He ran 8:13 & 8;40 last yr. He's a year older with more work under his belt. They may be working him a bit hard, but I would guess that his next big race after this would be Arcadia, then the CA state meet....
He ran 8:13 & 8;40 last yr. He's a year older with more work under his belt. They may be working him a bit hard, but I would guess that his next big race after this would be Arcadia, then the CA state meet....
OXYRUNR wrote:
He ran 8:13 & 8;40 last yr. He's a year older with more work under his belt. They may be working him a bit hard, but I would guess that his next big race after this would be Arcadia, then the CA state meet....
His coach suggested he would be running some 5000 races too, I think. Could be wrong on that.
The thing about Nico is that he looks like he is redlining from the get-go every rep, every race. Even in the first 100 he looks like he is kicking in the final 100 of a mile race. Just his style I guess, but it looks stressful, even if he is actually relaxed.
If he can keep this form through spring, LV's 2-mile record is going down big time.
it wasn't a workout. it was a race.
Am I crazy or would this workout be pretty hard even for a 3:50 guy? If we think Nico is in about 4:00 shape, this seems super tough.
I ran 4:20 in HS and I just don't think I could have run 4:30, 2:16, 4:36, 2:15. Maybe his being endurance-focused makes the workout a bit more doable, though. He can hit reps closer to all-out without it thrashing him.
This workout is insane and shows Nico is extremely fit. He will for sure be close to the record and I'm guessing will have a good outdoor season. I also think he will improve in college but incrementally as compared to other stud HS runners.
He's running high mileage and crazy hard workouts, has done altitude camps, is probably doing all the small things, like getting blood tests, counting calories, taking supplements, ect. Although this isn't bad for Nico at this age the logic follows that when other HS studs start increasing mileage and bumping up intensity they will improve drastically, where as Nico will improve small amounts per year.
He will still be a multiple time All-American but I just see someone like Cole Sprout, or other runners who are doing more controlled stuff in HS passing them up when it comes to college and the professional level.
Who knows maybe he is the next Ritz and a talent that we haven't seen.
Running these fast 1600s feels like a mental trick...more than half the race to get him into a mental comfort zone when they go out fast at Millrose. Just not sure if the guy who puts the hammer down on his competitors solo and from the front needs the mental edge. I think he could slot it at the back of Millrose, turn his brain off and do just fine off of 800-1000 repeats.
Phasechange wrote:
He will still be a multiple time All-American but I just see someone like Cole Sprout, or other runners who are doing more controlled stuff in HS passing them up when it comes to college and the professional level.
Who knows maybe he is the next Ritz and a talent that we haven't seen.
Doing an altitude camp is a lot different than living at altitude, so he’ll have that built in as a way to improve further in Flagstaff the next few years. He’ll also have guys as good and better than him to train with. Plus I doubt he responds to super fast workouts as well as he would to more threshold work.
As for the workout if you’re going to go for a record you’ve got to put some big efforts in and there are simply no races in Socal right now so they went for a super hard workout. I’m not a big fan of chasing records in general, especially indoor records, but that’s up to him and his coaches to decide ultimately.
Young has the look of an international class distance runner whereas many other top HS studs simply do not. Guys run into weight problems just like girls do. Maybe it’s muscle that is the extra weight, but it often ends up being dead weight. Nico is a natural. He’s going to be successful at this sport for a long time if he stays motivated.
The problem is that it will trick him into believing that he can't do it since he was running all out to hit the times. It will be tough to recall this workout over and over for 10 days thinking about how it felt all out on the first rep.
Most 8 flat guys couldn't do it.
Holy positive splits, Batman!
I worry about his ability to close when he is practicing going out fast and fading.
Webb, by comparison, used to practice ending his reps like he would in a race (54 or faster for the last 400).
Caruso > D. Rose! wrote:
As for the workout if you’re going to go for a record you’ve got to put some big efforts in and there are simply no races in Socal right now so they went for a super hard workout. I’m not a big fan of chasing records in general, especially indoor records, but that’s up to him and his coaches to decide ultimately.
He could do a 1600/mile time trial, though, if that were the intent. His teammates could easily tow him him through 2:02/3:03 and he could let it rip from there.
I think the intent of this workout was pretty clear, though, it just feels unusual to run 3k pace for that long. If this is a one-off sort of thing, don't think it's a big deal.
I Think Brosan has a different approach when it come to kids getting ready for college training. He's a guy that firmly believes that "pushing the envelope" gets kids more ready for their early years in college so they can get adjusted quicker to harder workouts in college as opposed to a guy like Cole Sprout that doesn't really do workouts like Nico did recently and running way lower milage to be ready and have "fresh legs" for a big jump in college training. Every high school coach I know uses one of these two philosophies in regards to training and transitioning to a collegiate program. The philosophy Sean is using with Nico and Jace is something I consider a "high risk high reward" type deal, yes Nico can be a NCAA champion at NAU in the coming years and be on a Olympic team in the future, but also could be a possibility of him not improving to a NCAA champion type runner and "pushing the envelope" too much his senior year to chase high school national records. I believe that Nico is going to be a special one at NAU due to coach Smith and how he'll train him.
I can see both Nico Young and Cole Sprout be NCAA champ caliber good in college despite the vastly different training in high school years.
Easy to burn out or peak early with work like this but this certainly settles the question of whether they want to break Verzbicas's two mile record of 8:29 this year. They are training him to be ready for 4:14 pace for 3k-2M. Running on his own, maybe in some wind, at 4:10 1600 (=4:12 mile), 2:07, 4:15, 2:05, is not 4k of work at 3k pace, but rather 4800m, essentially 5000m at 3k pace (4:14/M is 13:12 5000m pace). Recall what he did in that fall workout, something like 7k on grass at 2:45/k=13:45 5000m pace. 7:53/13:30 this year would not surprise me at all.
The workout seemed a bit much. Talented as Nico is, in the grand scheme of things he is still a teenager and that volume and intensity would have challenged many Olympians.
Positive splits weren't a great sign. When Nico came through the first 8 in 2:03 when the goal was 4:14 pace I would have said, explicitly, "slow down a few" or "4 seconds fast." Those quick verbal cues are soooo important. "Stay relaxed" is a catchall any coach (or parent) can yell. 99% of the time it has the opposite effect.
Also, no one here has mentioned the fact that this weekend Nico is going to a 200m banked track he has never run on, unless I'm mistaken. Not a completely different ballgame but enough to give me pause. And the fact that he's running the Paul Tanui.
Gonna be an interesting one and I wish Nico the very best.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he breaks 4 in a mile this spring.
No “kid” should be red lining this much. This kid is going to fry himself. Only benefit of NAU for this kid will be pure aerobic development. Would not be surprised if it took a couple years to see success in college. More volume may keep him from doing this level of intensity , so may see an initial drop in fitness. In time his endurance will start giving new development in fitness and add in his ability to red line
In every video we see the race pace, gut buster workouts, but we never see much else. I wonder what the program is doing in terms of tempo's, easy days, long runs etc.. We also don't know how often they do these types of workouts. Would be interesting to see a complete view of the program before we judge.
Best of luck to him, he has once in a lifetime talent, like Jim Ryun, Lindgren, Webb, Ritzenhein, Hall.
On an Instagram q&a on their training, Brosnan said that Nico and Jace were running their easy days at 6:25-6:45 pace (if my memory is correct), slower on recovery days and long runs. It's probably still a little fast even for them, but it's certainly manageable.