50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Greetings, guys and gals. Been away a while. Just work and running and playing. Have been over/under 30 miles/week for the last couple months, just felt a bit of plantar fascia pain tonight, though! Ow. My wife and I had a good track session today, too. I ran 8 x 400 and she ran 8 x 300, so I ran my first 100 alone, we finished together. Two weeks ago she suffered a lot on a much longer starting interval (breathing was too hard and not recovering, which scares her a lot!). I averaged 1:44, she went 1:17.

Work is tough, we have had new owners the last 3 months and so much to adjust to, new systems, new ways to accept shipments, etc. Fortunately, our running customers are as always, just great to meet and work with. With my wife being store manager, it adds a lot to her workday. Tougher yet was a sudden death of her brother a week and a half ago. He was a long time smoker, so not healthy, but was sudden. Very shocking to his long time friend, partner, wife. They'd hoped a nice retirement to an 80 acre farm, but now it's not the same. So we'll counting our health and blessings.

We skipped a St Pat's 4 miler to sleep in a couple weeks back, glad we did, we needed the rest. We do plan to run the Sabino Canyon 12 km in Tucson in a couple weeks, but have not done anything specific to up and downhills. Hope to get my plantar ok by then for certain. All the best of good health to all.

Hi All,

Nationals was so much fun! It was wonderful to spend time with friends from around the country and to compete with/against such great athletes. I wish I could have talked to Spikez longer but my relay was being called and the bull pen official was very strict so I literally had to run:-). I loved having a team to run for and we finished 3rd so there is plenty to celebrate.

The weekend went very well for me. All of the miles and intervals I've been running really paid off. My goal in the 3,000, which was on Friday, was to go under 14:00. My legs felt great and having my first pair of flats made it feel like I was flying. I ended up at 13:34 for 4th which I'm very excited about because the runners who beat me are all world/national caliber. I ran my pace and didn't panic when lots of other ladies took off like it was a sprint and it paid off when I passed them from the mile on!

On Saturday in the mile I faced the same competition and got 5th, going under 7:00 for the first time. Again, I knew what my splits should be and I ran right on target, beating my goal time by 5 seconds. I also ran on our 4 X 800 Club relay which we won and set an AR by 23 seconds!

Yesterday, I did the 3,000 race walk to get points for our team. With three weeks of training I got second (out of 3!) and didn't get one warning from the judges. My only goal there was to not be DQd so I met that one. Then we ran the 4X400 relay and broke another AR. Unfortunately, another team crushed us so we only got second but I'm happy I survived the sprint.

Today I'm resting my legs and going to have an easy week in preparation for the Monument Avenue 10k in Richmond. The forecast is for snow so that should be interesting. I'm in a pretty aggressive wave for me after all the racing last weekend, but this is my spring goal race so I'll just rest and trust in my conditioning. Happy spring to you all!

First marathon I say no, stick to the schedule. I haven't looked at Higdon's intermediate in years but IIRC his 20 is already more than the recommended 25% of weekly mileage. 22, 24 these additional miles are real, with real risks. The "confidence" boost is all in your head, you can get that in other ways besides putting dubious extra miles on your longest run. The metric runners do 30 km, that's not even 20 miles. They seem to run fine on that.

It's natural to be second guessing everything. Just wait until the taper when you have nothing to do but think.

Thanks again Alan, I want it all and I want it now damnit :-)

I will stick to the program

Congrats to the racers - enjoyed reading about the track races and all the success. You all are superstars!!

I have taken a much-needed step away from running. Still ran 5 - 6 days a week, but focused on just having fun. Also managed to finalize some things that have been sitting in my "to-do later, but right now I am totally obsessed with running" pile. Funny how much more energy I have when I am not running 10 + miles/day.

Started my running log again this week, so will start posting regularly again. Look forward to re-connecting with everyone and hearing about all the progress this year on the 50+ board.

Best regards -

MichiganRunningGeezer wrote:

Nice distance . Could you describe your progression runs, timewise? I haven't tried that training strategy.

When I do progression on a treadmill, I start very slow (6mph) and raise the pace by 0.1mph every 0.2 mile. Once I reach a "target" pace, I stay there until one mile left, and then start decelerating. The "target pace" could be 7mph (8:34/mile) for an easy run, 8mph(7:30/mile) for a marathon pace run, or something faster for HM pace, etc.

For example, the 12 progression for MP pace could look something like: 9:40-8:58-8:20-7:47-7:30... 7:30-8:30.

When I do this on a track, I don't start this slow (8:15-30 for the first mile), and I also don't include deceleration at the end.You can think of this as a variation of warm-up/tempo run(/cool down) without any break in between.

Speaking of which, I hurt my hamstring (again!) during a progression run on Wednesday. My week went like this:

M: rest.

T: 4 miles easy / 7 miles easy.

W: 11 miles progression.

R: 30 min stationary bike / 30 min elliptical.

F-SU: the same as Thursday.

I felt unusual tension on my hamstring about 10.5 miles into my run. I started slowing down immediately and stopped running at 11 miles. I did not feel any "pull" but the next day if felt exactly like muscle strain. So I have cross trained for 4 days, and plan to get back to running on Tuesday.

Ended up salvaging the week despite having a scare on Monday. Pulled a groin, or something, while working Monday. Got my two runs in but the pain stopped me after 4 steps on my test run Tuesday. Went for another test run Wednesday and the pain was nearly completely gone. Hasn't bothered me since. Weird...

Anyhow, made it 58 miles with Tuesday being an off day. Seemed like it was cold and windy everyday.

M: am: 4.5 pm: 5.4 both easy untimed

T: Off

W: 8.3 miles with 5x1000 all 3:30. w/200 jog rest

Th: am: 4.5 pm: 7.7 @ 7:29/mi 3 hilly loops in the park

F: 8 miles @ 7:29 w/8x30 sec on/off

S: 12.2 miles @ 6:53 w/14x60 sec on/off

S: 7 miles easy

I've been feeling sluggish for a while...hopeful a lighter week will give me some legs for my 8K on Saturday.

Have a good one,

Dave

Welcome back, Grete. Its great you're enjoying your running again. I'll look forward to reading your posts!

Wow! Some great stuff coming in this week.

@SCGal and Spikez, thanks for the great race reports! And congratulations on your accolades on the track! Well deserved, indeed!

@MF, super glad to hear that you are getting back on the right trajectory, I'm feeling similarly, but am still a little hesitant to attack the track and speed training....I will do a few test runs on the track soon, maybe by July I might even try a track meet, though all-comers meets in the summer aren't too common 'round here.

@Gretehund, so glad to hear from you. It's good to take some time off and recalibrate and reassess. Marathon training is a real time commitment....might be one reason I shy away from it. Glad you've been able to just run for fun, hopefully, your new vector includes a lot more of that!

@Paul061, ain't that the truth! How many train-wrecks are along the quest to better times? Magill, Daniels, and others remind us to train where we're at not where we want to be. That being said, I'll just say that my seasoned marathoning friend, who negative splits his marathons (he's just turning 50 and is right around 3:00), does do 22-milers.

@Mike L, Sorry about the PF. Pretty unpredictable which way that'll go. Condolences on the loss of your wife's brother.

@KP, dang! Your tank is getting pretty big! Those are some nice miles. I got a look at the 800-m 45-49 division (my friend was in that race, and was able to hang for about two laps, but then blew up).

All the races can be viewed from here, BTW:

http://www.usatf.tv/gprofile.php?do=view_event&event_id=1079&mgroup_id=45365&year=2015

Man does Berra look strong and smooth, he hardly looks like he is trying. Thoughts?

@Dave, glad your groin wasn't completely jacked up. I've had situations where even a minor groin strain evolves into a more serious issue (compensation related) elsewhere. A light week sounds like a good idea.

To all you other guys, nice to see a lot of good weeks with healthy mileage!

Cheers!

I think one reason racerdb bounces back quickly from his injuries is because he gets them from work, not from running. But I thought calling 5x1000 in 3:30 a "test run" was pretty funny.

lucKY2b wrote:

@Paul061, ain't that the truth! How many train-wrecks are along the quest to better times? ...

All of them, I think.

lucKY2b wrote:

... Magill, Daniels, and others remind us to train where we're at not where we want to be. That being said, I'll just say that my seasoned marathoning friend, who negative splits his marathons (he's just turning 50 and is right around 3:00), does do 22-milers.

Okay, you probably know what I am about to say, but perhaps Paul061 does not. (A) Your friend is finishing his 22-miler in under three hours. This is key. Somewhere in the 2:45-3:00 range, you have achieved all the aerobic benefits, beyond that you are just grinding yourself down. Three hours at Paul061's long run pace of 9:15 works out to 19.5 miles. I did a 22 before my first marathon (last 8 weeks were 20, 12, 20, 12, 22, 12, 8, race), took me about 3:45, and I think it just made me tired. My coach said I looked strong, but in retrospect it was a mistake. Better to save it for the race. (B) The week of his 22, I am guessing your friend is running 80+ mpw, and I would be shocked if he were doing less than 70. Higdon's Intermediate 1 peaks at 43 mpw. The 20-miler is 46% (!) of that weekly mileage. In other words, Higdon has already made an aggressive compromise between safety and confidence. For what it's worth, the group I run with used to do 22-milers, now the longest run is 20. The reasoning is that there was not enough weekly mileage to support a 22.

Sorry to go on and on, internet hazard I guess.

Yes, Alan, I wasn't trying to disagree with you. As I said, my friend is a seasoned marathoner that negative splits his marathons, and he typically runs 60-70 mpw (sometimes more). So my apologies, I wasn't suggesting that Paul061 do a 22-miler this time around, but if he gets to a point in his training where he is serious about racing a marathon (not just completing one) he'll need to build up to the necessary mileage, and he'll want to get those 22-mile runs in. From my own failed experience running a couple of marathons, where I bonked badly (positive split by 13 minutes at Chicago in '09), I know that for me, 50-60 mpw and 20-mile long runs won't cut it.

Thanks for the great discussions Alan and luCY2b I really appreciate it. Since I don't really have a coach, run by myself and have really no one to talk about this to, it's nice to be able to pass by ideas and get feedback. With that said, I did stop by the running store to bug the owner and start to develop a plan for the RACE :-). The goal is negative split, but I need to figure out those paces.

I'm going to do 18 on Friday with the first 2 at 9:15 warm up then 14 at 8:15 which may or may not me MP and just play it by ear and see how it feels, then 2 at cool down. I have Sat, Sun and maybe Mon that I'm travelling and wont really be able to run so I can recover.

I'm an engineer, so I'm a data/testing/confidence kinda guy. Best case for this race is I negative split, come in around 3:40 or so train more and hit my time in Portland. Worst case, I get caught up in the moment, blow up and have a 6 mile hike at the end. I REALLY do appreciate the feedback and discussion. And it is OK to say "dude you're a idiot" :-)

paul061 wrote:

And it is OK to say "dude you're a idiot" :-)

When it comes to the marathoning, I'm the idiot....so no worries there. Again, in speaking with my experienced marathoner friends, one other thing is to practice fueling during your long runs, so that you'll be accustomed to taking in fuel during the actual race. My understanding is that if you don't do this, your body may not properly adapt to accept fuel during the race (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and you'll run out (ie-bonk). And if someone knows a good resource for advice on fueling, I'd like to know.

Awesome site, thank you. I do practice fueling the way she says. I plan on 10 gels for the marathon, I may look funny carrying a shopping bag around with me though :-). I bonked once in a 30K trail race that I was really unprepared for (but ran anyways) and it wasn't fun, leg cramps, right leg actually stopped working for about a minute, dizzy. After a 2 minute walk it got better and I finished.

Some good training recently; long runs of 11-12 miles @ 7:05-7:15 pace...2x800@3:00 then 4 mile threshold at 6:38 pace...4x1000 w/2:00 rest @ 3:45...3x(5x400) w/80"/3' rest @ 85/400 average...last one was today at lunchtime!

On another note, has anyone used an Alter-G as part of their regular training? We have one and I'm trying to quantify the different parameters of % incline, % bodyweight and speed as they equate to outside running. Thoughts?

Thanks for the response. Hope you recover quickly -

got in 80 last week, 4 x 13 in two runs, 1 x 13.1 ( last 2 miles 8:44 and 9:26, the rest averaged 8:09 ) , 2 x 8 in two runs. Rather exhausted, took yesterday off,

worked today on feet most of day, did 6 miles total with 5 x 1:00 - 1:31 up local highway overpass ( distances differed somewhat ), GPS said 6:07 down to 5:21 pace but when you hit .17 and immediately stop, i think it registers quite differently if you stop it just before .18

Hope this effort pays off for 1 mile to 5k races this summer .

Here's to Spring !!

In case some of you didn't see this in the NYTimes:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/how-exercise-may-aid-cancer-treatment/

Prior research by some of these people is why I trained the way I did when I had to deal with cancer again just over two years ago. I've been following Lee Jones' research for almost 4 years now. However, these studies still need to be done in humans. With all the charity runs for cancer it is shocking that we are still stuck in mouse models, mostly because very little, if any, of the cancer charity run money goes to exercise research.

If you can donate to exercise-oncology research just once a year, even a small amount, and tell others, that can help to get human research sooner rather than later. Lee Jones is one of WorkOut Cancer's scientific advisors, and he just received grants from AKTIVAgainst Cancer (Grete Waitz co-founded charity).

We could also use some runners to fundraise for us. Unfortunately, WorkOut Cancer was denied charity bibs for NYC Marathon, but if you get a bib you can still fundraise for us through E-Race Cancer (our fundraising e-vent). AKTIV I'm sure has charity bibs.

http://workoutcancer.org/E-Race_Cancer.html#.VRVZnDvF900

Thank you!

Ken

Well the week for me is done:

4 easy Monday

7 easy Tuesday

8 easy Wed

Thursday off

18 hard/blow up Friday

37 total

The 18 I did today was really disapointing. I am fretting over what my marathon pace should be so I figured I'd practice today. It was after work, slightly windy, 70 degrees. I started off two mile warm up at 9:15 then boosted it to 8:15. Felt really good through 8, I looked at the heart rate monitor and it was 180. Uggh I backed way down and things went downhill from there. I ended up doing the 18 with an average of 9:15. I was practicng my GU intake every half hour and had water also. Just very disapointing. So moral of the story, I'm not as ready as I thought I was and for this marathon I'm going to run strictly to HR and not get it over 168 and whatever time comes, that's as good as I am. Vacation in Arizona next week!