Official LRC President Joseph R Biden Thread

nah Tesla still gets hundreds of millions from government aid.

IN the most recent quarter Tesla made $518 million by selling rights to pollute to other companies. That's pure government subsidy to Tesla.

Tesla also made $110 million in the quarter trading Bitcoin.

Add those two items together and you learn that Tesla made zero dollars making and selling cars. All their profit was from

1) government programs

2) trading one of the very dirtiest of assets: Bitcoin.

I'm not condemning Tesla or the gummint...I think government must take an active role in fostering green companies. I do think we have to admit that is what is happening though.

I do condemn tesla for its filthy Bitcoin trades though. That's counter to its supposedly green mission.

WSJ:

Tesla didn’t exactly earn its record profit from selling cars, however. The company said that it sold some of the $1.5 billion worth of bitcoin that it purchased in February, contributing $101 million to the bottom line. That is nearly a fourth of its total profit.

What is more, sales of regulatory credits to other auto makers to help them meet emissions mandates, which carry a 100% profit margin, reached $518 million. That accounts for nearly 100% of Tesla’s $533 million in pretax income. Those two helping hands helped avert red ink.

So you don’t believe a study because YOU can’t access the full piece. But you will believe a graph posted in marketing materials by ark that has zero research behind it and was only meant to convince people to invest. Lol

EVs are really inconvenient for most people. You’re an idiot for not realizing what everyone else already understands.

You won’t respond to me because I COMPLETELY eviscerated you on another thread on this topic. Run away with you tail between your legs coward. Lol

you lose credibility when you refuse to acknowledge that many tens of millions of people do not have a garage and do not have any access to charging other than public charging stations. Which makes having an EV completely impractical.

I really like the growing market share of EVs and would to see it become the majority of new car sales sooner rather than later.

But when you call people idiots for not getting one, you make even me not want to not buy one.

Good job with that.

Trollminator wrote:

Btw I have no doubt they would have booed John McCain and Dwight Einsenhower if they were still alive.. hell, at this point they might even boo Raegan.

You mean, Amnesty Ron? He must be their Public Enemy #1.

Reagan was also a staunch supporter of free trade and Western alliance.

Not any more. Tesla paid back its government loans a long time ago. All other EV makers besides Tesla and GM still qualify for a $7500 tax credit per purchaser. But Tesla still outsells them all by a huge margin.

We were talking about the US, and none of that came from the US federal government. Almost all of it was from foreign governments. Tesla gets zero dollars in US federal aid.

But there is nothing wrong with it in those other countries. The other auto makers have to pay big bucks to cover the cost of their pollution. So now that money goes to companies building (and selling) zero emission cars. That's how it should be. If you pollute, you pay. If you don't, you get the benefits.

Wrong. For autos, Tesla's gross margin subtracting tax credits was still 22%. That's better than almost all other auto makers.

If you want to play games with their numbers. I can do that too. For instance, Tesla had a stock-based compensation expense of $614 million. Most of that went to Elon Musk, which was paid out in that particular quarter because they hit so many of his milestones. Those are non-recurring expenses, just like the Bitcoin sale is non-recurring revenue.

I'm also not happy about their use of Bitcoin, but if you are going to try to use it to say Tesla actually loses money, then you are dead wrong.

WSJ is cherry-picking just like you did. If you are going to start talking about non-recurring revenue you also have to talk about non-recurring expenses.

The bottom line is that GAPP net income was $438 millon for Q1. non-GAAP net income was $1,052 million.

Tesla has turned into a money machine because people love their cars.

I've acknowledged that several times. I'm only saying, it's easy and inexpensive to get charging stations installed. Yes, it's a problem. But it's an easy problem to solve.

If we get Biden's 500,000 new public charging stations, the problem gets even easier.

And you don't need a garage. Any place on the grid is a good place to put a charger.

L L wrote:

I really like the growing market share of EVs and would to see it become the majority of new car sales sooner rather than later.

But when you call people idiots for not getting one, you make even me not want to not buy one.

Good job with that.

I'm not saying you should buy one today. I'm saying if you are in the market for a new car, you should almost certainly get an EV. (And I'm not talking about buying used cars. Idiocy only applies to those who buy new gas cars)

Fat hurts wrote:

L L wrote:

I really like the growing market share of EVs and would to see it become the majority of new car sales sooner rather than later.

But when you call people idiots for not getting one, you make even me not want to not buy one.

Good job with that.

I'm not saying you should buy one today. I'm saying if you are in the market for a new car, you should almost certainly get an EV. (And I'm not talking about buying used cars. Idiocy only applies to those who buy new gas cars)

And lets' just put it all together to address agip's concern that "tens of millions of people do not have a garage and do not have any access to charging other than public charging stations".

Again, I've said that if you buy a new gas car you are an idiot.

Almost all those "tens of millions" are people who buy used cars.

Most of those renters wealthy enough to buy new cars could get a charger installed where they live or just move.

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

you lose credibility when you refuse to acknowledge that many tens of millions of people do not have a garage and do not have any access to charging other than public charging stations. Which makes having an EV completely impractical.

I've acknowledged that several times. I'm only saying, it's easy and inexpensive to get charging stations installed. Yes, it's a problem. But it's an easy problem to solve.

If we get Biden's 500,000 new public charging stations, the problem gets even easier.

And you don't need a garage. Any place on the grid is a good place to put a charger.

a charger out on the street of a city?

How exactly does that work?

Look Fats, you very much want something to be true. But it isn't true.

Tens of millions of Americans simply cannot have EVs and your insistence that they move or buy a used car instead...just harms the cause. Just agree that EVs aren't for everyone, and you aren't an idiot if you make money, you live Boston or NYC, you want a new car but you park your car on the street. And you don't want to move.

It's not hard.

Yes. A charger out on the street of a city. There are thousands of them. Maybe hundreds of thousands. I've seen them on pedestals and I've seen them built into lamp posts.

This one is in a downtown area. I've used it many times (not my car, btw):

Like I said, anywhere there is electricity is a place you can put a charger.

Apparently, people not using the public chargers that currently exist is one of the issues.

He's an EV-fan boy. He's not going to be swayed no matter how many studies come out describing the barriers to widespread EV usage and no matter what anyone says. At least (I think) he has given up the solution of apartment building residents just running a cord from their apartment out to the street.

Fixing the charging issue will require more participation from automakers, who have yet to find a profitable way of producing electric cars. Even Tesla, easily the leader in the category, was only able to eke out a first-quarter profit by selling energy credits and bitcoin.

Marietta Tar Heel wrote:

Fixing the charging issue will require more participation from automakers.

Refueling stations being scarce was not an issue for automakers when gasoline cars were first sold. The first drive-in filling station was in the world opened in 1913 in Pittsburg. Gasoline was first sold in pharmacies. The first 24-hour gas station opened in 1986. In each case, automakers were not involved.

“Tesla has turned into a money machine because people love their cars.”

😂

As I have pointed out, Tesla makes a 22% profit on every car it sells. And that's after you remove regulatory credits from the equation. That 22% is better than almost all other auto makers.

The main barrier to EV adoption is availability of EV's. They just can't make them fast enough to keep up with demand.

Marietta Tar Heel wrote:

At least (I think) he has given up the solution of apartment building residents just running a cord from their apartment out to the street.

Yes, I was joking when I said that. It was a humorous exchange.

However, in the real world I have seen it done as a temporary solution after moving into a small house. They ran a cord out from the kitchen window. It just goes to show how easy it is to charge your car. Anyplace that has electricity will do in a pinch.

noticer of sally names wrote:

Marietta Tar Heel wrote:

Fixing the charging issue will require more participation from automakers.

Refueling stations being scarce was not an issue for automakers when gasoline cars were first sold. The first drive-in filling station was in the world opened in 1913 in Pittsburg. Gasoline was first sold in pharmacies. The first 24-hour gas station opened in 1986. In each case, automakers were not involved.

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/product_images/uploaded_images/2016/11/Gaspump-timeline.jpg

The best solution to the charging issue is for government to get involved. That's what has driven adoption to 85% in Norway.

Fat hurts wrote:

Marietta Tar Heel wrote:

At least (I think) he has given up the solution of apartment building residents just running a cord from their apartment out to the street.

Yes, I was joking when I said that. It was a humorous exchange.

However, in the real world I have seen it done as a temporary solution after moving into a small house. They ran a cord out from the kitchen window. It just goes to show how easy it is to charge your car. Anyplace that has electricity will do in a pinch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwAq0zyBdBc

And after 12 hours. Voila. You get 36 miles of charge. lol

Fat hurts wrote:

The best solution to the charging issue is for government to get involved. That's what has driven adoption to 85% in Norway.

I thought there was no charging issue. After all you can put a charging station anywhere with electricity, and a quick search tells me there are an equal number of EV charging stations and gas stations near me.