Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

...west of the El Capitan and therefore after the El Capitan on the course?

This series was taken in front of Madame Toussaud’s Wax Museum on Hollywood Boulevard. Significantly, this location is less than a block away from the El Capitan Theatre in the second sheet above. it is before the El Capitan on the course.

If I recall correctly from earlier in this thread, those pics were taken after Frank re-enters the course in front of Hooters on Hollywood Blvd.

Smb wrote:

His best time up the mountain (13.3 miles) is 3:03 in 1988, which I would estimate to be equivalent to a 2:58 marathon on the flats. Impressive for a 39 year old doctor, but not world class. His slower times over the years show somebody who is very healthy but aging normally. In 2013 his time up the mountain was 3:53, which is hard to mesh with somebody supposedly knocking out 3:00 flat marathons in 2014.

Where you go awry is assuming any of those times are best effort. He is not a professional runner. He is running for fun. He has already admit he takes stops to rest. The 3:53 run he could have almost taken a nap. Maybe he did. None of us were there so nobody knows what effort he gave. Maybe he ran with a fat, slow friend.

What you did show is that he was entirely capable at some point of running _at least_ 2:58.

Cheese : "I think all of you are disingenuous to never assume that Frank has been doping."

It is interesting that I haven't seen anybody mention that possibility. Certainly as a doctor he'd have plenty of opportunities. Perhaps when the juice wasn't enough anymore, he finally had to switch to course-cutting. (Derek and the other web pros on this thread have conclusively proven to me over and over that FM didn't run the full courses the past few years.

Took me a while wrote:

What you did show is that he was entirely capable at some point of running _at least_ 2:58.

Yes. Yes I did. 31 years ago.

Stop the trolling, since you clearly don't believe Frank either.

...who would have thought that going all out, stopping for extended periods of time, then running really slow would be the magic formula for a world record time by a fun runner? Lol.

Smb wrote:

(Derek and the other web pros on this thread have conclusively proven to me over and over that FM didn't run the full courses the past few years.

Then you aren't paying attention. Even in this very page there are anomalies in this finisherpix reporting. Chip times not being right. The wrong group of runners being photographed. Location of cameras being wrong. Photos that prove Frank was running on the course when it was previously reported that he entered from seemingly nowhere... The whole thing is a sham.

True. Mostly it’s to satisfy my curiosity. But it would also show that it’s doable without accomplices.

A race like LA only would need to throw in 2 random timing mats right between a couple official mats to catch this type of cheating. Frank hits the known timing mats, but I’d guarantee he’d miss any surprise mats (Long Beach for example).

Smb wrote:

Took me a while wrote:

What you did show is that he was entirely capable at some point of running _at least_ 2:58.

Yes. Yes I did. 31 years ago.

Stop the trolling, since you clearly don't believe Frank either.

31 years ago when another poster said Frank was running a 2:20 or better..... Not even Frank is disputing that he slowed down with age. His 2:58 could be a fun run, not max effort, when he could have kicked out a 2:15. 2:15 to 2:54 seems within the realm of possibility to me.

.?. wrote:

deadesq wrote:

I'm really more concerned about the kids at Loyola and the example this sets for them. If THEY believe he cheated, he has a strong obligation to lace up his shoes and show them, not us, that he can do what he claims to have done. If he can't, he has an obligation to them to tell them the truth.

"Meza Addresses The Loyola Track Team

Frank denied that he cut any courses..."

Track Team Member:

But sir, why have you been DQ'd from the California International Marathon and banned for life?

Head Coach Diaz:

OK kids, I think we might wrap it up there. Mr Bland, please take the boys for their warm-up.

Head Coach Diaz:

Oh, and Mr Bland, the full warm-up, not the one Dr Meza used to take them on.

This thread seems to have turned into a lynch mob sheepishly believing everything Derek posts which relies a lot on circumstantial evidence and the absence of evidence. His allegations are based on a lack of photos from a handful of marathon photographers who usually aim their cameras in one direction and at groups of runners and people who smile and pose for the camera and who are more likely to later purchase the expensive photos. They simply can’t capture every runner.

Inexplicably, Derek’s investigation has not found one single photograph from a spectator or news source to support his allegations. Derek also fails to explain how Frank Meza actually completed this race. He also ignores the data that indicates Frank Meza previously ran fast marathons and half marathons even if these races occurred many years ago. See his finish times for Pikes Peak Ascent. Explain how someone could cheat on that course?

Sure the circumstantial evidence all by itself is against Frank Meza but to get a DQ you likely need more than just circumstantial evidence and a lack of photos or questionable split times.

Perhaps the LA Marathon has not made a DQ decision because Frank Meza hit all the timing mats and shows up on all the timing mat photos, so no one else is carrying his bib. Also

1. There is no admission from Frank Meza

2. There are no photos of him getting in or out of a vehicle or bus or train during the race.

3. Frank Meza has fast times in previous marathons and half marathons.

Hi Took Me A While!

Took me a while wrote:

For the record . . . wrote:

Frank was 'convicted' of cheating at CIM by USATF officials. Not by Let's Run. Not by MI.

They found a timing anomaly, Frank runs for fun and says to DQ if they suspect anything suspicious. They do. He runs it again, they're already waiting with baited breath to locate any sort of anomaly to find him 'cheating' again (much like this thread). They DQ him again. He runs for fun. He again doesn't dispute it because he doesnt care about CIM (much like everyone). Again, who cares?

The 2nd place guy cares.

Thanks for posting this. I have absolutely every confidence that Derek Murphy is using this platform to make money. If Frank cheated, he should get a chance to run with an observer. If he does have a heart condition or at this point a urinary condition, well then, he could obviously prove that too if he needed too. If LA Marathon disqualifies his time, they need to disqualify every runner that came before him that did not hit all their mats... at least 20 people (Probably more, but I honestly have a real job and can't devote too much time to chasing people down) who finished ahead of Frank did not hit their mats and no one is threatening to disqualify them.

This is a witch hunt and Derek Murphy is a master at gaming the system and garnering donations for his website. Derek, how much have you made off of this story? Please disclose this, it would only seem fair.

I see what you did there wrote:

Hi Took Me A While!

Not me. Ask rojo. But I'm glad that others are finally starting to see this farce for what it is.

To be honest, when I started trolling tonight I was in the anti-Frank camp. I'm also a huge MI fan. I read it religiously. When I finished tonight, I am of the mind that it is more likely than not that LRC and MI investigators are just wrong about everything. The easiest explanation is that he's a fast runner and does unexpected things because he runs for fun and never anticipated this thread.

He would not need to be on video running 6:30/mile if he were cheating. That is faster than the pace he actually finished. He would not be captured running marathons twice with friends if he wasn't running for fun. He could not cheat at PP. He has GREAT character witnesses. A lot of finisherpix "evidence" is wrong or can be ignored.

Goodnight and I hope Frank receives an apology from everyone.

Took me a while wrote:

Smb wrote:

(Derek and the other web pros on this thread have conclusively proven to me over and over that FM didn't run the full courses the past few years.

Then you aren't paying attention. Even in this very page there are anomalies in this finisherpix reporting. Chip times not being right. The wrong group of runners being photographed. Location of cameras being wrong. Photos that prove Frank was running on the course when it was previously reported that he entered from seemingly nowhere... The whole thing is a sham.

Hi Mark B. I know you. You like to stir the pot for your entertainment.

This story is so confusing. On one hand, it seems like there's evidence that Frank is a cheater, but on the other hand, I don't understand why he wasn't mandated to run with an observer before? If the cheating was so prevalent and happened in the past, why didn't race officials insist that he run with an observer? That's a lot of races to cheat in!! I read that he completed over 100 races in his life. And it would require a lot of planning to do so in over 100 races! It boggles my mind how he would be able to pull anything like this off while having a job, coaching and just living his life. If he did cheat in every race that he did well in then, the man deserves a medal. That seems like a lot of work! Go Frank!

Took me a while wrote:

Not a very good PR firm wrote:

Big money was paid to the PR firm to try and spin this story away from Frank. This is the best you guys can do?

The only reason I am responding to you is that I think it's important to set the record straight.

Lotsa Racist Companions has ruined the reputation of a good Latino doctor.

I would like just one thing to come out of this. I think that phoney investigator owes Frank an apology. He needs to come out and admit that 1) he is racist 2) to never engage in any more targeted harassment (yes, it's a hate crime -- look it up) of the Latino community and 3) he will donate any revenue from his site to Atzlan which will only BEGIN to pay reparations for this injustice.

3) I don’t think he makes any money off this.

Took me a while wrote:

Another anonymous troll calling Frank out on Let's Racist Collaborate but not using their real name. If you were connected to the local community then I must know you so why are you afraid of a little publicity?

Pot meet kettle.

What evidence would convince you that Frank cheated ?

Smb wrote:

bored troller wrote:

Just for the record, cutting the course at Pike's Peak would be impossible. It's up a mountain, no opportunities for cutting.

Agree that I can't think of any way to cheat on Pikes Peak.

There have been quite a number of cases involving course-cutting on Pikes Peak, largely by cutting out switchbacks. In 2012, an appeals committee was formed to deal with such cases, and the number of course marshals was increased.

Although Frank Meza's times on Pikes Peak were unspectacular, his history obviously gives pause.