It 100% was. It basically phased itself out yesterday as I made sure to roll a lot and stretch my hamstrings all day. I wish you luck on that forecast. Plenty of time for that to change. I don't have the obsession over my fitness but I am definitely allowing race angst to keep me up at night to some degree.
Toadlips wrote:
As for you, you're definitely doing something right with your recent race times. They say you're supposed to gain a few pounds due to "carb loading" in the last marathon week, so don't even sweat it! You got this, man!
My training definitely hasn't been "by the book." No MP miles, no LT workouts, only a couple track workouts. Races have essentially been the "workouts" in this cycle.
This weekend I'll be relying on four key assets: basic talent (not a whole lot, but 16:xx and 34:xx in college), decent mileage (40+ per week and more consistent than I've run in years), long runs (all easy pace, but quite a few), and experience (23 previous marathons).
Marathon numbers 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were sub-3, although all of those were more than 20 years ago. I hope to summon those distant mind/muscle memories this weekend!
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
It 100% was. It basically phased itself out yesterday as I made sure to roll a lot and stretch my hamstrings all day. I wish you luck on that forecast. Plenty of time for that to change. I don't have the obsession over my fitness but I am definitely allowing race angst to keep me up at night to some degree.
That's great! Random taper pains are one of the most frustrating things about the training process - I've been fortunate not to deal with any this cycle (knock on wood). I'm trying not to worry about the forecast, I'm fine with getting wet, but I don't want to run in drenched shoes for 26 miles.
Advice on fuel for marathon? Only my second one
For my first one this May i planned on gels at 7-14-21 and got 7&14 but was so dejected i was walk/jogging from 20-finish i forgot 21.
In my training I’ve been taking at 45 minutes for any runs over 60 minutes so my body is used to.
My plan this time is also 7-14-21 but try and hit Gatorade/water every 3rd mile if possible.
Thanks for any insight!
Jack Horner Boogie Nights wrote:
Advice on fuel for marathon? Only my second one
For my first one this May i planned on gels at 7-14-21 and got 7&14 but was so dejected i was walk/jogging from 20-finish i forgot 21.
In my training I’ve been taking at 45 minutes for any runs over 60 minutes so my body is used to.
My plan this time is also 7-14-21 but try and hit Gatorade/water every 3rd mile if possible.
Thanks for any insight!
Haven't done a marathon but several IM 70.3s...I like the Gu Gels every two miles - its a slower, more consistent flow of energy - plan on doing them every even mile starting at mile 4 and probably through mile 22.
Hoping to hit up a tiny sip of water on the even (GU) miles and a tiny sip of gatorade on the odd (non GU) miles. I suspect I'll miss some of these - but hopefully at least 10x total for both.
last chance runner wrote:
Toadlips wrote:
As for you, you're definitely doing something right with your recent race times. They say you're supposed to gain a few pounds due to "carb loading" in the last marathon week, so don't even sweat it! You got this, man!
My training definitely hasn't been "by the book." No MP miles, no LT workouts, only a couple track workouts. Races have essentially been the "workouts" in this cycle.
This weekend I'll be relying on four key assets: basic talent (not a whole lot, but 16:xx and 34:xx in college), decent mileage (40+ per week and more consistent than I've run in years), long runs (all easy pace, but quite a few), and experience (23 previous marathons).
Marathon numbers 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were sub-3, although all of those were more than 20 years ago. I hope to summon those distant mind/muscle memories this weekend!
You've got this! Looking forward to the report.
Toadlips - congrats on the 3:04, that's a helluva time at any age, let alone 47. As another poster mentioned, you have the sub-3 in you. Sometimes it takes a solid cycle and not quite hitting the goal to set you up for your next success. Enjoyed following your training, and best of luck in the next cycle. Hope you enjoyed Chicago.
Taper pains - they're real. Just need time to pass. After an almost niggle-free cycle, every little thing seemed to pop up in the 10 days leading up to Chicago. Ultimately, I got to the starting line healthy without feeling any of those effects on race day.
Good effort Toadlips! I was wondering how it was going for you while I stood around a bit cold a corral up.
So anyway...43 (44 in a few days) and 185 lbs. I had 36 hours of terrible diarrhea going into the race (So maybe 183 lbs or so). Basically, I got to Chicago and was on the can every 30 mins or so. Didn't feel terrible, other than ass eruptions every 30-60 mins. Went through the 24 hours max of Pepto by 8 PM night before race, then hit Imodium. Sleep, up at 4, more Imodium, and off to start. (I was freaking out, never had anything like this happen before...and that whole don't try something new on race day.)
So I enter Grant Park, they tell me to go left...I see tons of empty porta potties to the right...I go right. More awfulness happens...then suddenly, it seems to be done. I finish up, head right, and get to corral A. Wait outside, one more porta pottie visit...just a piss...wow! Go into corral about 7:10 to make sure I'm in before cut-off of 7:20. Tick tock, guns goes off, I'm across start in maybe 10 seconds (1:20 or so after pros/elites/etc). GPS goes to crap right off the bat, so I pay it no attention and run comfortably for 5 miles before I check goal (sub 2:50) to actual time elapsed...I'm well under.
I continue to run what feels like an effort I can keep up for an entire marathon. Hamstrings bother me a little bit after just a few miles, think I may be a bit dehydrated from GI issues even though I tried to drink a ton of water. I just keep running what feels comfortable (while kind of a painful, but can deal with for 26 painful). I hit the half at 1:23:22, I'm well under my pace band I put in at 2:49 which is giving me buffer time to go sub 2:50. I'm feeling pretty good, but my goal was sub 2:50 not 2:46:37 or something like that. I hit cruise control...I know things could go to crap at mile 23 and I don't want it to derail my goal. Plus, having been sick, I don't know who energy stores (or gut) is going to hold up. I decide to run at a comfortable pace and check back again at 20.
I check back again at 20 miles and I've lost few seconds, but still a good bit of cushion. I drop it a notch again, I'm starting to feel it...the effect of people drafting off me...which annoys me. The effect of speeding up to connect with a group to draft a bit myself. Forgetting how much effort is required to run an open, road marathon (this is my 6th, first was 2011). Decide I'll check again at 24... Whoa! I lost a lot of time! The finish was supposed to be a tailwind and it wasn't working out that way. I was working and losing time...but not much left to go, so I up the pace a bit. My wife is cheering for me at 25.5 so it was a bit easier to run fast and look like it was easy. A quick right, damn...a sorta, kinda hill, then a left...yay finish line is just up the road: 2:48:48.
4+ min PR from Boston 2013. 1:23:22/1:25:26...severe positive split, let up some but didn't feel like that much, can do better. No plans to run a marathon next year, but will do Boston 2021. Don't think I can pull a sub 2:45, so it will be nice just to go for a PR. Plus...I'll be a bit older.
My report...I wish the rest of you well in your glory!!!
Heavier dude: Thanks for sharing! I laughed my a** off reading it. "ass eruptions every 30-60 mins"
Congrats to your PR! 2 min positive split is in my opinion borderline to perfect execution. Considering the wind in Chicago and the fact that you had to run in front as well as the energy problems with the stomach problems.. well, dude that's almost perfect execution!!
For us on the metric system 2.48.48 is a beautiful number and one that many seek to beat. It is 4min/km which is a magic barrier. Good luck with your future running endeavors!
Jack Horner Boogie Nights wrote:
Advice on fuel for marathon? Only my second one
I use 6 Maurten gels in a marathon. Every 25min or so. I drink only water. I take only a sip or two at most water stations and never drink much at any given station.
I’m sitting here at work bouncing around on my chair, full of excess energy. All I can focus on is checking the weather forecast every 5min, checking the course map, thinking about racing strategy and everything in between.
Might as well share my running story with you guys, if anyone is interested in reading.
I started hobbyjogging at the age of 31 in 2003. In 2004 I ran my first marathon after putting in approximately 630 mi of training. I just ran. Had a 9.5mi loop just outside my house which was quite hilly. Basically, I raced this 2 times a week and sometimes I ran 3 times a week. I trained for a hilly 19mi race in the autumn which is a big race where I come from. I finished the race and managed quite well with my limited running. Then I thought maybe I can run a marathon. I was terrified just thinking about it back then.
So I found a running forum and asked more experienced runners how I should run a marathon. They were all very helpful and said that I could use the result on that 19mi race. Many testified that the pace/mi from that race translate well to a flat marathon. For me, that was 7’04-pace. This one lady on the forum was running a marathon and wanted to run approximately the same pace, so we decided to team up. So, I ended up doing 3.06 in my first marathon. Last mile same pace as the first.
This confidence boost made me feel that I was invincible and that breaking 3 hours is a piece of cake. So I trained a bit more structured for 2005, aiming at a marathon in June. That race didn’t go so well…
I took off like a bat outta hell from the gun and ran like it was a 10k race. Ten miles into the race, I was totally smoked. Had an inner conversation with myself along the lines of “stupid moran. That’s what people on the forum told you! Don’t take it too lightly, it’s hard to run a marathon”. So I decided, that I will DNF, go home, be humble about the marathon and prepare to break 3 in the autumn.
Autumn 2005 I went sub 3 for the first time. 2.58.57 with 1 second positive split for the halves. Since then, I’ve been hooked on running and have been averaging somewhere shy of 30 miles/week for the last 15yrs. My maximum weekly average for approximately 12-20 wks has been 50mi/wk in preparation for races.
I have run 16 marathons of which 8 are sub 3. PR is 2.48.03 from 2014 at the age of 42. My last sub 3 was in 2015. Kind of lost my motivation for marathon a bit there. Got a bit fat and drank too much beer and came to the conclusion that I missed being in shape, so started training again. Got even more motivation when I was just 10 sec of my half PR at age 46. However, I caught a cold going into the marathon and missed the sub 3 that year and came in at a disappointing 3.05. I kept at it though, and on Sunday we will see if the a 47yr old hobbyjogger will go home with that amateur glory of going sub 3 again. Psyched!
Run well everyone!
last chance runner - It's interesting to me to see the different training approaches that folks have taken to reach their goals in the marathon. I've attempted the "throw some miles at it" approach, but maybe I ramped up my mileage too quickly considering I was starting from a low-mileage base over the winter. I'm interested in seeing how your (relatively) low mileage/speed intensive approach works.
runguy midwest - Thanks, man! 3:04 ain't bad for a man nearing the end of his forties, but, you know how it is! I heard that sub-3 calling me, and I just can't shake it! I just want one more sub-3 out of these aging legs!
Definitely enjoyed Chicago. I had to do the old "get in & get out of the city", though. Would've liked to have spent some more time there to enjoy the atmosphere, but various obligations prevented that. I've run Boston & New York, so this was my final Abbott-whatever marathon (at least in North America). The logistics are great for a marathon of this magnitude, and the crowd support was outstanding. The course was flat and fast, as promised. Chicago is a great city with all kinds of amenities, and I had no problem finding everything I needed the night before, namely a big order of spaghetti! It takes me about 5 hours to drive to Chicago, and there's no doubt I will do it again someday!
Hey! Weren't you supposed to be there, running right along side me? How'd YOU like Chicago?? :)
heavier dude - That's funny -- I thought of you when the wind started whipping. I looked for a bigger dude to draft behind!! I can only imagine what was going through your mind during that long, painful 36 hours. If you haven't had one, that sounds an awful lot like the prep work for a colonoscopy, where you take an entire 2 week supply of Miralax in the course of a few hours and ride the toilet for the rest of the night. I can't believe you were able to recover from that and then run a 2:48:48 as a "heavier" 43/4 year old. That is extremely impressive. Congratulations on destroying the sub-3! Glory awaits you in Boston!!!!
Jack Horner Boogie Nights wrote:
Advice on fuel for marathon? Only my second one
Thanks for any insight!
It's super important to practice simulating fueling in marathon like conditions. I generally have an iron stomach, and nothing bothers it, so I half-assed fueling during my training runs and paid a price during my first marathon.
The body adjusts blood flow to where it is most needed during endurance events, and that tends to be away from the stomach during later stages of marathons. Be prepared!
Toadlips wrote:
I'm interested in seeing how your (relatively) low mileage/speed intensive approach works.
Low mileage, perhaps, but historically high for me. Speed intensive? Not sure I'd describe my training that way. During the past four months, 90 percent of my mileage was "easy pace," mostly 8:00+ per mile. But yeah, gonna be interesting!
Here's how the past 16 weeks breaks down, based on pace (includes races):
Easy: 39.7 mpw (7:00+ pace)
MP: 0.5 mpw (6:40-7:00 pace)
HM/LT: 3.0 mpw (5:50-6:40 pace)
VO2max: 1.2 mpw (5:20-5:50 pace)
Total: 44.5 miles per week
I wonder how those numbers would compare to a typical Daniels or Pfitz marathon plan?
Races: Except for two track workouts, all my VO2max miles were 5K races. A 10-mile race and a half-marathon race accounted for half of my LT-range miles. During the 16 weeks, I raced four 5Ks, an 8K, a 10-miler, and a half marathon.
Long runs: During the 16 weeks, I logged 15 runs of 14 miles or longer. Eight were 14-18 miles, seven were 18-23 miles (18, 18, 20, 20, 23, 21, 20).
----
Northener - Thanks for sharing the background story. That's a lot of sub-3s on your resume, especially impressive after having started so late in life. All seven of my sub-3s were before age 24! Your 2:48 at 42 is fantastic. Good luck this weekend!
Heavier dude - Man, that's a helluva story, and what a tough few days, right up to start time. But more importantly, what a run! Four-minute PR and a smokin' time, savor this! And a 2-minute positive split is "even pacing" in my book. Congrats.
last chance runner wrote:
All seven of my sub-3s were before age 24
Umm, make that FIVE sub-3s. Of my first seven marathons, two were not (3:15 and 3:02) ...
Sticky Notes wrote:
Jack Horner Boogie Nights wrote:
Advice on fuel for marathon? Only my second one
Thanks for any insight!
It's super important to practice simulating fueling in marathon like conditions. I generally have an iron stomach, and nothing bothers it, so I half-assed fueling during my training runs and paid a price during my first marathon.
The body adjusts blood flow to where it is most needed during endurance events, and that tends to be away from the stomach during later stages of marathons. Be prepared!
I tried to simulate best i could during training but through time I’m sure I’ll get it down pat. Took gels during all my long runs (70+ min) and my hard workouts. So basically twice a week. But yeah nothing can really simulate being out there for ~ 3 hrs
I've been following this thread for a while now but thought I'd post. Goal marathon is Indy in a little less than 4 weeks. Trying to decide whether to shoot for sub3.
A little background I started running at the end of 2017 (when I was 27, 29 now) but just a couple runs a week totaling maybe 10-15 mpw to get in shape and lose some weight. Then 2018 hit and I wanted to run a half marathon in April. Increased to 20 mpw and ran a 1:35 which was well under my 1:40 goal. At this point I was hooked and really started to get into running and training. Increased mileage a bit and ran a 1:26 half marathon October 2018 and then ran my first full marathon in Dec 2018. I knew I didn't really have much endurance for the full so I didn't start off too fast and ended up running 3:29 (1:43/1:46 splits). It was around 70 degrees which definitely didn't help but I feel like I gave that race all I had. I wanted to stop so bad those last 4 miles but just kept slowly chugging along without stopping. But this was way worse than my half time.
This year I have stayed fairly consistent around 50 mpw all year and even hit 70 mpw once leading up to a half marathon last weekend. Ended up surprising myself with a 1:21 (and last 3 mile splits of 5:55, 5:52, and 5:42) so I probably could have started off a little faster but I'm really happy with it. So now that brings me to my full marathon in 4 weeks. I want to shoot for sub3 really bad but also don't want to fall apart those last few miles. I might just go for it anyway and whatever happens happens.
I like your chances..1:21 is moving. We're 3 days away I can't wait. My legs feel great. I didn't even sleep great last night (my building hasn't turned on heat and it took me an hour to warm up before I fell asleep), but I feel a ton of energy. Really excited for starting gun, and to see what I can do.
On fueling, for me I'm used to taking 2 gels on my 18-21 mile long runs. I worry about more (my stomach gets swirly), so I have gummies. I definitely am going to go earlier and often on my gels from my first marathon (maybe 45 mins and 1:40 in with gummies intermixed). I've heard of people taking 6, which I dont think my stomach could handle.
Thanks THOUGHTSLEADER. I think I have a much better marathon base after a solid year of decent mileage since last year's 3:29 marathon. I think I'll try and go through the half around 1:29 and see how it goes. You never know unless you try, right?
And for fueling I think I had 3 gels last marathon and maybe shoot for 4 this time. I've never tried gummies maybe I'll give those a try on one of my last long runs and incorporate those as well. Do you need to wash those down with water like gels or are they much easier to take?