Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Sirpoc has just run a 30:41 in a 10k race. Went through 5k in 15:05.

Is it just me, or does this all smell a bit off? Like continuing to just pb on this training? Supposedly 40+ years old? There's definitely stuff here we aren't being made aware of interest my opinion. 30:41 as a master just I don't believe the guy to be honest on the training schedule he says he does.

It's a conspiracy theory to make random strangers across the ocean slower than him, just in case they end up racing him one day.

Sirpocs training looks pretty hard to me. When he was running mid 17s he was doing 10 or more mpw at 6:00 or faster.

Anyway, there are a number of 40+ masters in my area of Manchester who can run 14:30 and 30 flat or a bit quicker.

Maybe I'm out of touch, but I remember a few years ago you could count on one hand most years the amount of guys who broke 15 and 31 in vets category. Anything sub 15 or mid 30 on the road is pretty much gonna get you on the podium , maybe take the win in BMAF road champs. But, I'm a few years out of touch with the scene I guess? But just to provide some context. I also expect he's running almost the least, out of just about anyone in this sub elite masters bracket.

Also, I just saw he split 5k-to the finish in 15:03. That is very, very impressive. The guy has earned it, congrats.

Secret speed sessions, brah. Once I got on the NSA method, Sirpoc sold me thousands of dollars worth of nipple cream. Told me I would need it because I would be so fast that my nipples would completely disintegrate. Rumor has it that he connects his Garmin to a remote control car and runs them on these courses to get the times he does to push his cream. Follow the money/nipple cream brah, you’re hot on the trail.

Love it

There's so many fast runners even in my small corner of the UK. Turning 40 doesn't seem to be a problem.

I knew I was missing something. All I got from following him on Strava are the same boring workouts every week at the same paces in the same places with the same hr. I always knew Sirpoopy's formula was 1) make incredibly dull strava content and 3) profit, but I could never figure out 2).

Agree, I’ve always thought that his method was a huge amount of high-ish intensity. Way harder than a standard 2 workout + long run plan. With his ability to sustain it, no wonder he can run so fast.

Just had a look at his Strava, consistently at 120km per week with 30-40km per week between 10k and M pace. That ain't easy week in week out! The most impressive thing is the consistency over 18 months.

This is impressive! And very slightly problematic for the Norwegian singles approach, since it means he hit a PR for 10K after modifying the program for marathon training by pushing the long run distance well past 80 minutes and adding a longer interval session (3 x 5K). Nothing exotic, but the rule continues to be true that if you run more, you get faster.

This is true, if I remember correctly he however mentioned on the group that he is increasingly fatigued and doesn't think his current marathon training is sustainable past the final weeks till the marathon. So seems we're back to periodization of sorts.

I agree to an extent. But one thing I hope that hasn't got lost, is this is just a way to structure your training for best bang for buck. If you can run more, you will likely get faster if you subscribe to "more is more" (until it's not). I don't seem to have hit that point yet, where the increase in load returns diminished gains. Yet, I've seen people his diminished gains, at a certain training load, in a much quicker time. Hard2find is one, for instance.

Indeed. I'm definitely more feeling the strain that I have been, but it's definitely manageable. I knew quite quickly this increase in load would be doable, but I wasn't going to like it. Would I be able to sustain this for the next 2 years, like I have done? Probably not. Who knows, I may well make a mess of the marathon and then be forced to keep going.

But my training load has increased to it's highest point ever, so that's something. I've always suspected a basic marathon training plan is actually probably the best "traditional" way to train, in the sense you see a lot of guys collect PBs on the way to a marathon, simply because they are doing more.

I'm at the point now where anymore time spent training, would be smarter to spread into doubles, at least some of the week. That won't be me though, I'll probably just carry on until I fall apart finally and then disappear back into being a non runner 😅

Once you are past that 8.5-9 hour range doubles are best and then in my opinion nobody needs me, my ideas or my opinion on any of that. Bakken, Jakob and his crew etc . (And others) have pretty much solved probably the best way for guys to train, who have pro level hours available.

The one thing I still stand by, all this time on - is that this is still "probably" the best way I could have possibly trained, given time constraints of 5+ hours a week (originally) up to around 8.5 hours. The real secret is the structure and recovery aspects compared to other systems though, is why I have managed to make it up to 8+ hours regular a week and build such a big base. It broke the boom and bust cycle and is balanced enough, whilst tetering on the edge that you can just keep stacking those training bricks.

My point in bringing this up is more of a precaution because the majority of people in this group most likely don't have lactate meters and there may be other people who could be overdoing it without knowing since they don't own a meter.

I've been in the Strava group since its formative days (back when it was 200 or so people strong) and haven't really seen this discussed which is why I brought it up. Again, I think highly of this method, but the exact paces may need to be modified for some people because it is very easy to go over threshold without realizing it. The best correlate I've found is that if the workout does not feel completely doable and/or slightly hard then the lactate is probably over threshold.

I've long forgone the suggested paces, I just hit the paces that I know generate the lactate I am looking for, so not sure what exactly is crazy about this.

Congrats on today. A 30:41 is nothing short of spectacular progress. I must say, it makes sense the upping of your paces lately. Did you know you were in this shape? It would make sense looking back 4-6 weeks of your paces now. Just curious.

Second person that has asked that today. You have to remember, I've spot lactate tested recently and also know what everything should look like. So workouts are still pretty much where they should be always, sub threshold. I haven't raced anything quick really since very early Jan, so no racing to provide much of a guide, other than two slow (ish) parkrun courses.

Yet the beauty of training like this, in time the workouts will pretty much tell you what race shape you are in, just through experience and repetition . It's actually the beauty of training like this - as you can pretty much guage how you will perform, which in turn makes pacing easier, which in turn means you will get close to maximum possible performance.

I felt confident I would PB today, thinking I could definitely go sub 31 and set off at that as goal pace, although this might have surprised me even a bit today. I certainly didn't see 30:41 coming, more like a very high 30.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but worth repeating for those who might be genuinely clueless -the dude was a very good cyclist in his younger years, a level probably equivalent around 14:00 5k/29:00 10k performance.

The training schedule isn't easy by any means, it's specifically designed to cram as much training load into a certain amount of time. Each workout is literally right at the line of what is possible to do in a single session while being able to do something similar in two days.

If a guy that ran 14:00/29:00 in college was now doing this type of training and running Sirpoc's times we'd be impressed that they're still hitting it hard in their 40's but wouldn't otherwise find it unbelievable.

Don't get me wrong it's always impressive to convert ability to another endurance discipline and impressive to run this fast in general, but given the context of great endurance genetics and extremely disciplined training theres nothing mysterious or fishy here.

Get out there and run!