Is there a formula for calculating performance in various heat and humidity conditions at around sea level?
It seems a lot better when it is about 60-65 with some humidity for racing and training. Muscles ARE looser and zippier. Raced considerably better than in cold conditions.
Hi Grete.
Re: 2 or 3 workouts… it's a good bet to go with 3 if you count the weekend long run as one of them. I do. What's not difficult about a middle distance runner going out for a 90min run?! The other 4 days were simply recovery runs… get your easy running minutes in, add a few strides, do some dynamic core work, and/or as much "non-running" work you can make time for. Take a day completely off every 3rd or 4th week or when your body tells your brain to!
My banner masters years (age 43-47) were focused on 800/1500 championship racing (Nats & Worlds) and included 2 wicked tough speed sessions per week strategically spaced with only one day recovery in-between. ie. Tue & Thur on the track. I did this to prepare for "the rounds" at worlds. 800 prelims, semi-finals, finals, 1500 semi-final, final. Going in I knew I was talented (with speed) but so were ALL the other athletes. My confidence was that I believed I had to be one of the strongest on the track for 5 races in 8 days. It worked for me as I made the medal stand in both events.
Now-a-days I must remind myself "Hey KP, you're not 45 anymore!" So approaching 55 I'm on a similar ramp up program but have added another recovery day to my 2 or 3 workouts per week. Tue & Friday with a Sunday long run. Make sense? Ain't no magic to any of this… only common sense. Even though we all know this 50+ masters track thing is still a big human performance and aging experiment.
KP
GreteHund wrote:
Here is my question for the seasoned pros here on this board. For the last 3 years, I have been averaging 3 "hard" workouts a week. Of course, I will drop one if I am having a problem of some sort. This year I want to work more on speed, so trying to run less mileage and with more intensity. So I am wondering - do most of you do 2 or 3 speed workouts a week during high training periods? Has that changed from what you did before hitting 50 age bracket?
Much thanks for any guidance.
What KP said ;-)
Also, I think it depends on exactly which race you want to run. Prepping for an 800 will include more 100’s, 200’s and drills while it seems people have raced well in the 5 and 10K off widely varying methods. Just reviewing the master’s profiles below shows an amazing variety of how people are getting it done.
http://www.runnersworld.com/masters/masters-profilesThe other variable is figuring out which workouts your legs respond to. That can take a while and some experimentation. Finally, in doing intervals I think its critical to be very specific with exactly what times you want to hit. Choosing realistic numbers is an art in itself. So much of it is mental that if you just go on how you feel you won’t get there. If you are running in a group, pick one that is faster than you. My best workouts ever were with me in last place just hanging on….but the people up front were really fast.
Thanks KP and Rtype for the guidance! Pretty motivating to read some of the master profile stories that Rtype's link provides!
Will plan to keep it at 2 to 3 hard workouts/week - allowing for 2 if extra recovery needed. Sounds like from both of you that I will have to play around with some workouts and see where I have the best response. I am "assuming" that tempo's are more beneficial for me - because it was for my marathon training. May have to recalculate with 5K - 10K training regimen. will be fun figuring it out and staying healthy in the interim.
Have used printouts from McMillan calculator to gauge tempo, interval pacing - all geared toward a 20:30 5K time. Once I hit the 20:30, then I think I can start training using 20 min 5K times. Hopefully that will get me to the sub-20 in the 5K that I am hoping for. Certainly nothing like you speedsters - but will be a PR for me.
Speaking of speedsters - Alan Culpepper was here talking with our training group (and he has a book out). He was discussing why he moved from 10K m event to the marathon after the 2000 Olympics and said it was because the Ethopian leaders in the event did the last 5K of the 10K m FASTER than the American record for the 5K. WOW! So, he just reset his goals for the marathon. Interesting to hear that it did not discourage him - just caused him to reset.
MichRunGeezer wrote:
Is there a formula for calculating performance in various heat and humidity conditions at around sea level?
It seems a lot better when it is about 60-65 with some humidity for racing and training. Muscles ARE looser and zippier. Raced considerably better than in cold conditions.
MichRunGeezer - I have used McMillan Calculator - PRO series to figure this. Living in Texas and suffering in the summers, I have had to readjust summer training paces to meet heat/humidity conditions. I think the PRO subscription cost me $20 for a year - pretty much just used for a year and printed out a number of schedules that I still use today.
Thanks !
Actually, the McMillan calculator is not training paces for a goal time that you plug in. It is suggested training paces for your next race, based on the last actual race time that you plug in. In other words, the next improvement is built in. If you put in a goal time, the suggested paces are too fast for current fitness. McMillen explains this on his website, but I can't find it easily right now using the mobile site.
I can tell you that if I put in a half marathon finish time, and then run his paces, he has me running in the correct HR zone. That's why I "gave up on" HR training -- McMillan gives the same answer, and is simpler to use.
Alan Bennet wrote:
Actually, the McMillan calculator is not training paces for a goal time that you plug in. It is suggested training paces for your next race, based on the last actual race time that you plug in. In other words, the next improvement is built in. If you put in a goal time, the suggested paces are too fast for current fitness. McMillan explains this on his website, but I can't find it easily right now using the mobile site.
I can tell you that if I put in a half marathon finish time, and then run his paces, he has me running in the correct HR zone. That's why I "gave up on" HR training -- McMillan gives the same answer, and is simpler to use.
Alan - I think the section regarding heat/humidity factors for McMillan give you % to apply to pacing for incremental heat/humidity changes. Is my memory correct on that? I don't have the subscription any longer, so hope I gave MichGeezer reliable info for that question.
Here's a link for a calculator that may be helpful. I haven't used this myself so I have no idea if it is accurate - but I may try it this summer.
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Week 200
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Greetings, 50+ers! It is a sunshiny spring day here in the bluegrass, and I wish a Happy Easter to those followers on this beautiful morn. Was up a little late watching the Cats and Badgers. Had some mixed emotions after the game, but I'm a Badger to the core. I cheerfully await the rematch with Duke for the NCAA title. Had an odd running week. I was pretty listless through mid-week, took a couple days off and felt peppier Friday and Saturday. I managed 33 miles on 5 days of running and I climbed stairs for a bit on Wednesday. Log reads as such:
Sun: 5.2 easy (7:50 pace)
Mon: 4.3 very easy
Tue: 7.2 variable pace (6:47 for mile 4)….but it was an arduous slog (7:43 avg pace)
Wed: no running, but 4x11-story stair-climb (dead legs)
Thur: off (legs were still feeling pretty dead….then the torrential rains started)
Fri: 5.0 w/2 miles @sub-7 pace (6:54, 6:28)…felt much better than Tuesday.
Sat: 10.4 steady (7:28 pace) Longest run since the HM start of November.
Maybe I was a little tired from the week before; maybe it was the first 70-degree days; maybe it was lack of sleep…probably a combination of all, but Monday through Thursday, I was just wiped out. A good night’s sleep Thursday, and I really felt much peppier by the weekend. Really happy with the long run Saturday; a good steady pace, not pushing it, but mindfully keeping the pace. Hopefully, this will kick-start me into the upper 30’s on towards 40+ mpw soon.
Thanks for the props last week, Rtype and KP. I’m glad you put the “brag” in quotes, KP, because I put up my numbers good or bad, so anyone can see the where things have gone right, and where they’ve gone wrong. As I say to my student, we learn from our mistakes….and by that measure I’ve learned quite a lot! ;-)
Fantastic racing by SCgal and Dave last week. Some really awesome workouts, too! Really good to see some good discussion on running in wind and heat and humidity; thanks for the links….very interesting stuff! So, KP, are you in?
https://sites.google.com/site/ormastersmile/
Nice article from March Running Times:
http://www.runnersworld.com/masters-training/mastering-running-as-you-age
That’s all I got! Hope you get to spend the day with family and friends. I’ll look forward to reading how your weeks have gone, and especially for any race reports!
All the Best! Oh, and GO BADGERS!!
Shout out to MF for toeing the line in the Masters Mile yesterday at SFSU.
Tired training week for me. Hence taking this glorious Easter sunday off.
Ongoing promising work including a 62 flat 400 after 6 x 200 & 6 x 400 at mile race pace. But just 2 days later the 4 x 200 & 5 x 600s at same pace were a struggle. As was yesterday morning's 90mins with last 30mins at 2mins on 2mins off tempo pace.
LucKY2b… not planning on PDX Track Classic Masters Mile 'cause i'm not fast enough. Clingan's entry is 4:45 and under.
KP
Another week in the books. My wife and I spent the last 8 days in sunny Yuma AZ. A big change from wet cold Puyallup Wa. It was odd getting my runs in at 7:00 am and seeing folks mowing the lawn and washing cars at that time.
Monday 7 miles 150 HR. 9:10
Tuesday 8.8 miles 152 HR. 9:08
Wednesday 8 miles 150 HR
Thursday no running, pontoon boat ride down the Colorado river
Friday 7 miles 152 HR 9:08
Saturday 12 miles 145 HR 9:20
43.5 total
The pre marathon jitters are starting :-) and it's still a month to go.
Happy Easter and Passover Fellow 50+ers,
U-rah-rah! Wisconsin! I stayed up way too late cheering for my fellow Big 10 team last night and I paid for it in my LR this morning. It will be exciting to see the matchup on Monday - Duke looked fantastic against MSU.
It was a back-to-work training week for me with 43 miles in 7 workouts. I've got a HM on April 25 so I need to get back into longer runs before it gets too hot and humid here:
M - 4 easy
T - 4 easy
W - 2 wu, 8X200/200, 2 cd
R - 4 easy
F - 6 on hills + strides
S - 2wu, 3Xmi/400, 2cd
S - 10
LucKY - good to see your mileage creeping up and times coming down even during a "dead leg" week.
Grete - When are you planning to run your 5K/10K? I think you're going to do well.
KP - I often think the reason we can breeze through intervals one day and struggle the next is more mental than physical. I can usually rally for the last few repeats even though I might drag through the first ones. I don't think that can be a physical issue - at least for me.
Hope you all run with joy this week!
Happy Easter and Passover! I am spending the day packing boxes and getting rid of junk - Grete, I am moving to Los Angeles due to my spouse's new job opportunity, which was a fantastic one (we are very excited about it). Apartment lease in LA has been signed and movers come here on the 16th. I'm still working but am transitioning out and training my replacement. I will be able to experience semi-retirement since I plan on pursuing part-time work opportunities when I'm ready to look which will not be for a couple of months, giving me LOTS of time to train and settle in. Santa Monica College is about a 10 minute drive away....
Soooo....yesterday I did a speed/speed endurance workout which killed me. It was speed work but at a longer interval distance than you'd usually do for a pure speed interval (150m). Intervals were timed and I had 2 mins rest in between. 22 seconds, 21 seconds, 23 seconds, and then my hamstrings hollered "quit!" This was done after practicing hurdles and starts, so when all was said and done I assumed the praying position on the track as my legs wouldn't hold me. I took a nice long nap that afternoon.
For the upcoming week: Monday, weight room. Tuesday, speed endurance. Wednesday, going out to celebrate my step-daughter's birthday. Thursday, speed endurance. Friday, another fun "good-bye" evening with friends. Saturday, packing! Sunday, hurdles and more of those lovely 150s.
(Shout out to MF for his mile race!)
Have a great week!
Mon = 3, easy trail and road
Tue = 5, hard, Greenway miles of 6:16, 7:05, 7:03 w 300 meter walk between (windy)
Wed = 3, easy trail/road
Thr = 3, medium rocky trail
Fri = 2, easy, road (caught cold/allergies)
Sat = 5, hard, very windy track, still sick. 10 400's/w 200 walk, ave 91.2
Sun = 3, easy mountain
Total = 24
Got a few good workouts in despite feeling crummy due to either allergies a cold or both.
On Tue the wind had picked up to ridiculous levels. I knew meeting any type of time goals would be impossible. I figured that since my first mile was downwind I'd just have fun with it and push it really hard. When I turned around to face the wind it was like running in leg weights. Still, all in all, it was a good workout.
By Thur I don't know if it was allergies or a virus but I was hacking and coughing. By track-time Sat I still felt like crap plus it was very windy. I decided to change it up again and do a classic: 10 400's. I did not push super hard as I just did not feel like it. I concentrated on form, keeping my arms low, not moving them so much, and most of all, not over-striding. I was happy to hit an ave of 91.2 since I felt like crap and it was windy to boot!
Since I think allergies are the cause of my hacking, today I drove up to around 4000 feet and ran at a place where nothing is blooming yet. No itchy burning eyes and nose so that was nice.
Have a great week everyone.
Thanks for the link.
Just went to Athlinks.com and for some of the races they now post the temp, humidity and wind conditions. I did my PR at age 56 in 2013 of 18:26 5k in 99% humidity, 64 degrees, and 5 mph wind from wsw. 3:10 slower than 30 years prior.
Seem to do better outdoors in the Mile too, not as dry as indoor track.
Week 200: 3 hours 29 minutes in 7 runs, 6 @26 mins and Saturday @53 mins (one minute over).
The plan is to run 7 days most weeks, +1 minute/week to the daily run, +2 minutes/week to the Saturday run, and do that for 40 weeks, through the end of December 2015. Then change to a more traditional training plan. It's an experiment. I wouldn't do it just because it worked for Whitlock, as I am leery of copying workouts being done by freaks of nature. But Rtype vouched for it and that makes it worth trying. One potential problem which I notice already is that it's hard to hold back on such short runs. I'll have to watch that carefully when they get up in the 40 minute range.
I happened to scroll back through my log, and was pretty surprised at my consistency running 3 times/week since December. I did not miss once in 16 weeks! We'll see if the new plan goes so well.
About the McMillan calculator, I'm so far behind the times, I didn't even realize that he hid his training paces behind the PRO feature. The reason why -- in 2013 I paid for his McRun app, and have been using that exclusively. It works the way his website used to work. You put in your race time (no place for a goal time) and it gives both equivalent performances and training paces. But it does not have any adjustments for heat, humidity, or anything, so the simple answer is I don't know how to use the PRO calculator for those.
@Rtype - when I learned that saying as a lad, it ended "but I can't so I shan't."
Is it just me, or has Runner's World improved greatly in the past few years? There seems to be a lot less recycled generic content. In the May issue there are a couple of articles, "Run Like Meb" and "Native Sun" (about Craig Curley) that I think are pretty good. And there seems to be similar in every recent issue. But someone needs to tell Meb he is doing his lunges incorrectly. In the photo on page 85 his knee is going past the vertical, and that's dangerous.
KP 62 for 300 is fast! Haven't been that fast or faster since my early 40s, when I could still do 4:40+/- for the mile.
Sort of a decent week, but definitely recovery.
Monday was supposed to be an easy 6, but I did a club run and ended up doing 7:00 pace (faster a the end) on Boulder bike paths. That was following three consecutive doubles and a moderate 13 miler on Sunday. So that set me up for being tired. I did a tempo on Tuesday and was 10 sec/mile off. So Wed was just recovery 5, Thursday rest (snowing, tired, long day at work...), and I didn't start feeling good again until the end of Friday's fartlek.
Moderate 9 mile trail run yesterday (1500 vert) and easy 12 miler today.
So 50 for the week. HM next weekend and looking forward to that. Signed up for 25K trail race in May.
31 miles this week. I am recovering from a couple of minor injuries and just trying to build the mileage up again and get healthy. Nothing special going on for awhile.
M: rest.
T: 6 miles (59:33)
W: 6 miles (59:05)
R: 6 miles (58:29)
F: 6 miles (58:03)
SA: 6 miles (57:33)
SU: 8.8 miles (1:18:48)
My goal for Tues-Sat was to run about 60 min a day, and I could slightly increase the pace each day. Sunday's run was a out-and-back bike trail I use for my "fitness test." (The fastest I have run this course is 1:04, so I have a long way to go.)
I also notice that there is still substantial difference between my right and left side both in strength and mobility. So working on that should be my priority.
And go Badgers! (From an ABDfan.)