Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Dude I don't think you understand how inspirational you are for older runners. Many of us who see you as someone who was an OK runner like the rest of us, but also shown through clever training and hard work you can go beyond peers.

This thread I think almost stands alone in LRC history, for hobby joggers who are maybe a bit older and run maybe 5+ hours a week most days, but still suck at the sharp end of events.

LRC is a toxic place with lots of smoke blown up a lot of asses but for real this is one time where someone should actually be less humble than they are.

This thread reminds everyone who isn't a pro, train smart, use your time wisely , focus on the gains you can that make the difference. Plus just because we are old, doesn't mean you can't keep improving. The best part being we have been able to follow it relatively in real time, from your plateau onwards.

Good luck in London. If you aren't shooting for at least 2:25, you should be!

I think a lot of the feedback from out Americans friends is the US marathon trials which they trained forever and not make, then some 40 year old plucky Brit comes along in his first marathon and runs a time which would get them in and they can’t get their head around it.

Good luck sirpoc hope to give you a congratulations as I’m volunteering at the finish line at London

Heck I'm not even "old" and I'm super inspired. At this point, I'm more invested in this guys London attempt than I was in Bekele's return to the Olympics, and that's saying something. Hopefully London goes better than that though.

I'm with you on that. This dude just turned 41 and I'm 31 running times he was two years ago. That tells me I needed to train smarter, to in turn train more, rather than harder. That is the absolute simple key to unlocking this amazing thread rather than just being for the running pensioners. I've read the key points to this thread many times and it took a while to grasp it all, but I'm already starting to see a huge upturn in my results and hope it carries on and this is just the start.

If he can just get to the start of the champs line behind Kiplimo with a "I hope I don't need a sirpoopy" shirt on for the trolls, or a "lexel luvs CS" , I'll be satisfied.

Sirpoc, thank you for chiming in and really hoping for a great result for you in London. One question I wanted to ask, how do you run with such a high cadence? Was your cadence this high when you started running four years ago?

I actually had to go back and look this up, that's how little I even have ever thought about cadence. In my mind, it's relatively out of what you can control or at least not worth worrying about.

My first run was 3km in February 2021. Pace was 7:48/km and my cadence was 176.

I did a really easy run in 2024, I think it's on Strava from September , a Saturday before a race. Was like 7:10/km and I the cadence for ever so slightly faster pace was 181 average.

I would say scaled to paces, it's close to being the same as it was from the start.

Edit: one thing I will add, a very helpful coach once told me after a parkrun (I think i ran like 17:54) that it would be "impossible" for me to break 17 ever, unless I lengthened my stide and stopped shuffling. That my comically shuffly style was meaning I was giving up kinetic energy so losing speed. Yes, that conversation really happened and I still see him every now and again at the track I go to coaching people, who pay him actual money.

Cadence at the weekend 1/2 was an average of 214, with a max of close to 230. That is very high for a race of that length.

I've always seen his high cadence as a massive advantage. Less GCT , reduced injury risk. He's a stride runner, cadence for the most part stays the same but stride just gets bigger with increased speed. I actually see this as efficient rather than the other way around. He's around 200 on easy runs. End of the day, he is faster than 99% of us will ever be so I am sure he does not care.

Yeah that run averaging >200 cadence blew me away. I'm not fast and not even delusional about how fast I could be. Strictly a hobby jogger trying to provide a model for my kids about lifelong fitness and continuous improvement. But my easy run cadence is around 150-160s, workouts are in the 180s, occasionally 190s, and topping out at 200 but never sustained more than a minute or two at that rate. I have wondered if the cycling background is what contributes to sirpoc's insane cadence.

the guys just won the EASTLEIGH 10KM in 30:41 you crank.

youre the type of goon who probably throths over Nick besters POV headcam vids, this old boy is faster than Bester and ran this time on a course with a decent hill on it. Besters ran 2:19, this guy can definitely do 2:22~

Id put money on him seeing of Ollie Garrod too, hes a strange guy who gets horny over smashing out a parkrun every week. he will no doubt do this the day before London to. hes also been producing many dire results this year, seems to have buried himself through years of obsessive behaviour and over-racing

Literally not one person will know what that irrelevant 10k race is. Come on now. I am firmly going to hand to agree with the majority and say it's ridiculous to think he is going to run under 2:30. Hey if he gets 2:35 good luck to him, it's good for an average hobby joggers. But he's not in the league of the names you mention and never will be.

You should approach his athletes some time and ask why they're preparing for the triple jump. Then tell them they'll break 15 if they adopt your super shuffle.

We appreciate you, no sarcasm. You're talented but extremely humble in a me-first world. Best of luck at London!

Yeah, for me as well. 5k time have not improved last 6 months but I have run very solid 10k and half marathon on this method. the half marathon pretty close to my PR even though again 2 years older now. So age graded this would have been PR even.
Best thing about this half marathon was that I felt the best I ever had at the finish line! 10k was pretty solid as well and also there I felt good at the finish. My 10k PR is 5 years back in the past and approaching 50 now it needs double improvement to get the finish times down.

My threshold paces have come down 10-15 seconds. I measure this with lactate meter. The 5k distance though have not improved in finish times but it "feels better". I did not lose my "kick" meaning that I can still finish strong with fast last kilometer and sprint finish. But everything faster than 10k pace fells pretty brutal now. I think the fun on 5k will start IF I manage to bring my threshold pace down even further. Another 10 seconds and then I can run 5Ks and 10Ks at threshold pace close to my old PRs.

the update nobody asked for:

pb did happen, 16:52 for a nice improvement from 17:25 three and a half months ago. Not to say Daniel's is better than sirpoc method, I was running about 10-15km / week more than before, so not a direct comparison.

I've got a marathon training block coming up in the summer and I might study the sirpoc adjusted marathon method. Eagerly watching to see his results at London!

Sirpoc performed another unapproved workout today! A progressive long run after doing a straight 10k tempo a few days ago. I don’t know if can trust our leader anymore. It’s time for a mutiny!

The sirpoc marathon special block is pretty interesting. For a while all he was doing was increasing mileage slightly and increasing the (still easy) long run time. Then he started adding in 3 x 5k most weeks, doing a 4 x 5k one week and eventually last week's 5 x 5k. But he's really only deviating from the core principles of the plan in the last 3 weeks before the marathon. I'll be super interested to hear him break down his thought process for how to adapt the method for the marathon after London. I'm also curious to see how soon he'll hop back on the 3 subT workouts after or if he'll finally take a day off.

Seems like a pretty clever bloke who is systematic about his training and careful about understanding the toll different runs take on the body, so even if he doesn’t follow a standard post-marathon recovery plan, I expect him to be pretty judicious about his recovery.

Me too. If London goes well then I'm convinced he's "solved" training on hobby jogger hours for 5k-Marathon, but I don't understand how he's constructed these marathon-specific workouts. The standard sub threshold stuff has been fully explained, but the recent workouts are a mystery to me, although obviously he plans everything very meticulously and for sure has good reasons. Would love to hear his thought process.