Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Just and aside. wrote:

The Doctor who co-wrote the book Younger Next Year, and if I remember properly, specifically stated in the book that no men need to die of prostrate cancer, died young of prostrate cancer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/books/henry-lodge-dead-co-author-younger-next-year.html

Do you get prostrate cancer from too much sprawling face down on the ground?

Surprised, surprised! wrote:

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2019/06/meza-addresses-team-coaches-as-disqualification-looms.html?fbclid=IwAR3Dln-y_AV6dpGYV9H3DhkoVB6zuUepLCF1b1kQEmn7qNEbKKfk2XywBII

"He told coaches that he was diagnosed with a heart condition and that his running days may be over."

Well, we knew this was coming. They should DQ all of his previous marathons.

If someone can run a 2:20 marathon, there is bound to be a record of it.

unreal.

He's pathological. This is extraordinary . There's a lie or cover up story for everything.

He's been breaking world records, in the best cardio shape of any man's life as of 3 months ago (snark) and suddenly and conveniently he's got heart disease? For the record, any 70 yer old man will have some or a lot calcification in the arteries SO, OK, maybe now he'll find a friendly cardiologist to tell him (write him a note) that endurance sports are out of the question. Just another con or half con. Yes, he did this intentionally NOW because if you dare suggest otherwise (like there's no heart disease) then YOU become the bad one. And let's just play the other side: Let's assume he really has heart disease or any arterial respiratory condition, then he never would have been able to run 2:53 three months ago at the LA Marathon. Never. Yes, a few short jogs/quick sprints between timing mats is doable with a heart condition NOT 2:53. Sorry, doc. Just like Trump your half ass lies or cons always have a hole in them. Like I said, the "good" doc will get a Dr.'s note to show exactly what I wrote above in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 and send that to the LA Times.

But worse, He tells the Loyala kids it isn't true and he'll show the world at chicago that he's the true speed demon they all know and love and then 5 minutes later he tells the coaches it's not true: He's not running. He's got a heart condition. What is wrong with him?! Playing with people's emotions like that.

Anyway, Doc: More evidence will come out. this isn't going away. DQ's or no DQ's.

PS. Memo to 70 year old who are endurance athletes and healthy: Keep running and racing; you'll live longer and be happier.

Genuflection wrote:

Just and aside. wrote:

The Doctor who co-wrote the book Younger Next Year, and if I remember properly, specifically stated in the book that no men need to die of prostrate cancer, died young of prostrate cancer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/books/henry-lodge-dead-co-author-younger-next-year.html

Do you get prostrate cancer from too much sprawling face down on the ground?

Man, I hope not. Just got to Yorba Regional Park, gonna run the trails here, feelin’ good...my primary goal is to not go splat...

Donor Doc wrote:

I'm guessing he's a big donor to the XC and track programs. Separating themselves from him might mean his annual contributions go away.

Now we're getting to the root of why Diaz is going to the end's of the earth to defend this guy and This is the only reason he was permitted to speak to the team. $$$. I went to their site: I've never seen such a robust high school athletic program. The money at stake must be large.

Too bad that he thinks teens are incapable of researching independently or forming their own opinion when there is so much material.

Elaborator wrote:

Swerving Line wrote:

Off course Oscar explained it very well in the Kip thread, look it up.

And...why can't some of you posters figure out the obvious?? He can't run with the runners who are actually running 6:40 pace so he doesn't want to be seen by them as he could not last very long...hence he starts in the back of the pack. Come on guys, not that tough.

He gets to a mat, crosses it and then gets off the course, very easy to do and that's what he did. Some of you saying that's what YOU believe is hilarious to a whole different level.

No. No. No.

It must be way more complicated than that with accomplices and outfit changes, etc,

No, it's really that easy. He did it alone on a bike or with someone driving him. That's it.

Outfit change?? Yeah, when he's in the vehicle between mats.

Frank is laughing at you guys making a mountain out of a molehill. He cheated and the video proof is simply icing on the cake and nothing more.

HE WILL NOT RACE AGAIN------GUARANTEED! Something will be made up that won't allow him to train properly....wait for it as I GUARANTEE YOU IT'S COMING. I said this pages ago and it got no traction. He'll pull the Oscar Miranda and Rosie Ruiz lie...I can't run anymore. Excuses will be coming as he knew what he'd say if he ever got caught.

Wait for it;)

Not Possible wrote:

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

It would be hard to believe that none of them can evaluate overwhelming evidence.

Loyola is probably the pre-eminent secondary school in the greater Los Angeles area. It is full of bright kids, teachers, administrators, and parents/guardians. As more and more members of the Loyola HS community become aware of the overwhelming evidence of Meza's cheating and subsequent mendacity, I am confident that more will do the right thing and speak out (a la kegboy).

It is troubling that that Lalo Diaz and the Loyola HS administration allowed Meza to speak to the XC team and deny the accusations. The kids should not be asked to believe an obvious liar.

To my knowledge, FM is done at Loyola. Regardless of what he told them, I think most kids are aware of the hard evidence, with other coaches having spoken out against him to the kids. No idea why or how he was allowed to address them this weekend, but I nevertheless believe his ties to the school are severed.

From Doubler's article today:

"Frank addressed the Loyola HS Track Team at practice. Frank denied that he cut any courses and told the team that he would prove himself at Chicago – reiterating a statement that he made to Canadian Running Magazine.

Shortly after telling his team that he would be running in Chicago he addressed the coaches separately, and contradicted what he told the team. He told coaches that he was diagnosed with a heart condition and that his running days may be over."

These statements sounds like someone who is cracking under pressure. Like he mentioned, he's losing sleep. Probably a lot.

This kind weight ages a man. It's actually very plausible that he might suddenly have a "heart condition." Anxiety leads to chest pain which invariably leads to a million dollar work up for a 70 year old, which is guaranteed to at bare minimum show coronary artery calcifications, especially in endurance athletes. (Ok it's not clear if FM was ever much of an endurance athlete).

At this point, we have to assume a few week before Chicago that Frank will hire somebody to actually hurt him; a fake robbery/Jessie Smollett type of deal.

Breaking 21 for 5k doesn't seem challenge enough. He's need to go sub 40 for 10k for the challenge.

Nice work, 2muchtime. Curl is magic. Even if you can't get precise times, the relative sequence of runners can be useful.

So here's a last look at whatever can be learned from the 2016 Oakland marathon. It's a frustrating case in some ways because there aren't many timing mats, all the photo locations are at the end of the race, and even the 12.75mi mat seems to give flaky results.

But it is possible to precisely identify three locations on the course: The 19.7 mile mat/Crucible "Arch of Fire" at the corner of Union/7th St.:

https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2016-01/22/793022/1001/0026.jpg?preset=p

The Lake Merritt Bandstand (around 23.76 miles):

https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2016-01/07/793007/1002/0028.jpg?preset=p

And the shore of Lake Merritt, just before the Pergola, around mile 24.57:

https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2016-02/79/792979/1001/0048.jpg?preset=p

https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2016-02/79/792979/1001/0049.jpg?preset=p

FM was no mid-packer in this race! Although he gave most competitors a nearly 2 minute head start, he had moved up to 8th place by the 10K mat. He was still in 8th place at 19.7 miles. At that point, he was 1:10 ahead of ninth place, #201, and 3:43 ahead of tenth place, #135. Both those runners would finish over 2 minutes ahead of FM.

#201, the overall women's winner and 42 years old, ran her final 6.5 miles at 6:53/mile. She appears in pictures with FM at the bandstand, which means she gapped him by 2:36 in the last 2.44 miles. If we assume metronome-like pacing, that suggests a pace of 7:57/mile for FM from the bandstand to the finish line. FM and #135 don't appear in pictures together, but to judge by the sequence, FM is still leading #135 at the Pergola. If we assume the separation at that point is minimal, it means that #135 gapped FM by 2:18 in the last 1.63 miles. Compared to #135's average pace of 6:34 over the final 6.5 miles, that again points to an average pace of around 7:58/mile for FM over the last few miles on the course.

Now the Oakland 2016 course also presents a bit of a problem for any would-be course cutter. There are multiple photo locations in the last 3 miles, and there's a big lake between you and the finish line. You'd better be prepared to run that last 5K under your own power.

FM had a lead of just over a minute on #201 at mile 19.7. Maybe he slowed to 7:10/mile and gradually lost ground to #201 so that she caught him at the bandstand. Or...maybe he started running, at 8:00/mile, about a mile from the bandstand. That would put FM back on the course at an interesting location, about 400 meters and around the corner (on Telegraph Ave.) from the First Presbyterian Church at the corner of 27th and Broadway. No photos were taken at the church in 2016. But it was a photo location in 2015:

https://iconic-imagecdn.azureedge.net/MFT2015-01/12/773412/1001/0035.jpg?preset=p

The evidence is not definitive and open to multiple interpretations.

One option: FM started 1:47 after the gun, valiantly fought his way through 676 walkers and joggers, got too ambitious and crossed the 10K mat in 39:47 (AG: 89.4%), slowed a bit after 20 miles, but still hung on for a sub-3 hour marathon (AG: 91.7%).

Another option: FM started running a quarter mile before the first expected photo location on the course.

I don't think people are giving FM enough credit for physical fitness. He looks like a pretty fit guy to me for his late 60s/early 70s. None of us look our best in every picture. If he ran 3.5 miles at around 8:00/mile in 2016, that would age-grade right around 70%. Not bad! The marathon equivalent would be a very credible 4:10. Which would have given FM top 3 in his age group, with a shot at top 2. He's got a good shot at breaking 26 in a 5K even now.

Really well done. And when we consider his Boston time, which I believe is probably accurate, we’re looking at a guy who could run 4:10 or 4:30 or something in that range. It’s too bad that just wasn’t good enough for him. He could have racked up HM and marathon finisher’s medals and people would have respected that.

RossiCheated wrote:

Really well done. And when we consider his Boston time, which I believe is probably accurate, we’re looking at a guy who could run 4:10 or 4:30 or something in that range. It’s too bad that just wasn’t good enough for him. He could have racked up HM and marathon finisher’s medals and people would have respected that.

+1

......being a Dr. and someone who loves running he should be able to see that anyone that can run distance when they are 50-60-70 has won the lottery and should be basking in gratitude too much to ever take times so serious as to cheat for them.

vs.

maybe this wrote:

#201, the overall women's winner and 42 years old, ran her final 6.5 miles at 6:53/mile. She appears in pictures with FM at the bandstand, which means she gapped him by 2:36 in the last 2.44 miles. If we assume metronome-like pacing, that suggests a pace of 7:57/mile for FM from the bandstand to the finish line. FM and #135 don't appear in pictures together, but to judge by the sequence, FM is still leading #135 at the Pergola. If we assume the separation at that point is minimal, it means that #135 gapped FM by 2:18 in the last 1.63 miles. Compared to #135's average pace of 6:34 over the final 6.5 miles, that again points to an average pace of around 7:58/mile for FM over the last few miles on the course.

I love it when you talk stats, baby. Thanks, MaybeThis. And thanks for diving deeply into this as well. I don't think any rational person has remaining doubts about Frank being a cheat, but it's interesting to dissect the evidence anyway.

On a more personal note, while I don't feel too sorry for Frank in light of his continual doubling down on the lies, I do have to wonder if, in addition to narcissistic reasons, Frank misses actually being able to keep up with the kids he coaches. I have little doubt that he was a runner of basic talent at an earlier age, and my coach used to tell us that he would never have us do a workout he couldn't do. We called him on it once, and he kicked our asses. So, I bet Frank could run with his kids at one point. Hell, in my case, my kids' high school coach had me show up on occasion to put the hurt to the young whippersnappers to teach them pacing and maybe a little respect for their elders. But as the years add on, I'm realistic about my ability to keep up with the kids. Maybe Frank couldn't let that one go. Kinda like the old sled dog axiom--if you're not the lead dog, the view is always the same. I don't wish Frank any ill will. In fact, had LAM disqualified him quickly, I probably wouldn't have cared at all. But Ed Whitlock is a hero to me and probably most older runners, and I don't want his legacy to be in any way marginalized by someone like Frank.

maybe this wrote:

In fact, had LAM disqualified him quickly, I probably wouldn't have cared at all. But Ed Whitlock is a hero to me and probably most older runners, and I don't want his legacy to be in any way marginalized by someone like Frank.

Agree 100%

bored troller wrote:

RossiCheated wrote:

Really well done. And when we consider his Boston time, which I believe is probably accurate, we’re looking at a guy who could run 4:10 or 4:30 or something in that range. It’s too bad that just wasn’t good enough for him. He could have racked up HM and marathon finisher’s medals and people would have respected that.

+1

Yes, but remember that his apparently legitimate 4:25 at Boston was a long time ago, when he was still in his late 50s, I think. There is no way he's capable of that 12ish years later.

This is probably the most sympathetic and charitable explanation for Frank's behavior and for why anyone should care about the truth getting widely publicized. I believe Frank deserves to reap what he sows and I hope that non-runners understand that this matters.

LoLoyla wrote:

doubler has a snitch on the Loyola coaching staff? nice!

Derek’s latest story is an interesting development. However, he doesn’t give a source. Did he get this presumably from one of the coaches? The administration? A parent?