Why does it feel like kilian is the most transparent runner about what he's going through by a mile? "Here's my data, here's how I'm feeling, here's my covid journey leading up to the race, I'm not sure I can do this but I'll try".
Is he just so confident that he feels like he can show behind the curtain and there's still nothing anyone can do to stop him? It feels like everyone else is doing some performative act of vulnerability, in comparison.
Kilian has nothing to hide. He just knows his body well and acts accordingly. The mistake runners like Walmsley make, is that they want to start a race within the race. The problem with that is, that every seasoned ultrarunner doesn't care. In an event this long you have to do your thing at any point. Following somebody else does not make any sense. Not sure if Jim will ever learn that.
We were all talking in Chamonix that the performance of the weekend was Petter Engdahl in the CCC with a GAP of 6:58/mi over 100km with over 19,000ft of climb. Insanely consistent and strong performance. Kilian was out of this world, but an 8:12/mi GAP pales in effort and shows that perhaps the UTMB record may end up being closer to 19:30 when Walmsley finally nails it (or a runner of his caliber).
I have honestly no idea about the depth of the field in US ultrarunning (I'm not a huge follower, but I like doing this stuff and got hyped for UTMB). I was kind of excited about Tollefson coming in, but he fell ill early and I couldn't think of other American male favorites to follow. And in the larger scene, I don't know enough to say anything intelligent. It might be worth looking at people who win the hillier hundreds (Hardrock) and even 50ks (Speedgoat, the Rut, Broken Arrow). Those people are more likely to have figured out the terrain than people running flat stuff. Especially because over the years, the people who gravitate to steep stuff end up accumulating so much more vertical training than most ultrarunners who do the runnable stuff. I don't know who those people are, but that might be a place to start looking. I think it's hard to train for a few months and get your vert legs ready, it's kind of a lifestyle that you have to love to have success imo.
Dylan Bowman comes to mind, after his phenomenal Hardrock performance last year. I'll bet that would translate. But I'm plumbing the depths of my knowledge there haha
based on HR this year I think Dakota Jones could do it
I was at HR this year and got video of Dakota, Kilian and Francois going over Handies Peak (highpoint at 14,000+ feet) - Dakota had a small gap at that point but they reeled him in. My take on Dakota is that while he's very talented and his talent is more mountain trail oriented (better for UTMB), 100M is not his best distance. Yes he's got a 2nd and two 3rd place finishes at HR, and maybe a couple decent placings at other lesser 100s. It may look promising on paper, but he really hasn't run any in a manner that would suggest he could do well at UTMB. Ergo, he's never been able to "race" after 100k - it's always just been hang on after that point. He's a very real force at 100k or less.
We were all talking in Chamonix that the performance of the weekend was Petter Engdahl in the CCC with a GAP of 6:58/mi over 100km with over 19,000ft of climb. Insanely consistent and strong performance. Kilian was out of this world, but an 8:12/mi GAP pales in effort and shows that perhaps the UTMB record may end up being closer to 19:30 when Walmsley finally nails it (or a runner of his caliber).
Amazing.
GAP isn't a reliable variable to compare both performances, it's innacurate as a measure of relative effort and it doesn't take into account the effect of the uphills and downhills on the muscles and joints, or the difficulty of keeping taking calories in while sustaining such long effort.
Of course the CR can go down quite a bit, considering the runner who set it was running on sore legs. But it will take another year of almost perfect conditions on race day, among other things.
We were all talking in Chamonix that the performance of the weekend was Petter Engdahl in the CCC with a GAP of 6:58/mi over 100km with over 19,000ft of climb. Insanely consistent and strong performance. Kilian was out of this world, but an 8:12/mi GAP pales in effort and shows that perhaps the UTMB record may end up being closer to 19:30 when Walmsley finally nails it (or a runner of his caliber).
Amazing.
I think this was a perfect year weatherwise. This will not happen anytime soon again. If the weather is bad, Jim is out at mile 50 latest.
We were all talking in Chamonix that the performance of the weekend was Petter Engdahl in the CCC with a GAP of 6:58/mi over 100km with over 19,000ft of climb. Insanely consistent and strong performance. Kilian was out of this world, but an 8:12/mi GAP pales in effort and shows that perhaps the UTMB record may end up being closer to 19:30 when Walmsley finally nails it (or a runner of his caliber).
Amazing.
GAP sucks. Using it to predict how fast a course could go, also sucks.
But setting that aside, yeah. You can maintain a higher effort for a shorter time. Engdahl ran for under 9:53, and Kilian ran for 19:49. Why is it surprising that the course record for the race that takes twice as long, would reflect a slowdown over the 100k?
Look at Sorokin's times. 100k in 6:05:41 (5:53 per mile). 100M in 11:14:56 (6:45 per mile). Maybe we should let him know his 100M record is soft.
Sure the UTMB CR will probably go lower. But this analysis is braindead.
GAP isn't a reliable variable to compare both performances, it's innacurate as a measure of relative effort and it doesn't take into account the effect of the uphills and downhills on the muscles and joints, or the difficulty of keeping taking calories in while sustaining such long effort.
Yup all this. Plus: GAP is super generous going downhill. If you go downhill at anything steeper than a 17% grade, GAP will adjust your speed HIGHER. Your GAP will be faster than your actual pace, and you aren't even running downhill very steep yet. (This is because they made their GAP model based on heart rate, and heart rate increases on downhills independent of effort for weird physiological reasons involving a BALL OF BLOOD in your lungs. Anyway GAP is crap)
Perhaps the move THIS year for Jimbo was to race CCC. He has a strong 100 in him over there. The obsession with winning UTMB over everything sets these guys back. Zach Miller shouldn’t run UTMB. He is another that has a strong enough 100k but looks like he’s holding in diarrhoea for the next 60 when doing a 100 miler.
Jim could have taken out CCC this year on his limited French prep, used it as motivation and then gone all out for 2023.
GAP sucks. Using it to predict how fast a course could go, also sucks.
But setting that aside, yeah. You can maintain a higher effort for a shorter time. Engdahl ran for under 9:53, and Kilian ran for 19:49. Why is it surprising that the course record for the race that takes twice as long, would reflect a slowdown over the 100k?
Look at Sorokin's times. 100k in 6:05:41 (5:53 per mile). 100M in 11:14:56 (6:45 per mile). Maybe we should let him know his 100M record is soft.
Sure the UTMB CR will probably go lower. But this analysis is braindead.
Aleksandr already knew the 11:14 was soft but then he ran 10:51 for 100 miles (actually a little faster due to the timing point in the race). Obviously still slower than his 100k pace.
I do think Petter's performance was one of the best runs of the whole UTMB week. It's hard to compare his CCC run with Kilian's UTMB though, not just due to the distance, but because of the weather (better in UTMB than CCC) and the fact that much of the UTMB is run in darkness, which is not the case for the top CCC guys.
From Grand Col Ferret to Chamonix, Petter took 6:37 and Kilian took 8:11.
Is there anything to say that Kílian was about to DNF? I don't think so. That's what Mathieu's team manager told him. Didn't mean it was necessarily true, and considering his experience probably wouldn't be if it was a purely psychological issue.
What it sounded like from Mathieu's story is that Kílian had been dealt such a mental blow by Jim, that he was about to settle with not winning.
I mean, fair enough to Jim there, he legitimately broke a legend. It's just that the story contained another player, and one that carried mental ambrosia.
So the true hero of UTMB 2022 is undoubtedly Mathieu Blanchard. He ran the most consistent race of all the key players. He also stirred a beast that had been tricked and cowed by Jim's quad-busting antics, which gave us the two best UTMB performances ever.
Mathieu absolutely gets my vote for star of the show. His post-race interview is the stuff of legends - layer upon layer upon layer of keen insights about so many things, but most of all the mental game.
Matthieu's quick rise in the sport is a bit suspicious, no?
Look at the joke of what the testing programs are in these kinds of ultras.
And remember CCC was rainy and wet... also, the CCC has much deeper talent pool than UTMB. CCC attracts some of the world's best short and long mountain runners, whereas UTMB is only ultra trail athletes.
I would still give Kilian the Performance of UTMB with his CR, since it is so revered, but Engdahl a close 2nd because his CR may last quite some time and he did it in road/trail hybrids!?
Mathieu absolutely gets my vote for star of the show. His post-race interview is the stuff of legends - layer upon layer upon layer of keen insights about so many things, but most of all the mental game.
Matthieu's quick rise in the sport is a bit suspicious, no?
Look at the joke of what the testing programs are in these kinds of ultras.
No, no it is not. Why don't you go back to trashing track and road racing, instead of trying to ruin yet another sport with constant negativity?
We were all talking in Chamonix that the performance of the weekend was Petter Engdahl in the CCC with a GAP of 6:58/mi over 100km with over 19,000ft of climb. Insanely consistent and strong performance. Kilian was out of this world, but an 8:12/mi GAP pales in effort and shows that perhaps the UTMB record may end up being closer to 19:30 when Walmsley finally nails it (or a runner of his caliber).
Amazing.
What shoes was Petter wearing. They looked like Adios Pros?! Maybe with a custom tread or something? Almost sprained my ankle thinking about running on trails in those. Maybe I’m wrong though
Zapatillas ganadoras del UTMB 2022 Ãnalisis las 6 zapatillas ganadoras de Zegama 2022. Las 3 zapatillas ganadoras en la categoría masculina y las 3 de la femenina en una edición que pasará a la historia.
What shoes was Petter wearing. They looked like Adios Pros?! Maybe with a custom tread or something? Almost sprained my ankle thinking about running on trails in those. Maybe I’m wrong though
You just need ankles like Petter, then you don't sprain them:
Matthieu's quick rise in the sport is a bit suspicious, no?
Look at the joke of what the testing programs are in these kinds of ultras.
No, no it is not. Why don't you go back to trashing track and road racing, instead of trying to ruin yet another sport with constant negativity?
Is this not a valid question?
On one thread Rojo brings up the possibility that some top athletes in a race like UTMB might not be 100% clean? Killian is special athlete having grown up in the mountains and having decades of experience and being the G.O.A.T of mountain running. But then here comes Matthieu who just started running like 5 years ago and now he's within 5 minutes of Killian and under a CR (sub 20 hours) time?
Why would this ultra running sport been any more clean than marathon racing and track and cycling? Skimo is also quite dirty. If anything it is probably more dirty and I'm not just taking about the mud.
No, no it is not. Why don't you go back to trashing track and road racing, instead of trying to ruin yet another sport with constant negativity?
Is this not a valid question?
On one thread Rojo brings up the possibility that some top athletes in a race like UTMB might not be 100% clean? Killian is special athlete having grown up in the mountains and having decades of experience and being the G.O.A.T of mountain running. But then here comes Matthieu who just started running like 5 years ago and now he's within 5 minutes of Killian and under a CR (sub 20 hours) time?
Why would this ultra running sport been any more clean than marathon racing and track and cycling? Skimo is also quite dirty. If anything it is probably more dirty and I'm not just taking about the mud.
It's valid in the world of negative Nellie's like you and Rojo
“From Champex-Lac my quads were just completely shot. So every uphill, I had absolutely nothing – I could barely even keep a straight line trying to walk on the rocks, it wasn’t even a hike.
“But I was eventually able to get a flow on the downhills."
It doesn't make sense. When your quads are shot, it's the downhills where you struggle. I've had quad issues several times in the past and the climbs were a relief. Flats and downhills were awful. I'm thinking maybe his problem was with his fueling, and not beat up legs. I've seen a comparison video of what the top 5 men had to eat and drink at aid stations, and Walmsley's didn't look great.
