Ndereba "Best", Radcliffe "Fastest"

This is such a common mistake...

List the races where Paula Radcliffe has done badly in the heat. Then look at the ones where she has done well... See my point?

The whole 'heat' debate started as a tentative explanation to her defeat in Athens... Yet, we know now that this was entirely due to other factors. I really cannot see what reasonable reasons you have to assume Paula Radcliffe does badly in the heat.

She does badly when she injured (unsurprisingly!) and she has a history of being beaten on the track in wc races (but I would have liked to see anyone stick with her in 2003!).

Anyway, as someone else states, this will all soon be resolved.

Who cares about Paula Radcliffe's Personal Best times.. can you show me an Olympic Gold or a World Championships Gold?

No.

So how can you declare her the best?

Wang Junxia- 8:06, 14:29, 29:31 is up there with Radcliffe.

ANSWER ME THIS QUESTION:

Who do you consider a better marathoner, Stefano Baldini or Sammy Korir??

Riddle me this.. history will forget Radcliffe, much like it has forgotten Peters, unless she wins a Gold in the Olympics. She is an also-ran as of now.

You people were so hype prior to Athens, and then when reality hit and you realized how over-rated Radcliffe was, you all cried like babies. You realized she could not out-run the world's best over the first 13.1 miles of the race. You act like she was destroying everyone before she dropped out, when in fact, SHE WAS GETTING DROPPED WHEN SHE DROPPED OUT.

Stop making excuses. And Chepkemei has similar PR's on the roads and so does Lornah Kiplagat, so Radcliffe's PR's do nothing for me.

A 2:10 guy can be better than a 2:08 guy. Happens all the time. The fastest runners do not always win.

Who cares about Radcliffe's PR's? I sure don't.

No Offense wrote:

How many Marathon World Titles does she have?

Miami Heat had the best regular season record last year were they the best team?

Yes, they were the best team over that 84 game span. Just as Radcliffe has been better than Nderaba in all but one head to head marathon

"a 2:10 guy can be better than a 2:08 guy. Happens all the time. The fastest runners do not always win"

invalid argument... not comparable...

Could a 2H05 guy be better than a 2H01 guy. If you can still answer yes to that one, then you might have a point.

I like the example of Tergat from above. Is he the best ever?

adiofahsjkfhjklasdjkf wrote:

Yes, they were the best team over that 84 game span. Just as Radcliffe has been better than Nderaba in all but one head to head marathon

So they were the best team last year? Yes or no will do.

As a body of work, Paula's many successful marathons have been run in ideal spring and fall conditions.

I know at least 3 times I have seen Ndereba run in hot conditions.

I just look at the history. Hopefully Paula will prove something in a couple of weeks.

Wang Juxia's times are better than Radcliffe's. However, they were set in the space of one season (not to mention the fact they are questionable for other reasons), and Juxia has not demonstrated any longevity similar to Radcliffe's.

What's more, Radcliffe's 2H15:25 should still probably be considered the better mark (according to equivalence tables at least).

Have you doubters ever run a marathon? It just seems plain obvious to me...

Vilamoura 2003 was run in the heat... I don't think Radcliffe did too badly either, winning by the biggest margin ever in a WM world championships...

Half marathon.

yes "HM" not "WM"

2:15 is out of this freaking world, plain and simple. Think Bubka and Michael Johnson. I don't care about championship record or Olympic medals... There cannot be any doubt that Radcliffe is the best female marathon runner ever. It isn't a one off freak performance either as her other 'thons demonstrate.

How many men in the States have run 2H15 this year?

World records + Olympic medals = The Best = Michael Johnson.

Excellent example.

What is Ndereba's wc and olympic tally, that she should be considered the best?

History will forget her? Wrong, wrong, wrong. She's only an also-ran if repeatedly slaughtering your supposed goddess of the marathon by a literal mile is being an also-ran. She has had one bad race at the marathon in six attempts. Tergat has had one win at the marathon. They're not even remotely comparable. Sammy Korir has not won any marathon that I know of, certainly not one against the world's best. He is irrelevant. A better comparison than Korir to Baldini would be Khannouchi to Baldini. You can argue this either way -- both won dramatic marathons against the world's best.

But Radcliffe is the best in the world right now, and is the definite favorite to win at Helsinki. Not that she's a lock -- anyone can show up strong on the day or have something go wrong. That's the nature of the marathon. But she is the favorite.

interesting, radcliffe is 8 wins and 8 losses against derartu tulu, who will be in the world championship marathon on august 14th, 8 days after radcliffe races tulus cousins the dibaba sisters.

"World records + Olympic medals = The Best = Michael Johnson."

Perfect example.

What makes Michael Johnson, Michael Johnson, is that HE SET HIS WORLD RECORDS AT THE OLYMPICS AND WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. MJ's :19.32 was LEGENDARY because it was at the Olympics, not at some Home Depot Invitational 200m.

In order for your example to be valid, it would be the equivalent for Radciffe running 2:15:25 at Athens against the best in the world, not in a mixed race on a perfect day with pacers.

NOW, if Radcliffe runs sub-2:18 in Helsinki and completely drops the field for the Gold, than she will be considered highly, but not until she wins Gold in Beijing. Till then she is a Khalid Khannouch, Paul Tergat, and Jim Peters in my book... not an Abebe Bikila. You can't argue that.

And I am a marathoner.

GR wrote:

Riddle me this.. history will forget Radcliffe, much like it has forgotten Peters, unless she wins a Gold in the Olympics. She is an also-ran as of now.

I would dispute your assertion about Peters, who's better known today Peters or Mimoun or Cabrera?

And in 20 years time, when Radcliffe's mark of 2H15 could still be standing as a world record, who will history remember? The current world record holder, or some woman who got silver in the Olympics?