Riley made the team because he wore Alphaflys. Linden lost out because she didn't.

I doubt Des would have worn the Nike shoes even if Brooks let her. Brooks has paid her a ton of money over the years and she seems pretty loyal to them. Wonder if Brooks will take back the Hyperion 1's they sold in exchange for the 2's? The Fleet Feet I go to told me they weren't supposed to get the 1's until June?

Riley wore VF

Moo Goo wrote:

Riley wore VF

Looks like the Alphafly.

Stop using the shoe as an example. The top 2 women wore nonNike shoes. You are just feeding into the media shoe hype, and not giving the runners their due.

In general the scientists are saying people on an individual level may respond to the shoes and some may not.

So Huddle essentially said the shoe don't work for her (her marathon career is doomed I think if they don't). Maybe for Seidel they do.

As for Des, Brooks had a special shoe for their pros that there other athletes weren't wearing which seems to be proof that their production shoe is not equivalent to a Vaporfly. Until someone does independent testing on the shoes I don't blame anyone who assumes Des' shoe wasn't as good either. Now Des didn't make the team but she's an alternate. For her to be able to run in this new shoe it has to be available by April 30th for the public.

The shoe rules essentially cemented Nike's advantage for this year. If a company could catch-up with a one-off shoe by July they won't be allowed to let their athletes wear it. Really a shame.

I applaud companies like Reebok that let their runners where the Nike shoes and just paint them black. The top 2 Reebok runners were wearing the Nike. Do you want your athletes on a level playing field or not? Might be easier for Reebok as I don't even know if Reebok has a prototype super shoe.

Regardless of who did what at the race, there is no question that properly designed shoes can indeed provide a mechanical spring-load assist. Jake Riley indeed called them "trampoline shoes". That cat is out of the bag, and there is no putting it back.

wejo wrote:

Do you want your athletes on a level playing field or not?

Didn't you see Tom Layden's (with SI at one time?) vblog commentary? He in essence says there is no 'level playing field', since it can be distorted with technology by those with the financial means to do so. His examples were oversize tennis rackets or oversize golf clubs. In essence, there has been a full-on jumping of the shark in the shoe world, crossing-the-line to now accept spring loaded spring-assist shoes.

Will you guys do a proper technical analysis and report, because comments on the boards indicate folks don't yet realize this important point.

dude .... wrote:

ALL these high-profile plate shoes are pronation machines, it seems.

Butler's achilles, it was good to know ya'.

That stuck out to me in that picture to. Butler's pronation is crazy in that pic.

Mr Cup wrote:

dude .... wrote:

ALL these high-profile plate shoes are pronation machines, it seems.

Butler's achilles, it was good to know ya'.

That stuck out to me in that picture to. Butler's pronation is crazy in that pic.

Depending on the shoe-tweaking, they can also be knee-wreckers if shoe designer's try to integrate and force "in-line" techniques for stability compensation. I'm not saying this is definitely why some athletes (gender not mentioned) using the technology in the 2016 eventually became injured.

EDIT: "...in the 2016 OlyMarathonTrials..."

Baltsu wrote:

Maybe there isn't such a big difference between shoes in women because of their lower weight and power. .

Eliud Kipchoge weights 115 pounds. You don't see him saying, "Nah, they won't do me any good."

JustGonna SayIt wrote:

This picture is great. Hope the link works.

Gregg on the left wearing the prototype Brooks that Des Linden also wore. Then Butler on the right, wearing the "all new" Hyperion Elite that went on sale late last week.

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89251563_1116388955401714_3023329472242778112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_ohc=1YSrBV4ZRH8AX-L2wHp&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=a7d03ec330b75121bba450ec37f233a9&oe=5EFA4DF6

Jesus look how much Butler’s pronating! I’m surprised people aren’t having as many ankle problems is shoes with such a high stack height.

Iain wrote:

Let's face it, Riley would've been fourth if hadn't decided to wear Alphaflys instead of Next% on the morning of the race. Just a 1% difference took more than a minute off his time.

Linden was beaten to third by one of the few women wearing Nike trampoline shoes. If she'd had a pair, she'd have made the team.

Yeah right, its all about the shoe. He lost because of his shoes. She won because of her shoes. Boo hoo! Poor so and so didn't have the right shoes. Pathetic! What kind of shoe are you wearing? What kind of shoes is she wearing. Give me a break, Rupp would have won if he were wearing Nikes from the 1980s. And guys from the 80s like Barrios, Salazar, Rogers, Pfitzinger would have given these guys a run for their money, because USA marathoning hasn't really advanced much from the 80s. And now we're attributing wins and making excuses for losses due to a shoe? Instead I'd be asking what the H___ has Rupp been doing to run away from the pack like he did. It's a bad state of afairs if your depending or even thinkin that your shoes are going to make the difference between a win and a loss. The fact is the people won because they were in better shape then anyone else on that particular day. Give Des a couple more miles and she'd have run kipyego down. Riley surprised everyone because he put the work in and peaked at the right time. Stop over analyzing and stop attributing shoes with superpowers. Give credit where credit is due.

weight a minute wrote:

Baltsu wrote:

Maybe there isn't such a big difference between shoes in women because of their lower weight and power. .

Eliud Kipchoge weights 115 pounds. You don't see him saying, "Nah, they won't do me any good."

Kipchoge also ran 3:33 for 1500m. There's no female marathoner who can run within 30 seconds of that time. He has a high power to weight ratio, which is what you want in distance running. He doesn't weigh that much but he can put a lot of force into each stride.

Ankle breaker wrote:

JustGonna SayIt wrote:

This picture is great. Hope the link works.

Gregg on the left wearing the prototype Brooks that Des Linden also wore. Then Butler on the right, wearing the "all new" Hyperion Elite that went on sale late last week.

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89251563_1116388955401714_3023329472242778112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_ohc=1YSrBV4ZRH8AX-L2wHp&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=a7d03ec330b75121bba450ec37f233a9&oe=5EFA4DF6

Jesus look how much Butler’s pronating! I’m surprised people aren’t having as many ankle problems is shoes with such a high stack height.

Put clownsuits on those guys and I'd think they're running toward the small car, or at least toward a suitcase full of big horns.

Again, shoe hysteria people, put all the runners in the same shoe, I don't care what the shoe is, and the same results would occur. The strongest runners win in the marathon.

DC Wonk wrote:

Again, shoe hysteria people, put all the runners in the same shoe, I don't care what the shoe is, and the same results would occur. The strongest runners win in the marathon.

Two things:

1. They WEREN'T all in the same shoe.

2. That alpha-fly shoe with the air-pods can be specifically tweaked by the manufacturer. Should they choose, they could purposely selectively "deaden" its spring restitution characteristics in cases where they would want the shoe to underperform.

Nice try. Maybe Jake made the team because everyone else blew up and the conditions and course favored a strong plow horse. The sensationalist QOTD from Troop last week seemed misguided and not giving the runner credit after the race is just as misguided. The Nike shoes were credited with helping women 4 years ago now it doesn’t help lighter runners?

the doped shoes wrote:

Two things:

1. They WEREN'T all in the same shoe.

2. That alpha-fly shoe with the air-pods can be specifically tweaked by the manufacturer. Should they choose, they could purposely selectively "deaden" its spring restitution characteristics in cases where they would want the shoe to underperform.

And owners of those shoes could unknowingly end up with "deadened" af's if they accidentally get a hole poked in the air-spring pods.