has to surpass El G's achievements. (I have also said he won't match Elliott's achievements, who raced the same specialty event as Jakob and unlike Jakob he held the world records and was unbeaten). It won't happen. Nor will Jakob get near Bekele's and Geb's feats. The 5k-10k and longer were their best distances; they aren't for Jakob. None of your throwing selective statistics around is going to put him in contention.
The only thing he can do again and again: changing the subject.
He never is discussing anything - it would include answering questions. He never does if the answer would question his point of view (which almost always is the case).
As far as I know, now one ever has said that Ingebrigtsen is the GOAT. At the moment he is far from becoming it in the future. But with his unmatched achievements at age 22 from 1500m to 5k, he has a shot. Anybody who follows athletics (anybody apart from Dumbstrong) knows he tends to the longer events and has shown already his potential over 10000m. Will he be successful? No idea, but for me he has a small chance.
Elliott as a contender for best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k : Dumbstrong.
But Dumby seems to be very proud to understand that to be the best at something you have to be better than all the others. We are all proud of you Dumb!
That you destinct between 1500m/5k and 5k/10k shows that you havn't even understood the term GOAT distance runner. For sure he has to surpass Bekele, Gebrselassie, El Guerrouj, Rudisha, Coe, Keino, Aouita, Morceli, Kipchoge, Zatopek and all the others.
Loong way to go - but he definitely has a chance (much greater chance than any other current runner).
Anyone apart from our letsdumber number one would add to the claim that Ingebrigtsen is not the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k who - in his or her opinion - has done better. Anyone apart from Dumbstrong.
You put it as a fact, that the best distance runner in history has to be the best in a single event. This is NOT A FACT, Dumb. It is your point of view. For me it's nonsense, but you can see it this way.
What if someone runs 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05. Bolt for you still would be the clear no. 1 sprinter? For me not. I would say this runner is almost as good as Bolt in the 100/200 but has the same level in the 400m and for me this would count a lot. There never can be a clear measure Dumb.
Rudisha has done better than Coe in the 800m. I would rank Coe ahead of Rudisha in distance running because of his great results up to the Mile.
You have Rudisha clearly ahead - that's OK. But not a fact.
Your argument has a partiality, which is that the best runners have to be good at several events. They don't. The best runners were and are the best at their events - their specialties. They were/are better than the all-rounder who didn't run as fast, didn't beat them in the big races, or didn't dominate the event as the specialist does. No amount of versatility enables a runner to be faster than the best specialist unless they are for a fact faster - or historically better by having more championship titles and more world records.
The example you give of the sprinter you think is better than Bolt doesn't work because he can't match Bolt's best achievements, which are Bolt's world records and championship titles.
If I take your argument to its logical extreme, the best runner in history is the runner who has the best combination of times from the 100m to the marathon. That is an absurdity but it follows from what you are arguing. In reality, the best runners in history rarely dominated more than two events, because running is, at the very top (which is where the GOAT resides), a sport for the specialist.
Even when explained ten times to this dumber, he would change it again in his next post.
THERE CAN'T BE A CLEAR MEASURE to such questions.
What is better for you, Dumb:
9.58+19.19+45.28 or 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05?
1:40.91 or 1:41.73 + 3:29.77?
For me in both cases the 2nd one. You can differ, Dumb. But it can't be a fact as which you want to see it. But there is a reason that you are the letsdumber number 1.
Jakob himself talks about how hard he experiences a relatively fast 5000m to be on his psyche and body -he really wants to minimise the number of races here. And even in the two events (Florence 2021 and WC U20 2018) where he ran extremely impressive the two last laps he had to give quite a few meters midway…
These are things that get easier as you get older, stronger and more experience in these events. I don't think 10k would be an issue--though i think the mental aspect of it would keep him from a world record. I think he can win races into the 26:40s for sure.
To me, Mo Farah had a similar mindset for races. People will say he didn't have opportunities for fast races, but that is self created. He did not like to run REALLY fast. And I think he is also one to protect his record and aura of invincibility, which could also play into Jakob's race selection.
I also think Jakob's 7:54 shows he is in a different place to be able to real off 61-62 second laps, comfortably, in a 5k now, versus where he was in his late teens and earlier 20s.
Your argument has a partiality, which is that the best runners have to be good at several events. They don't. The best runners were and are the best at their events - their specialties. They were/are better than the all-rounder who didn't run as fast, didn't beat them in the big races, or didn't dominate the event as the specialist does. No amount of versatility enables a runner to be faster than the best specialist unless they are for a fact faster - or historically better by having more championship titles and more world records.
The example you give of the sprinter you think is better than Bolt doesn't work because he can't match Bolt's best achievements, which are Bolt's world records and championship titles.
If I take your argument to its logical extreme, the best runner in history is the runner who has the best combination of times from the 100m to the marathon. That is an absurdity but it follows from what you are arguing. In reality, the best runners in history rarely dominated more than two events, because running is, at the very top (which is where the GOAT resides), a sport for the specialist.
Even when explained ten times to this dumber, he would change it again in his next post.
THERE CAN'T BE A CLEAR MEASURE to such questions.
What is better for you, Dumb:
9.58+19.19+45.28 or 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05?
1:40.91 or 1:41.73 + 3:29.77?
For me in both cases the 2nd one. You can differ, Dumb. But it can't be a fact as which you want to see it. But there is a reason that you are the letsdumber number 1.
You can't follow what I have argued so I have no interest in discussing this further with you. You're just a bag of wind.
I agree in everything you are saying in this post, except how you estimate Jakob’s half marathon capacity…
Just for the records: Me being a fan of the Ingebrigtsens / the Norwegian means only that I’m a fan of their training / racing project, and some of their views on training and racing. I (like you I suppose) want to see how their philosophy manifests it self in times and achievements throughout the years -I really think they have found something revolutionary, and I think it’s the training more than talent. And as a Norwegian it’s especially interesting to watch how a awkwardly small country all of a sudden has two candidates to the price “athlete of the year” (Warholm / Ingebrigtsen) year after year…
I like outliers and special features in athletics, and therefore both Ingebrigtsen and Nordås. But I also really liked what Hassan has been doing -how she fell from a medal, and just smiled. And took the blame her self (didn’t run straight). And how Gidey supported her afterwards. And that Tsegay stood (ran) on her rights. And how Cheptegei and Gidey and even Bekele (once) dared to hit the wall in xc. And that Kipyegon said she was a little embarrassed that Gidey had to do all the work in the former’s 5000m WR race. And that Tsegay eventually got her WR (5000m) after years of tough openings in the 1500m.. And so on and so on.. And I would love to have McSweyn winning a championship with the fastest home stretch, just to show it’s all about the strength!
I agree in your estimate of Jakob sub 12.40 -there’s so many races and indications for this. And I think such an estimate aligns with parameters from testing and training and lactate readings. But to extend this to predict 10000m and half marathon times seems too much of a stretch. Because there are some strong indications that Jakob may be a really (of course relatively) poor both 10000m and half marathon runner:
1. Jakob has never raced any really good distance runners over 6, 8 or 10k (xc, road or track) or above!
2. In 2019 Jakob probably could have run 12.55 or faster (did 13.02 twice). But in his two longer runs he flopped grossly: 27.54 road 10 k, and 8 km WC U20: placed 12th against totally unmerited runners (47 sec behind guys with 13.30 and 28-+ pr’s that season, or f.ex 61+ half marathon). He was totally destroyed by guys 2 min away from the WR in the 10000m; athletes who weren’t good enough for the senior ranks…!
3. I think Jakob has a vision about how training and racing and progression should be when it comes to himself. And when this vision seems to collide with reality he seems to think he can fix the whole thing with small adjustments (f.ex admitting that a marathon WR is something he isn’t sure of; only that he is going to try to break it… But no admission about the rest of the events)…
Maybe an athlete theoretically can have the WR in both the 1500m and the (half) marathon. But maybe this is more determined by genes than by training than Jakob thinks..?
4. Jakob reminds me of Cheptegei -a playfulness and (maybe) an overestimation of own abilities: The latter runs nearly 2 min behind the WR in the half, and in the full marathon he hits the wall, and can’t even walk afterwards without assistance (Pretty much like Jakob after some of his races!).
5. You mentioned his 8k childhood race -good of course, but no reason to think he was better here than in the 5k’s at the same time (that he ran fast in courses of 200m + elevation)… Jakob has surprised me a lot of times. And I hope he does this again in the longer runs. In some surroundings he can be extremely strong - you mentioned the Nationals in 2017 (Jakob 16). In the 5000m he toyed with 13.20 runner Moen. And this despite he the day before pr’ed in the 800m (somewhere in central Europe -nearly won the race)…
I don’t know if the ability to recover super fast says something about 10k / half marathon capacity. And even Jakob is human -in the 2023 Bowerman 3000m he clearly wasn’t fully recovered… But I really hope he dusts all my predictions opposed to yours here. -Personally I think there’s a stronger possibility for Jakob to really crush some WR’s 1500-5000m, than to even run decent in the 10k and +…
I haven´t been on this thread for a while but I think you here have many interesting points which I would like to respond to.
First: I admit that my HM estimate was way off. I have in the meantime researched further (with focus on Jakob´s various "treshold" reps and I now estimate that his HM potential at the moment is a bit over 22KM/ hour; I will write about this in another post; you will probably still not agree).
Ad your point 2:
Hytteplanmilen 2019: Jakob didn´t go "all in" in that race. As you possibly remember they came so late to the start so Jakob hadn´t had time to remove his jacket and Filip started 10 seconds or more after the elite group. Looked like they just wanted to have some fun.
If Jakob had been running after the record from the start he would gapped at least Swedish Nilsson almost immediately (Nilsson is a fine runner in the Nordic countries but he is far from Jakob´s level; 13:49 PB and over 29 in 2019 (he has later run just under 29)). I think Jakob ran fast the last kilometers. I think I heard - when about 2km left - that he was 15 seconds behind the NR which he ended with breaking with 2 sec. so he gained 17 seconds even though the finish is uphill.
ALSO: You wrote in another post that the course is fast? I don´t think it is Valencia, Monaco or Berlin fast. The course has some hills and you never gain downhill what you loose uphill (have you been running yourself nysgerrige gut? As you possible know: I have.
Jakob ran poorly in Aarhus because the course was EXTREMELY HILLY. He will never be able to beat the East African lightweighters on a course like that. If they had competed the same distance on the track he would possibly have beaten everyone in that field.
Ad 3::
We just disagree. I am quite certain that Jakob´s statements are based on his training results, especially his "treshold" reps. More about that in another post.
Ad 4.:
I would never compare Jakob to Cheptegei. Jakob is almost always delivering, even when he is not at his best as in Doha 2019 (they didn´t manage to peak again in the end of September) or in Budapest where he was sick. Cheptegei is much more up and down.
Ad 5.:
I trust that Jakob will be even faster on the 10,000m and HM because Jakob says so based on thaining times AND
because that is how it goes when you train right aerobically since you are 8 years old: You end up being an aerobic monster AND
consequently you will be better the longer you run since the aerobic element becomes a bigger percentage of the performance the longer you run AND
I agree in everything you are saying in this post, except how you estimate Jakob’s half marathon capacity…
Just for the records: Me being a fan of the Ingebrigtsens / the Norwegian means only that I’m a fan of their training / racing project, and some of their views on training and racing. I (like you I suppose) want to see how their philosophy manifests it self in times and achievements throughout the years -I really think they have found something revolutionary, and I think it’s the training more than talent. And as a Norwegian it’s especially interesting to watch how a awkwardly small country all of a sudden has two candidates to the price “athlete of the year” (Warholm / Ingebrigtsen) year after year…
I like outliers and special features in athletics, and therefore both Ingebrigtsen and Nordås. But I also really liked what Hassan has been doing -how she fell from a medal, and just smiled. And took the blame her self (didn’t run straight). And how Gidey supported her afterwards. And that Tsegay stood (ran) on her rights. And how Cheptegei and Gidey and even Bekele (once) dared to hit the wall in xc. And that Kipyegon said she was a little embarrassed that Gidey had to do all the work in the former’s 5000m WR race. And that Tsegay eventually got her WR (5000m) after years of tough openings in the 1500m.. And so on and so on.. And I would love to have McSweyn winning a championship with the fastest home stretch, just to show it’s all about the strength!
I agree in your estimate of Jakob sub 12.40 -there’s so many races and indications for this. And I think such an estimate aligns with parameters from testing and training and lactate readings. But to extend this to predict 10000m and half marathon times seems too much of a stretch. Because there are some strong indications that Jakob may be a really (of course relatively) poor both 10000m and half marathon runner:
1. Jakob has never raced any really good distance runners over 6, 8 or 10k (xc, road or track) or above!
2. In 2019 Jakob probably could have run 12.55 or faster (did 13.02 twice). But in his two longer runs he flopped grossly: 27.54 road 10 k, and 8 km WC U20: placed 12th against totally unmerited runners (47 sec behind guys with 13.30 and 28-+ pr’s that season, or f.ex 61+ half marathon). He was totally destroyed by guys 2 min away from the WR in the 10000m; athletes who weren’t good enough for the senior ranks…!
3. I think Jakob has a vision about how training and racing and progression should be when it comes to himself. And when this vision seems to collide with reality he seems to think he can fix the whole thing with small adjustments (f.ex admitting that a marathon WR is something he isn’t sure of; only that he is going to try to break it… But no admission about the rest of the events)…
Maybe an athlete theoretically can have the WR in both the 1500m and the (half) marathon. But maybe this is more determined by genes than by training than Jakob thinks..?
4. Jakob reminds me of Cheptegei -a playfulness and (maybe) an overestimation of own abilities: The latter runs nearly 2 min behind the WR in the half, and in the full marathon he hits the wall, and can’t even walk afterwards without assistance (Pretty much like Jakob after some of his races!).
5. You mentioned his 8k childhood race -good of course, but no reason to think he was better here than in the 5k’s at the same time (that he ran fast in courses of 200m + elevation)… Jakob has surprised me a lot of times. And I hope he does this again in the longer runs. In some surroundings he can be extremely strong - you mentioned the Nationals in 2017 (Jakob 16). In the 5000m he toyed with 13.20 runner Moen. And this despite he the day before pr’ed in the 800m (somewhere in central Europe -nearly won the race)…
I don’t know if the ability to recover super fast says something about 10k / half marathon capacity. And even Jakob is human -in the 2023 Bowerman 3000m he clearly wasn’t fully recovered… But I really hope he dusts all my predictions opposed to yours here. -Personally I think there’s a stronger possibility for Jakob to really crush some WR’s 1500-5000m, than to even run decent in the 10k and +…
I haven´t been on this thread for a while but I think you here have many interesting points which I would like to respond to.
First: I admit that my HM estimate was way off. I have in the meantime researched further (with focus on Jakob´s various "treshold" reps and I now estimate that his HM potential at the moment is a bit over 22KM/ hour; I will write about this in another post; you will probably still not agree).
Ad your point 2:
Hytteplanmilen 2019: Jakob didn´t go "all in" in that race. As you possibly remember they came so late to the start so Jakob hadn´t had time to remove his jacket and Filip started 10 seconds or more after the elite group. Looked like they just wanted to have some fun.
If Jakob had been running after the record from the start he would gapped at least Swedish Nilsson almost immediately (Nilsson is a fine runner in the Nordic countries but he is far from Jakob´s level; 13:49 PB and over 29 in 2019 (he has later run just under 29)). I think Jakob ran fast the last kilometers. I think I heard - when about 2km left - that he was 15 seconds behind the NR which he ended with breaking with 2 sec. so he gained 17 seconds even though the finish is uphill.
ALSO: You wrote in another post that the course is fast? I don´t think it is Valencia, Monaco or Berlin fast. The course has some hills and you never gain downhill what you loose uphill (have you been running yourself nysgerrige gut? As you possible know: I have.
Jakob ran poorly in Aarhus because the course was EXTREMELY HILLY. He will never be able to beat the East African lightweighters on a course like that. If they had competed the same distance on the track he would possibly have beaten everyone in that field.
Ad 3::
We just disagree. I am quite certain that Jakob´s statements are based on his training results, especially his "treshold" reps. More about that in another post.
Ad 4.:
I would never compare Jakob to Cheptegei. Jakob is almost always delivering, even when he is not at his best as in Doha 2019 (they didn´t manage to peak again in the end of September) or in Budapest where he was sick. Cheptegei is much more up and down.
Ad 5.:
I trust that Jakob will be even faster on the 10,000m and HM because Jakob says so based on thaining times AND
because that is how it goes when you train right aerobically since you are 8 years old: You end up being an aerobic monster AND
consequently you will be better the longer you run since the aerobic element becomes a bigger percentage of the performance the longer you run AND
I agree in everything you are saying in this post, except how you estimate Jakob’s half marathon capacity…
Just for the records: Me being a fan of the Ingebrigtsens / the Norwegian means only that I’m a fan of their training / racing project, and some of their views on training and racing. I (like you I suppose) want to see how their philosophy manifests it self in times and achievements throughout the years -I really think they have found something revolutionary, and I think it’s the training more than talent. And as a Norwegian it’s especially interesting to watch how a awkwardly small country all of a sudden has two candidates to the price “athlete of the year” (Warholm / Ingebrigtsen) year after year…
I like outliers and special features in athletics, and therefore both Ingebrigtsen and Nordås. But I also really liked what Hassan has been doing -how she fell from a medal, and just smiled. And took the blame her self (didn’t run straight). And how Gidey supported her afterwards. And that Tsegay stood (ran) on her rights. And how Cheptegei and Gidey and even Bekele (once) dared to hit the wall in xc. And that Kipyegon said she was a little embarrassed that Gidey had to do all the work in the former’s 5000m WR race. And that Tsegay eventually got her WR (5000m) after years of tough openings in the 1500m.. And so on and so on.. And I would love to have McSweyn winning a championship with the fastest home stretch, just to show it’s all about the strength!
I agree in your estimate of Jakob sub 12.40 -there’s so many races and indications for this. And I think such an estimate aligns with parameters from testing and training and lactate readings. But to extend this to predict 10000m and half marathon times seems too much of a stretch. Because there are some strong indications that Jakob may be a really (of course relatively) poor both 10000m and half marathon runner:
1. Jakob has never raced any really good distance runners over 6, 8 or 10k (xc, road or track) or above!
2. In 2019 Jakob probably could have run 12.55 or faster (did 13.02 twice). But in his two longer runs he flopped grossly: 27.54 road 10 k, and 8 km WC U20: placed 12th against totally unmerited runners (47 sec behind guys with 13.30 and 28-+ pr’s that season, or f.ex 61+ half marathon). He was totally destroyed by guys 2 min away from the WR in the 10000m; athletes who weren’t good enough for the senior ranks…!
3. I think Jakob has a vision about how training and racing and progression should be when it comes to himself. And when this vision seems to collide with reality he seems to think he can fix the whole thing with small adjustments (f.ex admitting that a marathon WR is something he isn’t sure of; only that he is going to try to break it… But no admission about the rest of the events)…
Maybe an athlete theoretically can have the WR in both the 1500m and the (half) marathon. But maybe this is more determined by genes than by training than Jakob thinks..?
4. Jakob reminds me of Cheptegei -a playfulness and (maybe) an overestimation of own abilities: The latter runs nearly 2 min behind the WR in the half, and in the full marathon he hits the wall, and can’t even walk afterwards without assistance (Pretty much like Jakob after some of his races!).
5. You mentioned his 8k childhood race -good of course, but no reason to think he was better here than in the 5k’s at the same time (that he ran fast in courses of 200m + elevation)… Jakob has surprised me a lot of times. And I hope he does this again in the longer runs. In some surroundings he can be extremely strong - you mentioned the Nationals in 2017 (Jakob 16). In the 5000m he toyed with 13.20 runner Moen. And this despite he the day before pr’ed in the 800m (somewhere in central Europe -nearly won the race)…
I don’t know if the ability to recover super fast says something about 10k / half marathon capacity. And even Jakob is human -in the 2023 Bowerman 3000m he clearly wasn’t fully recovered… But I really hope he dusts all my predictions opposed to yours here. -Personally I think there’s a stronger possibility for Jakob to really crush some WR’s 1500-5000m, than to even run decent in the 10k and +…
I haven´t been on this thread for a while but I think you here have many interesting points which I would like to respond to.
First: I admit that my HM estimate was way off. I have in the meantime researched further (with focus on Jakob´s various "treshold" reps and I now estimate that his HM potential at the moment is a bit over 22KM/ hour; I will write about this in another post; you will probably still not agree).
Ad your point 2:
Hytteplanmilen 2019: Jakob didn´t go "all in" in that race. As you possibly remember they came so late to the start so Jakob hadn´t had time to remove his jacket and Filip started 10 seconds or more after the elite group. Looked like they just wanted to have some fun.
If Jakob had been running after the record from the start he would gapped at least Swedish Nilsson almost immediately (Nilsson is a fine runner in the Nordic countries but he is far from Jakob´s level; 13:49 PB and over 29 in 2019 (he has later run just under 29)). I think Jakob ran fast the last kilometers. I think I heard - when about 2km left - that he was 15 seconds behind the NR which he ended with breaking with 2 sec. so he gained 17 seconds even though the finish is uphill.
ALSO: You wrote in another post that the course is fast? I don´t think it is Valencia, Monaco or Berlin fast. The course has some hills and you never gain downhill what you loose uphill (have you been running yourself nysgerrige gut? As you possible know: I have.
Jakob ran poorly in Aarhus because the course was EXTREMELY HILLY. He will never be able to beat the East African lightweighters on a course like that. If they had competed the same distance on the track he would possibly have beaten everyone in that field.
Ad 3::
We just disagree. I am quite certain that Jakob´s statements are based on his training results, especially his "treshold" reps. More about that in another post.
Ad 4.:
I would never compare Jakob to Cheptegei. Jakob is almost always delivering, even when he is not at his best as in Doha 2019 (they didn´t manage to peak again in the end of September) or in Budapest where he was sick. Cheptegei is much more up and down.
Ad 5.:
I trust that Jakob will be even faster on the 10,000m and HM because Jakob says so based on thaining times AND
because that is how it goes when you train right aerobically since you are 8 years old: You end up being an aerobic monster AND
consequently you will be better the longer you run since the aerobic element becomes a bigger percentage of the performance the longer you run AND
Jakob himself talks about how hard he experiences a relatively fast 5000m to be on his psyche and body -he really wants to minimise the number of races here. And even in the two events (Florence 2021 and WC U20 2018) where he ran extremely impressive the two last laps he had to give quite a few meters midway…
These are things that get easier as you get older, stronger and more experience in these events. I don't think 10k would be an issue--though i think the mental aspect of it would keep him from a world record. I think he can win races into the 26:40s for sure.
To me, Mo Farah had a similar mindset for races. People will say he didn't have opportunities for fast races, but that is self created. He did not like to run REALLY fast. And I think he is also one to protect his record and aura of invincibility, which could also play into Jakob's race selection.
I also think Jakob's 7:54 shows he is in a different place to be able to real off 61-62 second laps, comfortably, in a 5k now, versus where he was in his late teens and earlier 20s.
I don´t know why you are thinking that Jakob has a similar mindset as Mo Farah when it comes to run fast races.
You are writing about a guy who last year at the age of 22 broke long standing WR/ WBs with a significant margin. And who could possibly have broken the mile WR too if the conditions had been better.
And who repeately runs fast in DL so other runners set PBs when they "join the party".
And who has stated that he wants to break all the WRs from 1500m and up.
Finally: I think he could have run 60-61 laps in the 5000m last years.
Even when explained ten times to this dumber, he would change it again in his next post.
THERE CAN'T BE A CLEAR MEASURE to such questions.
What is better for you, Dumb:
9.58+19.19+45.28 or 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05?
1:40.91 or 1:41.73 + 3:29.77?
For me in both cases the 2nd one. You can differ, Dumb. But it can't be a fact as which you want to see it. But there is a reason that you are the letsdumber number 1.
You can't follow what I have argued so I have no interest in discussing this further with you. You're just a bag of wind.
As usual, the coward retreats when his ignorance is exposed.
Even when explained ten times to this dumber, he would change it again in his next post.
THERE CAN'T BE A CLEAR MEASURE to such questions.
What is better for you, Dumb:
9.58+19.19+45.28 or 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05?
1:40.91 or 1:41.73 + 3:29.77?
For me in both cases the 2nd one. You can differ, Dumb. But it can't be a fact as which you want to see it. But there is a reason that you are the letsdumber number 1.
You can't follow what I have argued so I have no interest in discussing this further with you. You're just a bag of wind.
You haven't argued at all, you never have seriously discussed something.
You don't agree that Ingebrigtsen is the best so far at age 22 from 1500m to 5k - without giving a single name. Herb Elliott isn't a serious candidate.
You say to be GOAT distance runner it's a must to be totally dominant in one event (only remaining candidate: El Guerrouj). Arguments which challenge this claim strongly never get a comment form you.
Even when explained ten times to this dumber, he would change it again in his next post.
THERE CAN'T BE A CLEAR MEASURE to such questions.
What is better for you, Dumb:
9.58+19.19+45.28 or 9.62 + 19.23 + 43.05?
1:40.91 or 1:41.73 + 3:29.77?
For me in both cases the 2nd one. You can differ, Dumb. But it can't be a fact as which you want to see it. But there is a reason that you are the letsdumber number 1.
You can't follow what I have argued so I have no interest in discussing this further with you. You're just a bag of wind.
I think jakob will end up injured even more,and looking like a goat,with his comments,but i dont see him ever being the greatest of all time.
I haven´t been on this thread for a while but I think you here have many interesting points which I would like to respond to.
First: I admit that my HM estimate was way off. I have in the meantime researched further (with focus on Jakob´s various "treshold" reps and I now estimate that his HM potential at the moment is a bit over 22KM/ hour; I will write about this in another post; you will probably still not agree).
Ad your point 2:
Hytteplanmilen 2019: Jakob didn´t go "all in" in that race. As you possibly remember they came so late to the start so Jakob hadn´t had time to remove his jacket and Filip started 10 seconds or more after the elite group. Looked like they just wanted to have some fun.
If Jakob had been running after the record from the start he would gapped at least Swedish Nilsson almost immediately (Nilsson is a fine runner in the Nordic countries but he is far from Jakob´s level; 13:49 PB and over 29 in 2019 (he has later run just under 29)). I think Jakob ran fast the last kilometers. I think I heard - when about 2km left - that he was 15 seconds behind the NR which he ended with breaking with 2 sec. so he gained 17 seconds even though the finish is uphill.
ALSO: You wrote in another post that the course is fast? I don´t think it is Valencia, Monaco or Berlin fast. The course has some hills and you never gain downhill what you loose uphill (have you been running yourself nysgerrige gut? As you possible know: I have.
Jakob ran poorly in Aarhus because the course was EXTREMELY HILLY. He will never be able to beat the East African lightweighters on a course like that. If they had competed the same distance on the track he would possibly have beaten everyone in that field.
Ad 3::
We just disagree. I am quite certain that Jakob´s statements are based on his training results, especially his "treshold" reps. More about that in another post.
Ad 4.:
I would never compare Jakob to Cheptegei. Jakob is almost always delivering, even when he is not at his best as in Doha 2019 (they didn´t manage to peak again in the end of September) or in Budapest where he was sick. Cheptegei is much more up and down.
Ad 5.:
I trust that Jakob will be even faster on the 10,000m and HM because Jakob says so based on thaining times AND
because that is how it goes when you train right aerobically since you are 8 years old: You end up being an aerobic monster AND
consequently you will be better the longer you run since the aerobic element becomes a bigger percentage of the performance the longer you run AND
since Jakob isn´t a sprinter type.
A lot of good points here in your post. -I myself have tried to find breaches in my reasoning, and in the thread “What 10k time could Jakob do in peak form” I say a couple of things that seem quite alike your present arguments…
Hytteplanmila 10k road race: Yes there are a couple of hills there (especially “the home stretch”). There are faster courses in the world, but Hytteplan is nevertheless considered above average fast… That said I think you are right saying Jakob didn’t specifically go for any records that day. And he had to throw off his jacket after 50m -he and Filip misunderstood the start procedure (but he didn’t loose time here)… Well, Jakob ran fast the first couple of km’s (led by Filip) and fast in the last part of the race. The commentator was a little frustrated because of some missing / confused split times - I got the impression that they were running an even pace in the middle part, but my impression might be wrong (hope so, Jakob look better then)…
The extremely hilly course in Århus: Yes, this was a disadvantage for Jakob. He himself said in a post interview that the worst was the absence of parts where one could relax and find rhythm… Maybe I don’t give him enough in a conversion over to 10000m, but he would have been around 2 minutes behind Cheptegei / Kiplimo in the senior race. And him having this distance as his second best after half marathon when being beaten like that is a little strange. (He is after all the 2000m / 2 mile WR holder -hard to bettering that). But fair enough -there are special circumstances here that could give him some relief…
I think you are paying too much attention to what Jakob is saying about his own capacity -He is an interesting guy, but he seems to be a myth builder, meaning being more concerned about how reality should be than how it actually is. Example: Jakob’s main myth is that training is more important than talent (Here I agree with him). But his downplaying of talent here seems over done (thus my wording: myth), and may have led him into a conception of himself as a long distance runner. Because that’s what he wants to be!
Another Jakob myth: The importance of having a training form that gives you minimal injuries. He even made a big thing out of this when being interviewed by the “coffee club” guys -that he was better than almost everybody here (despite hiding that he has been chronically injured since 2019!). Again -what should be is more important than what is… And I could go on.
The above isn’t a critique of Jakob. -I think his greatest resource is his thinking, and that’s why he is so good. But without context I think one easily can be misled…
You ask: “Have you been running yourself?” Well, since we have discussed road running I can mention that the only time I raced the National record holder in the 1500m (he held it some 35 years until an Ingebrigtsen beat it) was on asphalt (a little under or over 1500m I think) -I did beat him and everybody else, but he was (of course) a 3-4 years over the top… I also have a medal in my drawer that says “National champion”, but it is far from as good as it sounds. Saying that I have to add that I have very little insight in training and athletics as a whole -just trying to understand what the exciting project Jakob is building is all about…
You can't follow what I have argued so I have no interest in discussing this further with you. You're just a bag of wind.
You haven't argued at all, you never have seriously discussed something.
You don't agree that Ingebrigtsen is the best so far at age 22 from 1500m to 5k - without giving a single name. Herb Elliott isn't a serious candidate.
You say to be GOAT distance runner it's a must to be totally dominant in one event (only remaining candidate: El Guerrouj). Arguments which challenge this claim strongly never get a comment form you.
Same story as in dozens of threads before.
You argue only with the voices in your own head. You can't follow mine. You simply waste thread space here.
Of course the elephant in the room that this thread doesn't address is that for anyone to become the distance running GOAT - and not just Jakob - it absolutely requires doping better than any runner has done previously.
You haven't argued at all, you never have seriously discussed something.
You don't agree that Ingebrigtsen is the best so far at age 22 from 1500m to 5k - without giving a single name. Herb Elliott isn't a serious candidate.
You say to be GOAT distance runner it's a must to be totally dominant in one event (only remaining candidate: El Guerrouj). Arguments which challenge this claim strongly never get a comment form you.
Same story as in dozens of threads before.
You argue only with the voices in your own head. You can't follow mine. You simply waste thread space here.
The achievements from Ingebrigtsen were discussed here extensively in this thread and for sure in the forum in enormous detail.
They clearly make him the best at age 22 from 1500m to 5k. You say for you he isn't the best. But you can't give a name of someone who has done better (also historically). You are definitely the letsdumber number one, no one can just come close to you.
Also your other point was clearly destroyed. If not, you surely woud have given an argument - you haven't. Because you can't. Because there isn't any.
b = Outdoor World Championship gold medals (800-marathon)
c = Outdoor world record (only counting 800, 1500, steeple, 5000, 10000, and marathon)
d = Number of years the outdoor world record remained world record
e = Did the athlete ever get stripped of medals or banned by WADA (h = 1 for NO, h = 0 for YES)
*note that this scoring system only works for athletes who competed after 1983 when outdoor world championships started
GOAT quotient =
(e)[(a)+(b/3)+(c)(d/12)]
Example scores:
Bekele - 7.33
Mo Farah - 6
Guerrouj - 5.33
Rudisha - 3.83
Kipchoge - 2.42
Jakob - 1.66
Centrowitz - 1
Athletes' scores can keep going up after they retire, so long as their world record(s) remain unbroken. So every passing year that Guerrouj's 1500m record stands, he will go up and up, surpassing Bekele in 24 years time. Your GOAT score can also drop to zero if you get busted for doping, even after you retire.
If you want to collect medals and records, it's best to specialize in the 5K/10K because those events are similar enough that they're a natural double. So if Jakob wants to be GOAT, he should switch to a 5K/10K specialist as soon as Paris olympics are over.
You haven't argued at all, you never have seriously discussed something.
You don't agree that Ingebrigtsen is the best so far at age 22 from 1500m to 5k - without giving a single name. Herb Elliott isn't a serious candidate.
You say to be GOAT distance runner it's a must to be totally dominant in one event (only remaining candidate: El Guerrouj). Arguments which challenge this claim strongly never get a comment form you.
Same story as in dozens of threads before.
You argue only with the voices in your own head. You can't follow mine. You simply waste thread space here.
Who wants to follow your voice? You are the voice of idiocy.
There should be a long distance GOAT and a middle distance GOAT. The long distance GOAT formula must include cross country and Roads. This disqualifies Ingebrigtsen.
At best he can compete for Middle distance GOAT where he will need to contend with El Guerrouj and Rudisha . He doesn't come close to either one. He is also behind Aouita, Kipketer, Coe and Lagat