The Final Is Here: Deena Kastor or Jim Ryun - Who is the American GOAT?

I'm a huge Lagat fan, but for some reason, I can't include him in this poll. I know he's an American citizen and went to college in the U.S. but he basically built his career as a Kenyan and trained as a Kenyan (In Kenya). Also, in case some of you don't know he tested positive for EPO some years ago (1st test= positive 2nd= inconclusive). I know it's not a "Failed" test but is suspicious nonetheless. Mary Decker?????? Seriously?????? Athletics West was ground zero for steroids.

Just Sayin'

So it's cool that Ryun ran fast while in high school, but bad that a 14-year-old Decker was running internationally and on 70s steroids, obviously.

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

I'm a huge Lagat fan, but for some reason, I can't include him in this poll. I know he's an American citizen and went to college in the U.S. but he basically built his career as a Kenyan and trained as a Kenyan (In Kenya). Also, in case some of you don't know he tested positive for EPO some years ago (1st test= positive 2nd= inconclusive). I know it's not a "Failed" test but is suspicious nonetheless. Mary Decker?????? Seriously?????? Athletics West was ground zero for steroids.

Just Sayin'

He trained in the US wayyyyyy more than he trained in Kenya and you need to re-read the report on the false positive because when they tested both samples correctly neither were positive. So much misinformation in your post.

seasoned ranker wrote:

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

I'm a huge Lagat fan, but for some reason, I can't include him in this poll. I know he's an American citizen and went to college in the U.S. but he basically built his career as a Kenyan and trained as a Kenyan (In Kenya). Also, in case some of you don't know he tested positive for EPO some years ago (1st test= positive 2nd= inconclusive). I know it's not a "Failed" test but is suspicious nonetheless. Mary Decker?????? Seriously?????? Athletics West was ground zero for steroids.

Just Sayin'

He trained in the US wayyyyyy more than he trained in Kenya and you need to re-read the report on the false positive because when they tested both samples correctly neither were positive. So much misinformation in your post.

This.

I think if Lagat were a white American-born dude with the same credentials as he racked up during his time in a US jersey (in other words, pretend his times/medals before becoming an American didn't exist), he would've won this thing hands-down. Double 1500/5000 world champ, holds every U.S. record from 1500 to 5000 indoors/out, NCAA title, number of Olympic teams and decent results past his prime, etc. Not really a comparison about who the better runner was between him and any of the other contenders, male or female, I think he's just fighting against the people that don't view him as a true American.

Deena Kastor was a fabulous and tough runner.

But better than Mary Slaney?

Lynn Jenning?

Shalane Flanagan?

Joan Benoit?

I can't see it.

Jim Ryun -- super, super talent

birdbeard wrote:

I think if Lagat were a white American-born dude with the same credentials as he racked up during his time in a US jersey (in other words, pretend his times/medals before becoming an American didn't exist), he would've won this thing hands-down. Double 1500/5000 world champ, holds every U.S. record from 1500 to 5000 indoors/out, NCAA title, number of Olympic teams and decent results past his prime, etc. Not really a comparison about who the better runner was between him and any of the other contenders, male or female, I think he's just fighting against the people that don't view him as a true American.

Correct, but I don't agree with you casting it as a race thing. If Donovan Brazier ends up with the same career as Lagat he'll be the GOAT. If Nick Willis changed citizenship in his prime I wouldn't be excited about his US achievements.

Both trained for some period of time in Alamosa, CO. Nuff said

Between these two, I'd have to say Ryun. If it had been Ryun versus Joanie, it'd be harder and I'd probably have chosen Joanie. Joanie versus Shorter, though, I'd have said Frank.

As others have said, somewhere along the way I think results got off track, so to speak.

I'm not why Billy Mills isn't the GOAT.

I'm not sure why Billy Mills isn't the GOAT.

rojo wrote:

Ryun took a trip down memory lane and talked about his SI covers one by one. If you go to this twitter account, you'll see all 7 titles talked about.

https://twitter.com/jimryun/status/1253399329861074945

Mary Decker Slaney is the only female distance runner with multiple SI covers. She’s got 4, I believe.

Setting 6 World Records is not only racing up to one's abilities but actually surpassing the abilities of EVERYONE who has EVER raced the 800, 1500, Mile, etc. Think about that for a second or 2.5 seconds.

Next time you may want to check your facts and leave your opinions at the door.

dont care what yall think wrote:

Mary Decker Slaney is the only female distance runner with multiple SI covers. She’s got 4, I believe.

Yes. I was the one that brought up SI covers in the other thread under a throwaway name. I tallied up the other runners, including sprinters. I didn't include covers about a theme or event using non-famous runners.

American women.

Mary Decker 4

Jackie Joyner-Kersee 3

Florence Griffith-Joyner 2

Gail Devers 1

Sydney McLaughlin 1

Marion Jones 1

(Caitlin Jenner 1)

American men

Jim Ryun 7

Carl Lewis 7

Frank Shorter 3

Michael Johnson 3

Bill Rodgers 2

Marty Liquori 2

Dave Patrick 1

Tom Courtney 1

Tommie Smith 1

Jim Beatty 1

Dick Buerkle 1

Steve Scott 1

Alberto Salazar 1

Dave Sime/Bobby Morrow 1

Earl Young 1

Non-American men

Eamonn Coghlin 3

Usain Bolt 3

Herb Elliot 2

Seb Coe 2

Ron Delaney 1

John Landy 1

Alberto Juantorena/Mike Boit 1

Ben Johnson 1

Filbert Bayi 1

Roger Bannister 1

Oh, Bruce Jenner had one cover too, so he/she had one under each gender.

I didn't include field eventers except Jenner.

that's fair. i think there is an undercurrent of disdain on this site for african-born americans that there isn't for, say, canadians. but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

still a miler wrote:

It’s quite difficult to compare a male miler from the 60s to a female marathoner of the 21st century..can’t they both be winners? Men and women compete separately

Not in 2020 where there are no genders

Should be Shorter vs Benoit. I'd be ok with either, icons. Shorter lit the fuse, Joanie blew it up. Oh well, new generation. Love our two finalists, Ryan is acceptable as is Deana.

Galen Rupp. Get over it haters.