50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Steve Lafler here, for the first time in maybe a year. Greetings to my fellow 50+ runners.

Looking at my first Half Marathon in 2 weeks, just after my 58th birthday.

Ran 38 miles last week including one 10+ miler, and one 5 Miler from 5500 to 6000 ft and back, with a 16 sec. PR for the course.

The upcoming Half is at 5000 ft. I'll go easy for an hour then give it what I've got.

Nice to stick a toe back in here and see some familiar names and some new ones. Good luck to all, especially those dealing with intense weather.

Have not looked in the thread for awhile. Had to work on electrical heart issues. What works? No alcohol, no sugar, no caffeine. Fer real! No irreg beat lately with all this clean living. OK, maybe a wee bit of herb.

Still managed a 10K last year 46:16, Healdsburg CA., Fitch Mountain run. An OK run for me with a big hill in the middle.

Some local guys teased me at about 2 miles, "Did you know about the mountain at mile 3?"

I did not mention I lived in the mountains of Oaxaca Mexico. I eased by at mile 4 and said, "Let me know when that mountain comes up".

Planned 1/2 marathon was canceled because of ice in Nashville. Everyone ran the 5k and I came away with a 19:18...out too fast 5:48,6:14,6:21 but fun and I look forward to better races this spring!

Nice 5k Steve. Keep it up.

I could report my week 5 of aerobic tank build… but I won't 'cause I'm pretty fired up to brag on my eldest son hitting the A standard for NAIA National Track Champs. He ran 1hr11min38sec for the Half Marathon down in Chico CA. Gulf Shores Alabama will be one tough Marathon in late May. He's hoping to spend the rest of outdoor track going for the A in the 10,000m.

KP

Coachkeithsh wrote:

Planned 1/2 marathon was canceled because of ice in Nashville. Everyone ran the 5k and I came away with a 19:18...out too fast 5:48,6:14,6:21 but fun and I look forward to better races this spring!

"Out-too-fast" is my middle name. But seriously, you held on pretty well there---nice job! Hope it's a springboard to even better racing days ahead!

Hey Steve L.! Glad to hear from you again! It's been a while. Glad that you are running well and that that you've worked your irreg. HB out.

Props to your boy, KP! I didn't realize that NAIA ran a marathon for their national T&F championships....shows what I know about the NAIA! Good luck to him!

Thanks, OGII. I wish it were true....the knee is back to it's usual, but the core is still messed up for good barring surgery, as has been well discussed. Hopefully, though, I can compensate without screwing the knee up; something I failed to do this past fall.

Cheers!

Yes, that half marathon time was okay, but I was disappointed that I didn't medal in my AG. In my previous age group (45-49), I was 4th twice, including once by 6 seconds. So I was hoping that I might have a better shot in my new age group. Well, I got slower, and missed a medal again. Anyway, just when I started thinking that I had to resume some speed training again, I encountered this article on competitor.com, which is adapted from a new book (Fast After 50).

http://running.competitor.com/2015/03/training/case-high-intensity-training-older-runners_124145

Here is my post-HM week.

M: rest.

T: 7 miles easy.

W: 4 miles easy.

R: 7 miles easy.

F: 4 miles easy / 7 miles easy.

SA: 7 miles easy.

SU: 16.7 miles.

The gym closed early on Wednesday due to snow, and I had to cut my run short. I spend Thursday morning for shoveling, and moved my planned double to Friday. Sunday's long run felt okay, with a "nice" weather of high 40s with overcast.

Rtype wrote:

Next Sat I’m racing a 5K. Actually, the course is notoriously long. A few years ago I helped time this race and it was almost comical to hear people swearing as they looked at the clock at the finish line. And, surprisingly, the course is officially “certified” by the USATF to be…..exactly……3.21 miles? WTF?

So it’s a 5.17K to be exact.

A few years ago, I did a USATF certified 10k race that was 10.16km according to my garmin. My PB was 43:08 at the time, and I was confident that I could run mid-42 based on my workouts. It was a flat course, the weather was nice, and I was clocking an even pace of 4:14-4:16/km. Then I heard the beep on my garmin, and it wasn't even close to the finish line. I ended up covering the last 160m in 32 sec. because I was racing with two people who beat me to the finish in sprint. My official time was 43:08 (!), but deep in my mind I think I actually ran a 42:36 10k, which would have been a big PB. Ever since, I have not been able to attempt a 10k PB on a flat, fast course. My PB is still stuck at 43:08 recorded on two different courses. (The first one is also a USATF certified course. It is hilly, but I think the measurement is accurate.)

55 for the wee, including icy hill reps on Tuesday (6X 2 min), very treacherous going back down hill, a few pick ups on Thursday, and then a long (7 mile) tempo with a 13 mile run on Saturday. Travel day Sunday to Tahoe-Donner area to see my kid ski race.

That competitor article made me laugh, because Friel thinks this is some kind of revelation. Unfortunately, for every clean runner who maintains intensity and sets age group records, there are 10 who try and get injured.

@lucKY2b - RE compensation, there is a good analogy with vacuum cleaners: I forget the comedian's name, but the joke goes "If you take a vacuum cleaner apart and put it back together again often enough, pretty soon you have two of them." Wouldn't you know, the vacuum cleaner still works despite that (first) left-over part, so it must not have been really needed after all. Same with the runner's body, except it stops being funny when too many parts go missing.

Had a decent 61 mile week...getting back on track.

Key workouts were..

Tues: 12 mile run. 7 miles easy then 14x1 min 5k pace, 30 sec easy then 7x30 sec @ mile pace, 30 sec easy. Did the 5 miles in about 31:00.

Thurs: 10 miles with 3 miles easy tempo @ 6:23/mi

Sat: My 5K race was messed up from the start when the lead biker took us completely the wrong way. I knew it was wrong but just thought they changed the course at the last minute. Ended up winning the 3.40 mile race in 19:20 going 5:28, 5:40, 5:52. Mile 2 was a pretty good mile as about 600 yards of it were very icy. Mile 3 also had a long stretch of frozen, icy, crappy footing. And the wind chill was about 20 deg. So it's hard to tell if ran well or not...

Weather has finally broken around here. Ran in shorts the past two days...might even see 60 this week. Just like that all the snow will be gone by the weekend.

Got my workout plan for the next few weeks. Just solid training leading up to my next race in Chicago March 29th.

Have a good week everyone,

Dave

Maybe there wasn't enough ice on the certified course?

My "5K" PR is 17:17, I was shooting for sub 21! We all missed a turn. There were zero course marshals on that one, everybody at the finish was looking at their Garmins in disbelief. One year in Columbus the lead bike took the lead half marathoner straight on the full course instead of turning for the finish. He lost a couple minutes and only came in second. I heard the RD did something with his prize to make it up though. If they made a movie of this stuff, all the runners would laugh, everybody else would think it was stupid, could never happen.

Mon. 1 hr paddling on the lake.

Tue. 31 km mtn bike ride.

Wed. 13 km run up and down Mt Alexander with 500 m of elevation gain. 1 h 30mins. Still having issues with hip and hamstring.

Thu. 1 h 15 m paddling on the lake.

Fri. 11.5 km mtn bike ride into work. 35 mins 13 km ride back to the car at 10.30 pm. 40 mins.

Sat. 20.5 km r mtn bike ride into work 59 mins. Easy 3.5 km jog.

Sun. 57 km mtn bike ride home from work 340 m of elevation gain.. 2 h 40 m.

Still limited by an issue with the hips and related hammy tightness so had a bit of a bike focus week.

I suppose that's right, Alan. Following this analogy, my vacuum still works, but I think it may have lost a little suction.

Hey, Dave! Nice W. I'm suitably impressed that you would race at all over this crap we've been having. It pains me to read 3 miles easy tempo @6:23/mi.....I vaguely remember that being "easyish". I suppose that since your Tuesday average time was even faster, 6:23 pace would be easy! Nice!

Running Formula Reader: Ed Whitlock trains long and slow (even he doesn't recommend his training for others), Norm Green ran fast all the time (I would break if I tried that), both have had success over very long periods of time, yet are on opposite ends of the training spectrum. Point is that you'll need to figure what works for you. Magill talks about training efficiency and maximizing the training effect for the effort expended. For most of us, that is a mixture of long easy runs and shorter hard efforts interspersed with recovery days.Clearly there are multiple solutions to the problem. Granted, the marathon requires a different mix than do shorter distances (even up to the HM).

And for some more inspiration:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02lmykh

Cheers!

I need a bit of advice. I am currently training for my first marathon in May but also plan on doing a half marathon series of 4 races throughout the year. The first HM of the series is this coming Saturday. Should I run it full out or simulate my marathon pace? I think I can cut 2 minutes off of my PR if I run it full out. I am the defending champion of the series, not because I was the fastest but because I did the full series and got maximum points, but a win is a win :-)

Paul061 wrote:

I need a bit of advice. I am currently training for my first marathon in May but also plan on doing a half marathon series of 4 races throughout the year. The first HM of the series is this coming Saturday. Should I run it full out or simulate my marathon pace? I think I can cut 2 minutes off of my PR if I run it full out. I am the defending champion of the series, not because I was the fastest but because I did the full series and got maximum points, but a win is a win :-)

This depends on how well you recover from your races. I am generally slow in recovery, and it takes me about a week after a half marathon to get back to my "normal" training. Yet I have raced a half 5-6 weeks before a marathon every spring since 2011.

The first time I did it, I was planning to race "conservatively." So I stayed behind the 3:15 marathon pace team. But I found the pace easy, so after a few miles, I started chasing the 3:10 pace team ahead. After 6-7 miles, that started feel easy, so I left the pace team behind, and started chasing the runners in front of me. I ended up running 1:33:47 after the 10k split of 44.51. The marathon six weeks later (Boston) didn't go well, but not because of any effect of my half. (My flight to Boston was cancelled due to weather, and I had to take a bus trip from NY to Boston, arriving after 2am. And I had to eat the junk that the airline company bought for us on that bus trip.)

The next year, I ran PBs both in half and marathon five weeks apart. I ran another marathon PB last year five weeks after an all-out effort in half. I sometimes wonder if I could run better in my April marathon by skipping a half race in March. I have to take one week of tapering for the race, and one week of recovery. But so far, it seems to be working. In 4 1/2 weeks, I will find if it still works in my 50s.

So to get back to your point, think about how well you recovered from your last half, and decide how much that affects your training. I personally find the psychological boost of running well in a race beneficial. But that's just me.

lucKY2b wrote:

And for some more inspiration:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02lmykh

Cheers!

This is indeed inspiring. I hope I can walk on my own at 95, if I live that long.

I did a half at marathon pace and didn't learn anything, so I wouldn't recommend that to anybody. If you race it, you can plug your time into a calculator and get a realistic fitness out. If you hold back, it's just subjective. Plus, you indicated your May marathon is just for practice and the October one is for real. So why not practice racing the half before? Then in the fall you will know better what to do in the rest of the half series, before your true goal race. Even if you mess up your May marathon, you learned a lot.

I will write up the Master Mind game theory this weekend.

Greetings from the slow old guy. 1:40:12 in todays HM, into a 10-15 mph swirling wind the whole way(although it never seemed to come from behind) and I have a chest cold coming on. I ran as good as I could have. Heartrate was a bit high towards the end but I was trying to push it.

Mile time Heartrate

1 7:30 160 down then flat

2 7:53 171 up hill

3 7:53 175 up hill

4 7:33 179 down then flat

5 7:30 181 flat

6 7:34 180 flat

7 8:09 182 up hill

8 7:48 183 up hill

9 7:08 182 down

10 7:05 185 down

11 7:37 186 flat

12 7:48 183 up

13 7:43 185 up

I need more aerobic training :-)

First time posting here as I just became eligible thursday. Did a low key HM today in 1:30:04 (yeah, I could've been under 130 if there was a clock or if I hadnt forgotten my watch for only the second time in 35 years of racing). Plan was to just run MP (Boston) of around 1:33 and get 20 miles in with no taper this week. Went a little faster because there was a small group clicking off low 650s and could work together against some long windy stretches. From what I can tell, kept it pretty even the whole way. Had planed to get 5-6 in before the race but got there late, had to register, blah, blah, blah. 2.5 warmup and 5 afterwards. Pretty happy with it coming back from some AT issues that caused me to miss 10 days in February. The test will be how I feel in the AM.

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Week 197

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Greetings 50+ers! Great to finally have a warmer week around here and to actually get out for a run where I sweat a little bit. Despite having a very heavy work schedule, I forced myself to get a little bit in every day, and ended the week with 33+ miles! It's the most since October. Log reads as such:

Sun: 5.3 w/1.5mi@6:35 avg (7:15 avg)

Mon: 2 easy (w/backpack)

Tue: 5.0 w/2mi@6:28 avg (7:14 overall avg pace)

Wed: 3 easy (w/heavy backpack)

Thur: 5.2 Fartlek (7:16 avg)

Fri: 5.0 easy (treadmill, 1.5% 8:00/mi pace)

Sat: 8.2 moderate, w/ some steady hardish, w/3@6:50 avg pace (7:18 overall avg)

Not really doing any full workouts per se', but tried to build in a little bit of "speed" every other day, with easy days in between. Legs are feeling pretty good, and the right hip stiffness was best it's been for the 8-miler on Saturday. Normally, I'd be tightening up pretty good by the end, but that wasn't the case this week....so progress!

The Fartlek was 5 pickups ranging from .25 to about .4 miles at speeds around a 5:30-40 pace (according to the Garmin).

Didn't make it back to the stairs this week again; that's two weeks in a row, so I better get some in this week. Weight is still hovering in the low 170's.....need to cut out desserts completely for the next month....it'll be tough (how does one say no to key lime pie?)

Nice race, Paul061! You kept it at a pretty steady pace the whole way!

Welcome beard scratcher! Nice HM, too. How has your training been leading up to this race? What are your plans/goals?

That's about all I've got this week. haven't really done too much research this week on what's going on. I just know that there is the Indoor Masters Nationals this coming weekend in Winston-Salem. Good luck to all you masters track stars head down to NC.

Oh, and Go Badgers! Go Wildcats! Both are playing awesome B-ball!

All the Best!