Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

....wasn't Frank ahead of 40874 at 10K?

10K

FM: 7:36:07 a.m.

40874: 7:36:48 a.m.

Doing the math... wrote:

....wasn't Frank ahead of 40874 at 10K?

10K

FM: 7:36:07 a.m.

40874: 7:36:48 a.m.

Damn red wine. Yes. Like I said. Math is hard. Still....he should have been on camera near the Walt Disney.

I appreciate your level of thoroughness, deadesq. But I'm sure you can concede this is not definitive proof. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (Write that down it's a good one.)

These photos imply they were consistent and that photos were not omitted or modified in the intervening period since the race. For all I know some conspirator at the image site scrubbed Frank to support this agenda. It's about as likely (if not more) than respected running coaches, a reputable school, an Assistant District Attorney all covering for Frank.

We are now debating _how_ an amateur runner runs an amateur race that they paid an entry fee to. How ridiculous is that? Next amateur race you run, you better not stop or take your eyes off the finish line or MI will be coming after you!

Rojo offered to run the race. Let's do that challenge instead. Run the race, hit all the timing mats, run consistent splits, and disappear from cameras (but show up on some, I guess), if you're on video (because somehow Frank seems to know where he's on video) then definitely run what some posters here estimated was a 6:35 pace, and never get caught riding a bike or boarding a bus or any obvious cheating mechanism. Do that, and I'll concede that Frank's cheating is plausible.

Took me a while wrote:

First, you might not be aware of this but Frank is deathly allergic to eggs. .

Clearly, he is even more allergic to THE TRUTH.

...supports Frank's claim that he went off course looking for a restroom. Hollywood and Highland is the intersection before Hollywood and Orange, where Meza was pictured re-entering the course in front of Hooters. This would explain why Meza is not seen running on the course in the video that Doubler assembled of the sequential pics. You just located Frank running on the course less than a block away from where he was pictured re-entering. This obviously takes the wind out of the sails out of the original re-entry on Hollywood Blvd evidence.

Oh well. You still have Frank speeding past 40874 only to stop and wait at Santa Monica and Doheny for at least 30 seconds for 40874 to catch up and then re-enter even with 40874, only to lose 9 seconds to 40874 in less than a 10th of a mile by the 25K mat at Doheny and Dorrington.

Your evidence actually... wrote:

...supports Frank's claim that he went off course looking for a restroom. Hollywood and Highland is the intersection before Hollywood and Orange, where Meza was pictured re-entering the course in front of Hooters. This would explain why Meza is not seen running on the course in the video that Doubler assembled of the sequential pics. You just located Frank running on the course less than a block away from where he was pictured re-entering. This obviously takes the wind out of the sails out of the original re-entry on Hollywood Blvd evidence.

Oh well. You still have Frank speeding past 40874 only to stop and wait at Santa Monica and Doheny for at least 30 seconds for 40874 to catch up and then re-enter even with 40874, only to lose 9 seconds to 40874 in less than a 10th of a mile by the 25K mat at Doheny and Dorrington.

... And that he slowed down, or stopped, or stretched, as an amateur runner in a race he had repeatedly said he is running for fun.... Who cares?

this troll just keeps reeling in the suckers.

it's obviously an LRC regular having a little fun at your expense.

he comes across as authentic as Franks race times but some of you guys just can't help yourselves....so well played I guess.

Go back and read the first line of my post jackars:

"These race-baiting posts seem more the invention of a right-wing fanatic posing as a Latino-Friend-of-Frank. "

But nice try diverting.

Frank was 'convicted' of cheating at CIM by USATF officials. Not by Let's Run. Not by MI.

We talked about this a bit last night. I have also said I’d like to replicate this, and maybe I will try, and just remove my chip before the finish.

He didn’t have to run 1.6 miles. Look at the course map between miles 11 and 12. I had wondered why he didn’t emerge closer to that mat. But he could have parked at mile 12, cutting the total distance he needed to cover to 0.8 miles if he did this solo.

For the record . . . wrote:

Frank was 'convicted' of cheating at CIM by USATF officials. Not by Let's Run. Not by MI.

They found a timing anomaly, Frank runs for fun and says to DQ if they suspect anything suspicious. They do. He runs it again, they're already waiting with baited breath to locate any sort of anomaly to find him 'cheating' again (much like this thread). They DQ him again. He runs for fun. He again doesn't dispute it because he doesnt care about CIM (much like everyone). Again, who cares?

you've already done a good job conclusively proving that he cheated but is that really necessary? even if you're successful it doesnt mean he did it that way. the only way we found out the how is if Frank comes clean.

personally I don't care about the how. there is ample evidence to prove he cheated without it. the relevant people simply need to act on the available evidence...that's what's important to me.

some Latino dude wrote:

this troll just keeps reeling in the suckers.

it's obviously an LRC regular having a little fun at your expense.

he comes across as authentic as Franks race times but some of you guys just can't help yourselves....so well played I guess.

Thank you. Probably the most sensible post I've read in about 7 pages. My phone's about to die though so I might need to resume this tomorrow.

If you were going to */10 me, what do you think I'd score?

Cheezwiz Krisp you morans are triggered so easily. Go take a shower and get the sand out of your pussies. This thread is done and over. Frankie is a cheater but no one who is important cares. The newspaper repeats exist only because of consolidation. That means three more people might be offended while 20,000 other laugh because all of the elites in this sport are juiced to the gills.

Seriously. Running has become a sport where the only headlines are about cheating because 99% of the "elite" athletes are doping. A geezer cheating is just humor. It is funny as sh!t and no one important cares about it.

The hobby joggers cheat to get into Boston because it's a challenge. World Records are meaningless unless you have drugged and non-drugged assisted groups. I think all of you are disingenuous to never assume that Frank has been doping. When I first heard about this I figured he was just following the lead of the Elites. That's the easiest resolution of this puzzle.

Haha yes, trolling here is almost as easy as with the Rossi weirdos.

Took me awhile is a troll, most likely someone impersonating a Latino.

Took me a while wrote:

I appreciate your level of thoroughness, deadesq. But I'm sure you can concede this is not definitive proof. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (Write that down it's a good one.)

These photos imply they were consistent and that photos were not omitted or modified in the intervening period since the race. For all I know some conspirator at the image site scrubbed Frank to support this agenda. It's about as likely (if not more) than respected running coaches, a reputable school, an Assistant District Attorney all covering for Frank.

Thanks, TMAW. In a criminal case, the burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt." In a civil case, the burden is a "preponderance of the evidence", or "more likely than not."

This is not a criminal trial. I have no desire to see Frank prosecuted. Is your theory of the image site scrubbing photos of Frank a "reasonable" doubt? What motivation would FinisherPix have to do that? The standard in a criminal case is not "beyond ALL doubt." It's beyond REASONABLE doubt. I would assert that a claim that FinisherPix removed a few photos of Frank to further some unknown agenda is UNREASONABLE doubt.

I'm happy to show you the methods I used to pull each and every photo from the LAM 2019 on those photos sheets so you can see nothing was omitted. I acknowledge removing the half-marathoners from the Phoenix marathon post I did earlier, but the Long Beach Marathon posts I did before that are all consecutive photos.

So, I throw it back to you. While proof can never really be "definitive" without an admission of guilt by the charged party or a persistent video (which does exist here), would you concede that, based on the evidence presented in this thread demonstrates that it is "more likely than not" that Frank cheated? Do you think the administrators at Loyola High School used "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "more likely than not" when they removed any mention of Frank from the school's website as part of their coaching staff?

Or, do you truly believe that, whether beyond a reasonable doubt or more likely than not, Frank Meza ran a 2:53:10 at the Los Angeles Marathon? If so, provide YOUR definitive and irrefutable proof. If you can, quod erat demonstrandum.

I have no dog in this fight, other than my respect for Ed Whitlock and preserving his legacy and his accomplishments. He's one big reason I still lace up the shoes and try to put the hurt to people half my age in every race. But I can damn well tell you, beyond a reasonable doubt, that in any race I've run, I've run the whole course.

If you're a friend of Frank's, please tell him to get help. I mean him no ill will, and I hope he fades quietly into the woodwork after this whole affair. I'm really more concerned about the kids at Loyola and the example this sets for them. If THEY believe he cheated, he has a strong obligation to lace up his shoes and show them, not us, that he can do what he claims to have done. If he can't, he has an obligation to them to tell them the truth.

I couldn't really care less, other than the Ed Whitlock thing.

My best to you.

...was 90 seconds per mile slower than 40874 in the .1 miles from Doheny and Santa Monica (where Frank re entered the race even with 40874) to Doheny and Dorrington. Yet prior to that point Frank overcame a 31 second deficit at the 20K mat to speed past 40874 (who was running what a 6.36 pace?) and then stop and wait for at least 30 seconds at santa Monica and doheny for 40874 to catch up. Just a fun runner taking a break I guess lol.

Frank's pace... wrote:

...was 90 seconds per mile slower than 40874 in the .1 miles from Doheny and Santa Monica (where Frank re entered the race even with 40874) to Doheny and Dorrington. Yet prior to that point Frank overcame a 31 second deficit at the 20K mat to speed past 40874 (who was running what a 6.36 pace?) and then stop and wait for at least 30 seconds at santa Monica and doheny for 40874 to catch up. Just a fun runner taking a break I guess lol.

You're typing but you're not proving anything, just contributing to the witch-hunt. He has the right to take a break. He's 70. How much experience do you have running a marathon at 70? Your body is different, you need a different strategy.

He said he was running for fun. One would expect him to take breaks. He came back after he finishes and runs, again, for fun with other people he knows. Nobody has been able to explain that. Why? Because it didn't make sense other than he doesn't give a damn about time or timing mats or bib position.

One parent even came on here earlier and said something to the effect of Frank really being able to turn it on and kick in the hills. Which explains his stop and go times if he's going all out and then pausing to rest. He is on video at least once running what looked like a 6:30 pace. In a marathon. What more do you want?

deadesq wrote:

I'm really more concerned about the kids at Loyola and the example this sets for them. If THEY believe he cheated, he has a strong obligation to lace up his shoes and show them, not us, that he can do what he claims to have done. If he can't, he has an obligation to them to tell them the truth.

"Meza Addresses The Loyola Track Team

Frank denied that he cut any courses..."

Track Team Member:

But sir, why have you been DQ'd from the California International Marathon and banned for life?

Head Coach Diaz:

OK kids, I think we might wrap it up there. Mr Bland, please take the boys for their warm-up.