Dude, look at the course. The last what 4km are all downhill? There's nothing impressive here. Sirpoc fails again it should read. If you can't run 1:10 on that course you are doing something wrong!
Dude, look at the course. The last what 4km are all downhill? There's nothing impressive here. Sirpoc fails again it should read. If you can't run 1:10 on that course you are doing something wrong!
Hard to tell what is troll anymore, or are you just plain dumb. Sirpoc course today, around 600 feet elevation. That's around 28 feet per mile. Nothing about that says a downhill course. In fact, I would argue that beyond a rolling terrain and on the shoulder of a slightly hilly course. In no world is it even flat, let alone a downhill course unless you smoking crack. 1:08 on that is outrage for hobby jogger. Have a look at yourself. It's beyond where he even was in the half just before Christmas, 1:10 on an actual fast and flat course.
Congratulations him, I hope he still reads thread and this must be huge confidence boost for London
Dude, look at the course. The last what 4km are all downhill? There's nothing impressive here. Sirpoc fails again it should read. If you can't run 1:10 on that course you are doing something wrong!
Hard to tell what is troll anymore, or are you just plain dumb. Sirpoc course today, around 600 feet elevation. That's around 28 feet per mile. Nothing about that says a downhill course. In fact, I would argue that beyond a rolling terrain and on the shoulder of a slightly hilly course. In no world is it even flat, let alone a downhill course unless you smoking crack. 1:08 on that is outrage for hobby jogger. Have a look at yourself. It's beyond where he even was in the half just before Christmas, 1:10 on an actual fast and flat course.
Congratulations him, I hope he still reads thread and this must be huge confidence boost for London
28 feet per mile is more than these US colleges kids cross country courses. It’s impressive time today but I think we are all waiting to see how James does in London to know whether this is the variant we should do for marathon training, everything so far says yes
28 feet per mile is more than these US colleges kids cross country courses. It’s impressive time today but I think we are all waiting to see how James does in London to know whether this is the variant we should do for marathon training, everything so far says yes
Hopefully it translates. Obviously a run like this today on a pretty hilly course begs the question, what is a success at London though? The irony being since he has made the changes to give himself at least a shot at a respectable marathon time, he has PB'd at all other road distances.
I don't see why it's ironic . He's increased his training load, and he's always said more load means faster (until it doesn't). He's never dedicated this much time to training before, but this is a one off for London
I don't see why it's ironic . He's increased his training load, and he's always said more load means faster (until it doesn't). He's never dedicated this much time to training before, but this is a one off for London
I also came here to say this. If you speak to sirpoc you will find he pretty much plans everything he does to the tiniest detail, with a road map of where he wants to go. What this marathon block really shows again is:
Runners can monitor and track training load over time, much like cyclists, as long as they update their paces and are honest as they go.
The majority of hobby joggers, need to train more. More is likely going to make you fitter, as long as you can structure it in a system like this that absolutely minimises risk.
Until you get to a point you stop improving, unless you really, really and I mean really care about a specific event, don't bother with specificity.
Whilst his improvement after the plateau he hit for around 9-10 months way back now is super impressive, this is still a real drip feed approach. You aren't suddenly going to get better, but if you stick to it for a long period of time, there's a very good chance you are one of the majority it'll work for.
Good luck in London, 1:08 on that course is absolutely ridiculous. You also have to remember, as the thread gets older so does he. This is a 38-39 year old who has gone from average, to 41 and basically on the cusp of sub elite, arguably even there.
I also came here to say this. If you speak to sirpoc you will find he pretty much plans everything he does to the tiniest detail, with a road map of where he wants to go. What this marathon block really shows again is:
Runners can monitor and track training load over time, much like cyclists, as long as they update their paces and are honest as they go.
The majority of hobby joggers, need to train more. More is likely going to make you fitter, as long as you can structure it in a system like this that absolutely minimises risk.
Until you get to a point you stop improving, unless you really, really and I mean really care about a specific event, don't bother with specificity.
Whilst his improvement after the plateau he hit for around 9-10 months way back now is super impressive, this is still a real drip feed approach. You aren't suddenly going to get better, but if you stick to it for a long period of time, there's a very good chance you are one of the majority it'll work for.
Good luck in London, 1:08 on that course is absolutely ridiculous. You also have to remember, as the thread gets older so does he. This is a 38-39 year old who has gone from average, to 41 and basically on the cusp of sub elite, arguably even there.
This is a really excellent post. I think most people coming into this need to realise, there's the general NSM that seems to have gone mainstream and then there's the sirpoc method.
Those to have stuck to the principles and what he is trying to achieve have without a doubt been the ones with the most success. It's pretty clear when you see guys on Strava, mass of people here and the ones now dotted around Reddit. Those who understand what is listed above and try and not over complicate it, are the ones having the biggest success.
Biggest mistake seems to be runners wanting to bring over bits from their old failing training programs, just because it's familiar or they like it. Those willing to check in everything in at the door, have had the biggest success no doubt. The bullet points you lost above are key. If you don't understand the principles of that , then don't train like this.
As someone who was at the race sirpoc ran yesterday, just want to say how nice he was when I spoke to him like a stalker whilst waiting for the presentations after, but also how insane that time is on that course. The 3-4 climbs are no joke! I was pacing my wife in the main field and to see how easy he made coming back over the second climb was brilliant. We went over the first time and he had to part the sea of thousands and thousands of runners not expecting someone already to come back the other way.
I am in absolutely no competition, but I have been implementing some of this thread for a while and finally looking at London myself to maybe break 3 hours. 10 tries and counting in the big M. Will report back!
Like many here, I’ve been curious how this method could be translated to the marathon, so I’ve been watching Sirpoc’s London Marathon build with great interest. Initially I was a little underwhelmed by his half marathon result compared to his recent 10k, and took that to mean that this method may be better for 5k/10k than for the half and probably a bit less effective for the full marathon. His 10k of 30:41 corresponds to a VDOT of 70.9, while his half marathon 1:08:50 only corresponds to a VDOT of 69.5.
Looking more closely at it however, I’d say the significant elevation gain on this course is worth at least a minute vs a flatter course, putting the performance much more in line with his 10k. In addition, he won by over a minute, so he clearly ran solo the whole way. He also won his 10k, but it looks like there were a few people he would have been running with for most of the race.
Given the rule of thumb of drafting being worth ~3 minutes in a marathon, and there being plenty of people to run with at London, it should be a much more optimal environment for running fast. Barring a major fueling issue (unlikely given his usual methodical planning as well as his cycling background) or some unforeseen muscle cramping, I expect him to run 2:20-2:24 at London, with an outside shot of going under 2:20.
I don’t want to set expectations too high, as even 2:29 or so is quite impressive for a debut and wouldn’t take away anything from all he’s accomplished so far. I’m curious to see what he does next after the marathon and when, if ever, he’ll run into the ceiling of improvement from this method.
Like many here, I’ve been curious how this method could be translated to the marathon, so I’ve been watching Sirpoc’s London Marathon build with great interest. Initially I was a little underwhelmed by his half marathon result compared to his recent 10k, and took that to mean that this method may be better for 5k/10k than for the half and probably a bit less effective for the full marathon. His 10k of 30:41 corresponds to a VDOT of 70.9, while his half marathon 1:08:50 only corresponds to a VDOT of 69.5.
Looking more closely at it however, I’d say the significant elevation gain on this course is worth at least a minute vs a flatter course, putting the performance much more in line with his 10k. In addition, he won by over a minute, so he clearly ran solo the whole way. He also won his 10k, but it looks like there were a few people he would have been running with for most of the race.
Given the rule of thumb of drafting being worth ~3 minutes in a marathon, and there being plenty of people to run with at London, it should be a much more optimal environment for running fast. Barring a major fueling issue (unlikely given his usual methodical planning as well as his cycling background) or some unforeseen muscle cramping, I expect him to run 2:20-2:24 at London, with an outside shot of going under 2:20.
I don’t want to set expectations too high, as even 2:29 or so is quite impressive for a debut and wouldn’t take away anything from all he’s accomplished so far. I’m curious to see what he does next after the marathon and when, if ever, he’ll run into the ceiling of improvement from this method.
There is 0% chance he runs under 2:20 in his first marathon. Probably 0% chance for sub 2:25. 2:30, maybe 20% chance at best. He just ran a half in 1:08:51. He has zero and I mean zero chance of sub 2:20. You guys are fricking nuts
Dude, look at the course. The last what 4km are all downhill? There's nothing impressive here. Sirpoc fails again it should read. If you can't run 1:10 on that course you are doing something wrong!
He set the course record. So no matter how easy you think the course is, he did it faster than anyone ever has. Stop being a jerk
Dude, look at the course. The last what 4km are all downhill? There's nothing impressive here. Sirpoc fails again it should read. If you can't run 1:10 on that course you are doing something wrong!
0/10 for troll attempt. I've run that HM before, also being UK based. Crazy to suggest that is a fast course or even a medium fast course. A lot of climbing for a road half and is going to slow you down by at least a minute, probably more, even if you are light. Also, just about everyone always reports the course long.
Previous course record was about 1:11 something in 2016 and a few people have in that range, ran by previous sub elites who were sub 15/2:25 guys.
Unless he blows up or something happens as per a marathon, I'll say the opposite and say almost zero chance he doesn't run sub 2:30 in my opinion. I had a friend who ran this half at the weekend in 1:15 range and had a good race and I would expect him to go around 2:36-39 range for London as per his previous marathon results and where he is at now compared to before. Sirpoc beat him by around 7 minutes in a half.
0/10 for troll attempt. I've run that HM before, also being UK based. Crazy to suggest that is a fast course or even a medium fast course. A lot of climbing for a road half and is going to slow you down by at least a minute, probably more, even if you are light. Also, just about everyone always reports the course long.
Previous course record was about 1:11 something in 2016 and a few people have in that range, ran by previous sub elites who were sub 15/2:25 guys.
Unless he blows up or something happens as per a marathon, I'll say the opposite and say almost zero chance he doesn't run sub 2:30 in my opinion. I had a friend who ran this half at the weekend in 1:15 range and had a good race and I would expect him to go around 2:36-39 range for London as per his previous marathon results and where he is at now compared to before. Sirpoc beat him by around 7 minutes in a half.
I was there in 2022, did the full. I think that was the course record, 1:11:17 for the half. Wasn't the best of conditions, worse than yesterday but not 2.5+ mins worse.
Guy who ran that is reasonably well known in bigger races races in UK scene, for context went on to run 2:18:51 at London marathon that year. Ran 2:17 the year after and is around a low 30 min 10k runner.
Obviously you have no idea how hard he went in the half, but gives some context that it would be a total shock if sirpoc didn't run 2:30 as a minimum. Conditions can really affect London though +/- 5 min swings are possible given forecasts.