Korir fan wrote:
That's the US debut record right?
Yes.
Korir fan wrote:
That's the US debut record right?
Yes.
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Do you think Kenyans are upset that Korir competes for the US? No they don't care. Americans shouldn't care who Parsons competes for, it's Germans that should be upset that he flies their flag.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! It's still not over!
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Piling on LRP wrote:
Yes, we should have a thread about this. This is an American website. Korir is American. He’s now one of the favorites for the trials.
Korir is more American than Parsons is German. Korir has lived in America for a decade or so. He trains in America. He went to college in America. Parsons was born, raised, schooled, lives, and trains in America. He’s an imported American competing for another country because he can’t make a US team.
Yes, he is one of the favorites and is going to take a spot of an American-born runner. No one is questioning Korir's career (started running at 20, worked extremely hard over 10 years to get where he is now, joined the army), his way to US citizenship or his personality.
What is the difference to Parsons and the problem? Superior genetics. Korir, just like Chelimo was born in an area of the world with superior genetics for distance running. THAT was his way to a US college/to the US (nothing wrong with it), he didn't randomly come to the US but he came because his talent for running was discovered in his home country, where running is extremely competitive and it was a great fit for him to attend a US college while he builds his base and develops as a runner.
Now we have more and more US-born runners losing their ability to compete at an Olympic or World level, because naturalized African's who are genetically superior are taking their spots. Yes, we can cheer for Korir, but on the other hand we have to be sad for people like Fauble, Brogan Austin, and many other marathoners that work just as hard but have to compete with these naturalized African-born athletes.
Parsons is abusing his dual-citizenship, but he never had superior genetics due to country of birth (don't get me wrong, all elites got superior genetics but not on the level of African's, especially in the marathon).
The problem is not the athletes we have now, but a potential trend in the future where the whole US marathon or 10k team could consist of runners who were not born in the US, but in Kenya and Ethopia. If our US-born runners realize they will never make a team, because suddenly there are dozen's of sub 2:04/2:05 African's with a US passport, it might become discouraging to pursue a career in the marathon.
But you are right, for now we should just cheer for Korir, he definitely earned it and had a fantastic run, I'm just mostly worried about the future if this trend continues and eventually gets out of control.
I don't know who this Phil character is or whether I agree with him in general but these are good points being made. We already have a mostly Kenyan squad for the US team at 5k and 10k. If you don't think that upsets Americans such as Rupp you weren't payin attention to USATF in Sacramento when Rupp assumed he'd win the 10 but finished off the team and stormed off. As Gault pointed out, wouldn't talk to reporters and was obviously torqued off at going from the clear #1 American in the event to 6th on a good day. All in 1 year. He did managed his way onto a World Cross team but since he's run cross the team has been nearly all WCAP (nearly because their entire roster hasn't seemed to be at USATF Cross an a single year but most of them are) and therefore B-list Kenyans. I'm not convinced this is any tragedy or should be stopped or changed but there certainly are guys who are now barely in the US top 10 in their preferred events that do have that opinion.
WTF??? wrote:
He's Kenyan! NOT American.
He immigrated legally, and acquired US citizenship. He's American. End of story.
It's not like he got his citizenship then kept it a secret, then ran for Kenya, and only now is running for the USA.
malmo wrote:
WTF??? wrote:
He's Kenyan! NOT American.
He immigrated legally, and acquired US citizenship. He's American. End of story.
It's not like he got his citizenship then kept it a secret, then ran for Kenya, and only now is running for the USA.
Also of note. Korir was not noted a runner with potential until he was already 20-years old in 2007. He was encouraged to attend an American University and he was accepted at Iona College as a 22-year old Freshman in 2009. He did not start to excel as a runner until the later years of college.
So, Korir, besides being a U.S. Citizen and a member of the U.S. Army, he is truly an American-born runner in terms of development of his skills.
Don't know your history, ... or your poetry
He also serves who only stand and waits. I will take Milton over some anonymous guy on a message board. In full:
When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one Talent which is death to hide
Lodged with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest He returning chide,
"Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?"
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies, "God doth not need
Either man's work or his own gifts. Who best
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state
Is kingly: thousands at his bidding speed,
And post o'er land and ocean without rest;
They also serve who only stand and wait.
O.K. that wrote:
malmo wrote:
He immigrated legally, and acquired US citizenship. He's American. End of story.
It's not like he got his citizenship then kept it a secret, then ran for Kenya, and only now is running for the USA.
Also of note. Korir was not noted a runner with potential until he was already 20-years old in 2007. He was encouraged to attend an American University and he was accepted at Iona College as a 22-year old Freshman in 2009. He did not start to excel as a runner until the later years of college.
So, Korir, besides being a U.S. Citizen and a member of the U.S. Army, he is truly an American-born runner in terms of development of his skills.
What? He was discovered as immense talent in Kenya, he was running a 14:22 5k in Iten at high altitude with absolutely minimal amount of training when he was 20. Colm O'Connell himself ("Godfather of Kenya runners") discovered him and supported his application for an athletic scholarship at Iona.
His initial performances in the US as freshman were weak (14 high, 33 low for 5k and 10k) and did in no way mach his raw talent and untapped potential as a runner. Like many immigrants, he had troubles adjusting to the life in NYC suburbs which was TOTALLY different than his previous life in Kenya - new language, weird food, no friends, different climate (it doesn't get very cold in Kenya), harder classes, more stress, much faster way of living, ...
One year later, in indoor 2011 he was already breaking NCAA records, like running 13:26 indoors.
Comparing him to American-born runners is simply wrong. Which American-born runner could run a 14:22 5k at 8000ft with minimal training in their first year of running? That is the talent of Kenyan runners, and why he dominated NCAA over many years despite having initial difficulties to settle in.
It’s still an awful attitude to have. He’s an American citizen. America is the melting pot of people from all over the world. You can blame genetics or the shoes or whatever but there are Americans with great genetics and the same shoes as well. Seems you’re bitter that he’s bumping your beloved Brogan Austin off the team. Brogan is a 2:12 guys from CIM last year. There are over a dozen guys faster than him. He won’t make the US team.
You also keep saying “we” but you aren’t American.
American citizens don't dope in Kenya
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
O.K. that wrote:
Also of note. Korir was not noted a runner with potential until he was already 20-years old in 2007..
What? He was discovered as immense talent in Kenya, he was running a 14:22 5k in Iten at high altitude with absolutely minimal amount of training when he was 20. .
Please learn to READ.
Stop this wrote:
The Cold Truth wrote:
So what? He lost by 2:50 to a guy not wearing cheater shoes and to top it all off he’s neither American born nor raised. I guess this means that he may qualify for the Olympics for a country he’s only been in for a few years but at the end of the day this performance isn’t exactly exceptional.
Posts like this are so annoying. “Neither American born nor raised”. Stop with this crap. Who cares? I’m not the kind of guy that gets on his knees for military guys thinking they deserve some kind of respect automatically just because they chose to do a job, but Korir joined the army and was willing to fight for the country that he was “neither born nor raised” and deserves to at least represent us
Korir joined the army for the opportunities it provided; not to fight. Don't make him out to be some uber patriot.
Pauly Shore was also a water purification specialist in the hit movie In the Army Now.
O.K. that wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
What? He was discovered as immense talent in Kenya, he was running a 14:22 5k in Iten at high altitude with absolutely minimal amount of training when he was 20. .
Please learn to READ.
My point was that if he can start running as 20-year old guy and immediately become a runner classified as "high potential" in one of the most competitive running countries in the world, that he has significant genetic advantages over runners born in the US.
You say in terms of development we can consider him a US-born runner, because he only did minimal training in Kenya - well, he did train there for 1-2 years which I agree, is nothing compared to the 10+ years he did in the US, but the difference is the GENETICS he has since birth that allow him to perform at these extremely high levels.
Look at the top 8 US marathoners of all-time - 5 of them were born in East Africa, and the 3 that weren't are Rupp - Ritz and Hall, which were all connected to questionable projects/coaches in their careers.
And as I posted before, I mainly want to prevent marathoning or T&F to turn into a sport were more and more countries offer citizenship to East African runners for athletic reasons. Or we might end up watching an Olympic marathon with 30 East Africans running for different countries...
Both of you are idiots.
I disagree that not being born/raised in the USA does not matter. It matters a great deal, but not for all the politically charged douchebag reasons that you are fighting about.
It matters because the USA is a nation of fat people who drive everywhere and enjoy sports like baseball and football. It matters because the food in the USA is uber-processed and unhealthy. It matters because almost everyone with athletic talent in the USA gravitates to sports that people will pay them to do (distance running is not one of those sports). Becoming a beast runner in that environment is way more challenging than doing it elsewhere. Overcoming culture is half the battle. Korir did not have to overcome a local culture that was toxic to distance running. As others have noted, people who grew up in his culture have run sub 2:00 now and routinely run sub 2:05. I, like others, am not impressed.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
O.K. that wrote:
Please learn to READ.
My point was that if he can start running as 20-year old guy and immediately become a runner classified as "high potential" in one of the most competitive running countries in the world, that he has significant genetic advantages over runners born in the US.
You say in terms of development we can consider him a US-born runner, because he only did minimal training in Kenya - well, he did train there for 1-2 years which I agree, is nothing compared to the 10+ years he did in the US, but the difference is the GENETICS he has since birth that allow him to perform at these extremely high levels.
Look at the top 8 US marathoners of all-time - 5 of them were born in East Africa, and the 3 that weren't are Rupp - Ritz and Hall, which were all connected to questionable projects/coaches in their careers.
And as I posted before, I mainly want to prevent marathoning or T&F to turn into a sport were more and more countries offer citizenship to East African runners for athletic reasons. Or we might end up watching an Olympic marathon with 30 East Africans running for different countries...
If the 30 best runners run in the Olympics and slower guys don't get in you can simply not watch. You are free to watch local event with slower whites only.
Rumor mill is that Stanley Kebenei will be debuting at the Olympic Marathon Trials. He, like Korir is monstrous on the roads. ADP and WCAP will send 2 or 3 guys on the marathon team.
Leonard Korir
Stanley Kebenei
Elkanah Kibet, Augustus Maiyo, Haron Lagat, Samuel Kosgei, Girma Mecheso
Don’t forget other Kenyan born athlete
Bernard Lagat
The men’s marathon trials are WIDE open! It’s gonna be fun to watch for a change!
Great run by Lenny! Whether people on here want to belittle his accomplishments because of where he was born, the fact is that he's now in pole position to make the Olympic marathon team and should have some seriously fast marathons in his future. He's always been a talent at 10k and the half but now that he's had such a stellar debut the roads should be his main focus.
What genes make Kenyans genetically superior? You don't know because no one has such information and if you don't know that and no one knows that, then you have no right to say that they are genetically superior.
Is there some secret to trying to read LRC on a smart phone? I wouldn’t think LRC would be trying to drive mobile readers away, but yet they do. Either they’re incompetent or sadists.