WOW that puts it all in perspective. This isn't like a stomach issue, which can pop up randomly no matter what you do...he just overran his quads' muscular endurance. That's humiliating.
I am sorry if these are low value comments, but I'm still just shook. I think he should feel very lucky for his 4th place. This is insane.
Watched a bit more, and it seems like jim is one of those runners who wants to grit it out and do the "running motion" even when hiking might be faster and more efficient. He was pumping his arms while people walked comfortably behind him. I see that from newbies all the time, but not pros.
Apparently Killian was dealing with some leg issue. Maybe his monster season finally caught up to him. Mattieu looked smoother in the final descent.
Re: Jim's legs. Does Francois have much thicker quads? Or Xavier? Jim run a great race, pushed too hard at some point and paid for it. Kilian was 5th at SZ and nobody is questioning if his thick legs were the issue. A 5th and a fast 4th are great results at UTMB. Being able to run the WS course so fast and contend for the podium at UTMB is not a disaster. And he may still improve on those results.
It doesn't matter what size your quads are.
The secret with ultraraces is, that you have to do your own thing to get to the finish line. It doesn't matter at all what others do at any point in an ultra. Jim has not gotten this message yet. Everybody has ups and downs in a long race. But Jim thinks he has to "race" people mid race. The problem is nobody else cares. They are all doing their thing to get closer to the finish line.
And then just after the last big aid station around mile 89, Kilian puts the hammer down and gains 3-4 minutes on the next stretch to the final high point. After that Kilian just had to control his lead to the finish.
Agreed, and I alluded to the same earlier in this thread. Jim's need to apply "race moves" trying to beat people (re: Kilian) rather than simply maximizing his own effort efficiently cost him the race. Watch Mathieu's post-race if you haven't, even this relative unknown/rookie (of sorts) managed his own effort nearly perfectly, while also recognizing Jim's move as foolhardy. Kind of embarrassing for Jim in a way, but unlikely he's embarrassed, more likely he's proud of his bold move and hoping he can make it stick next time. We've seen that movie 4 times now with basically the same result (disappointment).
Apparently Killian was dealing with some leg issue. Maybe his monster season finally caught up to him. Mattieu looked smoother in the final descent.
Re: Jim's legs. Does Francois have much thicker quads? Or Xavier? Jim run a great race, pushed too hard at some point and paid for it. Kilian was 5th at SZ and nobody is questioning if his thick legs were the issue. A 5th and a fast 4th are great results at UTMB. Being able to run the WS course so fast and contend for the podium at UTMB is not a disaster. And he may still improve on those results.
It doesn't matter what size your quads are.
The secret with ultraraces is, that you have to do your own thing to get to the finish line. It doesn't matter at all what others do at any point in an ultra. Jim has not gotten this message yet. Everybody has ups and downs in a long race. But Jim thinks he has to "race" people mid race. The problem is nobody else cares. They are all doing their thing to get closer to the finish line.
And then just after the last big aid station around mile 89, Kilian puts the hammer down and gains 3-4 minutes on the next stretch to the final high point. After that Kilian just had to control his lead to the finish.
Well, you kind of couldn't be more wrong, specifically with regard to what actually happened at UTMB. Jim broke Killian with that move and Killian would have dropped. Killian did not drop because he was saved by Mathieu. Listen to any of the top 5 finishers and the way they raced was very much influenced by the people they were racing with, they did not run in some isolated bubble. Everybody at the top cared where everyone else was. The only reason Killian got the time he got was because he was racing and helped by others. Jim's move turned out to be a mistake for sure, but he may well have still gotten third if Mathieu would have chosen to blow by Kilian and further demoralized him. Mathieu cost himself a race by his admiration of Kilian.
I think its sort of the fundamental difference in how Walmsley races though, which isn't necessarily bad. His goal always seems to be to not only win but set a CR. Its obvious from Mathieu's interview that he wasn't really thinking of winning, just doing his best based on how he was feeling. If Jim's move had worked we wouldn't be talking about how it was foolish we'd say it was smart. Honestly, watching it, seemed like this was his smartest UTMB yet but yeah destroying his quads that far from the finish was not good. Yet, he nearly broke Kilian.
I think the most interesting thing is hearing how Kilian got in his head so much. Its refreshing to know that even the GOAT has those same mental struggles. Sure Mathieu could have blown by him and possibly won but that whole interaction is so much better of a story and exemplifys what this sport is all about.
Well, you kind of couldn't be more wrong, specifically with regard to what actually happened at UTMB. Jim broke Killian with that move and Killian would have dropped. Killian did not drop because he was saved by Mathieu. Listen to any of the top 5 finishers and the way they raced was very much influenced by the people they were racing with, they did not run in some isolated bubble. Everybody at the top cared where everyone else was. The only reason Killian got the time he got was because he was racing and helped by others. Jim's move turned out to be a mistake for sure, but he may well have still gotten third if Mathieu would have chosen to blow by Kilian and further demoralized him. Mathieu cost himself a race by his admiration of Kilian.
I think its sort of the fundamental difference in how Walmsley races though, which isn't necessarily bad. His goal always seems to be to not only win but set a CR. Its obvious from Mathieu's interview that he wasn't really thinking of winning, just doing his best based on how he was feeling. If Jim's move had worked we wouldn't be talking about how it was foolish we'd say it was smart. Honestly, watching it, seemed like this was his smartest UTMB yet but yeah destroying his quads that far from the finish was not good. Yet, he nearly broke Kilian.
I think the most interesting thing is hearing how Kilian got in his head so much. Its refreshing to know that even the GOAT has those same mental struggles. Sure Mathieu could have blown by him and possibly won but that whole interaction is so much better of a story and exemplifys what this sport is all about.
Racing to set CRs is nonsense, especially in ultra races. Kilian did get broken. But Kilian won the UMTB with a CR.
Also, just have to say I stayed up all night watching the coverage, this was one of the greatest UTMB's ever and so fun to watch. Kinda tanked my whole weekend but it was worth it. My 9 year old stayed up pretty late following with me and he is determined to stay up and watch it with me next year haha.
This thread was great to check in on too. One of the few times a letsrun thread actually has stayed pretty chill too and didnt turn into sideshow.
I think its sort of the fundamental difference in how Walmsley races though, which isn't necessarily bad. His goal always seems to be to not only win but set a CR. Its obvious from Mathieu's interview that he wasn't really thinking of winning, just doing his best based on how he was feeling. If Jim's move had worked we wouldn't be talking about how it was foolish we'd say it was smart. Honestly, watching it, seemed like this was his smartest UTMB yet but yeah destroying his quads that far from the finish was not good. Yet, he nearly broke Kilian.
I think the most interesting thing is hearing how Kilian got in his head so much. Its refreshing to know that even the GOAT has those same mental struggles. Sure Mathieu could have blown by him and possibly won but that whole interaction is so much better of a story and exemplifys what this sport is all about.
Racing to set CRs is nonsense, especially in ultra races. Kilian did get broken. But Kilian won the UMTB with a CR.
I mean, its not entirely nonsense. He has set many CR's and by huge margins, especially at WSER. I think his CR there is likely safe for a long time. Not only that but if he had not pushed the pace this year at UTMB its possible Kilian would not have broken the CR.
Kilian didn't get broken, he had a low point just like most normal people in a 100 mile race. Its cool to know that even he has those same low points and feelings of not being good enough etc... I think most of use running these long races have experienced the same thing and been saved by others helping us to keep going.
Well, you kind of couldn't be more wrong, specifically with regard to what actually happened at UTMB. Jim broke Killian with that move and Killian would have dropped. Killian did not drop because he was saved by Mathieu. Listen to any of the top 5 finishers and the way they raced was very much influenced by the people they were racing with, they did not run in some isolated bubble. Everybody at the top cared where everyone else was. The only reason Killian got the time he got was because he was racing and helped by others. Jim's move turned out to be a mistake for sure, but he may well have still gotten third if Mathieu would have chosen to blow by Kilian and further demoralized him. Mathieu cost himself a race by his admiration of Kilian.
Have you ever done a 100 miler?
Yes. I did not win. Have you won a 100 miler? Who did you beat?
Is there anything to say that Kílian was about to DNF? I don't think so. That's what Mathieu's team manager told him. Didn't mean it was necessarily true, and considering his experience probably wouldn't be if it was a purely psychological issue.
What it sounded like from Mathieu's story is that Kílian had been dealt such a mental blow by Jim, that he was about to settle with not winning.
I mean, fair enough to Jim there, he legitimately broke a legend. It's just that the story contained another player, and one that carried mental ambrosia.
So the true hero of UTMB 2022 is undoubtedly Mathieu Blanchard. He ran the most consistent race of all the key players. He also stirred a beast that had been tricked and cowed by Jim's quad-busting antics, which gave us the two best UTMB performances ever.
I am sorry if these are low value comments, but I'm still just shook. I think he should feel very lucky for his 4th place. This is insane.
Watched a bit more, and it seems like jim is one of those runners who wants to grit it out and do the "running motion" even when hiking might be faster and more efficient. He was pumping his arms while people walked comfortably behind him. I see that from newbies all the time, but not pros.
Your comments have been solid, keep them coming if you have more. And I will repeat what I have said that generally mesh with yours, IMO Jim "over-competes" at UTMB. He brought the hyper-competitive approach from the track/roads to trail ultras, which has worked for most including States. But it has not worked here. He could learn a lot about patience/pacing from 2nd place finisher Mathieu. But he's Jim, and will more likely keep doing it Jim's way. Maybe eventually it will work. Or not.
Outside of Jim and Zach, are there any other up and coming American males ready to get in the mix?
Is there anything to say that Kílian was about to DNF? I don't think so. That's what Mathieu's team manager told him. Didn't mean it was necessarily true, and considering his experience probably wouldn't be if it was a purely psychological issue.
What it sounded like from Mathieu's story is that Kílian had been dealt such a mental blow by Jim, that he was about to settle with not winning.
I mean, fair enough to Jim there, he legitimately broke a legend. It's just that the story contained another player, and one that carried mental ambrosia.
So the true hero of UTMB 2022 is undoubtedly Mathieu Blanchard. He ran the most consistent race of all the key players. He also stirred a beast that had been tricked and cowed by Jim's quad-busting antics, which gave us the two best UTMB performances ever.
Considering the details of Killian's mental journey during UTMB, instead of relying on the second hand and obviously biased sources, I'd rather wait and listen to Killian's report.
Is there anything to say that Kílian was about to DNF? I don't think so. That's what Mathieu's team manager told him. Didn't mean it was necessarily true, and considering his experience probably wouldn't be if it was a purely psychological issue.
What it sounded like from Mathieu's story is that Kílian had been dealt such a mental blow by Jim, that he was about to settle with not winning.
I mean, fair enough to Jim there, he legitimately broke a legend. It's just that the story contained another player, and one that carried mental ambrosia.
So the true hero of UTMB 2022 is undoubtedly Mathieu Blanchard. He ran the most consistent race of all the key players. He also stirred a beast that had been tricked and cowed by Jim's quad-busting antics, which gave us the two best UTMB performances ever.
Mathieu absolutely gets my vote for star of the show. His post-race interview is the stuff of legends - layer upon layer upon layer of keen insights about so many things, but most of all the mental game.
Kilian posted to social media and said he was thinking of dropping when he got to champex. He said “Matthieu changed my darkness to light”. So yeah Kilian even according to him was close to dropping.