Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending October 6, 2019

I assume AJ went auto lap as KM can get confusing when trying to do pace math while running at race speed.

What’s the margin of error of human error placing the markers vs garmin? Maybe not in a top notch WMM like Berlin but say a race like Indy or any mid major town race.

drcrusher: Looks like a very good week, and I envy the need for long sleeves.OR: 75 miles is badass on a bad ass. Crummy is crummy, but pain is a warning. I'm rooting for your speedy recovery, pun intended.Smoove: It's very cool to see you making progress and enjoying some pain-free mileage. Yeah, I was surprised at the consistent splits cuz I didn't look at my watch at all after I settled down following the aggressive start. I DO like the way the splits and HR data line up directly and organically, stable while the splits were stable and picking up when I picked up the pace a bit. Not a fast race, but I feel like I did it "right."Pappy:

"another month and I'll torture you for this."

This sentiment is a good sign!

sub6:00 Long runs are overrated ;) You'll have a great day at Chicago!

darkwave: You can reference my comment to Smoove about how the "race by feel" attempt felt. As for doing it again: depends on the situation, the goals etc. I went out to race people, so I kept my eye on the people. If I'm going to race the clock for a PR, I imagine I'll want to keep an eye on the watch. As for mojo, it was more like "slowjo" but it's where I'm at for now.

Actually where I'm at is still at work...

runrincerepeat wrote:

I assume AJ went auto lap as KM can get confusing when trying to do pace math while running at race speed.

What’s the margin of error of human error placing the markers vs garmin? Maybe not in a top notch WMM like Berlin but say a race like Indy or any mid major town race.

Thanks OR. Striving for beastly.

R3- yeah, but you don’t need to do math on the fly at all...If you want to see GPS pace/mile, leave your watch units setting in miles but turn off auto lap, take manual splits every 5k (if there are no mile markers), and know beforehand what 5k split is needed. (Or km pace if you want more splits). You can still leave overall time and overall distance on another screen too if you want to A/B it and get a split at the half or whatever.

It depends on the course. I like when races have their markers painted on the road in addition to the signs. But NYRR races have definitely had km and mile marks off, even Chicago marathon I remember the 40k split was definitely slightly off. Philly is notoriously iffy early on in the race.

At the very least, if you’re taking manual splits you’ve got two data points to compare.

Ahhhh yeah good point .. put it in KM but leave it on Min per mile .... I would just never remember to lap it!

Also I never have ran a race with mile markers I dont think.... its seriously bush league around here and never ran a race outside of the area

Stat - Thanks for the kind words. I was really happy with the splits, definitely one of the most even races I have ever run (5:28, 5:24, 5:30, 4:30 (last .1)). I think the 4 mile tempos I have been doing every Thursday have been really beneficial (props to RunnerSam for suggesting these early in the summer). I think they really prepared me to keep an even pace and suffer. For everyone else, I've been doing those every week for the past 8 weeks or so, 4 miles at 5:50-6:00. They felt comfortable, but not easy especially at the end. Also, the weather was perfect... cool weather is like EPO after the summer we had. Also, chalk up another person who has crushed a PR two or so weeks after the Michigan workout... This race felt easy compared to that workout.

RunGuy Midwest - You got it. 3rd came in early July (11th). After she was born, the next two weeks were basically 20 mile weeks, but subsequently, have not had a week below 50 miles. It's been the best string of training I've put together ever. The youngest is a good luck charm.

I must say, the PR was gratifying and a lot of hard work. Costco with 3 kids in the afternoon was much more taxing, both physically and mentally.

RRR - That was a good long run/long tempo and many many miles now.

Stone - Looking promising and still a lot of time left...stay patient.

JQ - BOOM! Well run race. Your PRs make a lot more sense now. A 56:24 10miler and 4:38 mile but only 16:50 5k looked like you needed to race a 5k to me. Still a lot ahead for you. (And in your defense for the 4x2mi - your last weekend race was twice as long as mine and I wasn't offroading.)

Dr.C - Agree that you should feel good about where you are. Looks promising.

OR - Heal up! Priority #1 or that one can dog you for a long time.

Smoove - Best 20 mile week I've seen in a long time.

Pappy - You're really starting to come along now. Great to see you back at it all in style.

Sub 6 - Sounds like promising injury progress. Will definitely have the tracker loaded up this weekend.

DW - Man that half-full combo really exentuates the taper time in a way that makes me feel like I'm running out of time before Indy.

RS - Belated congrats to you and your ex-girlfriend on the nuptials. I think this is the first I've seen 'the wife' from you anyway...and our time on these boards definitely goes back before even 'the fiance.'

Thoughtsleader - Sorry, have you mentioned which marathon you're running? Looking forward to seeing that sub3.

Napper - Good luck in Chicago. Pound that zinc and vitamin C even if they're only implied to help immunity.

RGMw - Also good luck in Chicago. That free 312 at the finish line will be oh so satisfying.

LANC - We all knew it was coming soon but great to get that monkey off the back. Congrats man. Great race. Looks like you might want to tie that right shoe a little tighter next time?

SLO - Beastly.

Cocoon - Great race and the speed up when you feel like quitting is a great sign of mental toughness. Have you been reading AJ's article from last week?

GPS/Manual Splits/Miss-markered - Chicago buildings really screwed with my watch last year, claiming I ran a full 27 miles. Luckily I was manual splitting from the get go so I had a pretty good idea where I was without GPS.

All the comments.... GT – Nice mileage, and those look like some epic workouts. 4X2mi, 2x4mi… you crazy man.RRR – Holy mileage Batman! That Saturday 17 is dang impressive. Good luck in the half this coming weekend. Crush it.Coach Jeff – Great week, great race, great race report. I laughed when you said, “after 7km in a 10km race, there are only 4 kms remaining”. I mean, what is that all about? How is that “normal”?Stone – Good to see you back in full, looks like fitness comes around pretty quickly for you, which is awesome. That 6x1mi workout looks really solid.Mrs. Stone – Hope that hammy gets back and isn’t it always that case that one little niggle leads to 8 others. jq – amazing! What an epic time and huge PR! Congrats man! You’ll be sub-16 in no time. aj – I love your takeaways, especially training without a written plan, which is how I’ve always done it. I like being flexible. I do have some semblance of structure, T/Th are workouts (usually), and Su is a long run. But those days can be off by 1, depending on schedule and how I’m feeling, not to mention weather. When doing a JD plan in the spring, I really felt hamstrung by the structure, found myself pushing against it, and think it didn’t work out as well as it could have because of that. Some people thrive off of it though. Also, that post last week with the article about the Runner’s mind really resonated and was a great read. I need to look at that before each interval workout I do. It was inspiring.Drcrusher – awesome week of mileage for you! 73 with a rest day?! Excited to see you crush Philly.OR – solid week considering the pain in the butt. Get that fixed. Don’t let it become a big thing. Smoove – Gotta love that back to running feeling. Nothing like it. Glad you’re feeling good again. Pappy - Love the “another month and I’ll torture you for this”. Will be great to read in a month when you say something to him like “Oh, if I’d known you were there, I would have… nah.. I wanted you to feel the pain”. Also are you keeping up the scoreboard now? I’d love to list my new PR… 16:49 age 36.Sub6 – Chicago is gonna be fun. Good luck!Darkwave – man that was a week of work. Feeling good during a marathon build does sound like an oxymoron, but it can’t be a bad thing.Rucker – dirt roads, I need to find me some of those. Coyote – Nice race – 5000ft elevation knocks me on my butt for a few days. Living there must be great when you get down to sea level. GNR – Awesome race. I wouldn’t be too upset with a 5:17pace 10.1 miler in heat and humidity. Amazing run.RunnerSam – Good seeing you and the Mrs. on Saturday. Know it wasn’t your day, but was a good race, and for you coming off of sickness and a workout on Thursday, can’t be upset. Guess it’s time to focus on the marathon? Goodness it’s closer than I thought. BTW, you going to Delaware for the XC race this year? Maybe we can get a decent crew from the club to head down there. Always a “fun” race…ThoughtsLeader – nice week and you should be confident. Napper – Find a surgical mask, wear it everywhere. Just kidding, but hope that sickness stays away from you. Feel like it’s just colds going around right now though. At least by me.RunGuy – Throw down in the Windy City. Go for it man, you got it.Stat – Solid week of “getting back into shape”. Sigh… your easy days have me catching my breath at my desk.Slo – 15:49… amazing man! PRing a 5k in marathon training must be a thing. Maybe I should look into this whole marathon thing…Cocoon – Great week and great race. Really solid close, your goal of 1:25 is not far off.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

LANC - We all knew it was coming soon but great to get that monkey off the back. Congrats man. Great race. Looks like you might want to tie that right shoe a little tighter next time?

Good eye. I forgot this fun detail. About ¾ of a mile to go, I feel it loosen up. I double knotted the dang thing to. Either way, I wasn’t letting an untied shoe stop me from the goal. But yea, first time I’ve ever had a shoe untie during a 5k.

Hi everyone! After lurking on letsrun for a year or so I stumbled upon these threads and found them extremely informational and motivating. Hoping you'll let me participate, though I might be the slowest one here (and I hope to change that).

M36, 6'1" 160

Background is a decade of on and off running, including several undertrained marathons and ultras. Thanks in large part to this website I'm starting to get the basics of smarter training, and I'm currently focused on 1) running almost everyday, 2) getting 1-2 workouts and a long run in each week and 3) increasing weekly mileage.

Applicable PRs: 19:45 5K (July time trial), 1:38 HM (November 2018, training was unremarkable at best)

Short-term goals: 19:30 5K, 1:35 HM (both November 2019 races)

M: Easy 5 miles

Tu: 1 mile warm up, 3 miles @ 7:05 avg, 1 mile cool down

W: Easy 3.25 miles

Th: 1 mile warm up, 6 x 1K (ranged from 4:05-4:10), 1 mile cool down

F: Off

Sa: Easy 10 miles

Su: Easy 3.25 miles + 8 strides

Total: 33.5 miles

Welcome! There is no to slow for this thread etc. the one thing we all seem to have in common is the want to get faster or race to our potential , whatever point we are in life.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Cocoon - Great race and the speed up when you feel like quitting is a great sign of mental toughness. Have you been reading AJ's article from last week?

GT - Thanks. I have read AJ's post from last week. Peter Bromka writes great inspirational stuff on Medium. I have not nailed down the 'staying in the moment' aspect though, except at the start and end of a race. In the middle stages, I am mostly a deal-maker - example a) After 6 miles, just 5K to the 10 mile mark, and then you will see crowds (I know there is no crowd until last mile); or b) One more mile at this pace, and then we will chill out the next mile (know that I will come up with some other ruse in the next mile); or c) tel myself that just 8 laps of the track left at the 10 mile marker (when I know that there is atleast 13 more laps of the track left to finish a half marathon)

Don't know if I am articulating this well enough. Basically. I lie to myself constantly, and my brain tends to believe the lies more often than not :). I am assuming that a lot of you play similar mind-games.

I haven’t posted here in awhile, but i I am trying to OTQ @ Richmond.

Outside Runner- what is your goal time?

I often find myself translating something like "still 2km left to go!" into "that's only one lap around Dahu Lake... that's not even a warmup!" I also handle time better than distance; for some reason, my brain is more accepting of "hold this for 12 minutes" than it is of "hold this for 3km." Brains be funny.

Sometimes I think. This sucks but what would you rather be doing instead? Answer is always nothing else.

Hey RunnerGirl, great to hear from ya! I ran 2:46:13 at last year’s Richmond, and was shooting for 2:40-ish this year...until my hamstring and piriformis started hurting a few weeks ago. So, I am not sure how to answer your question. If it gets better, I guess closer to the original goal, and if it does not, closer to 2:45, I suppose. Fingers are crossed...let me know if you want to meet up at the start.

Coach Stone has assured me that my fitness is strong, and I just need to get this leg issue straightened out...

When all the silly little Jedi mind tricks fail me. I just resort to counting my foot strikes to 4. 1 2 3 4 in the hopes of making it 1234.

I never raced an actual half or full marathon, dang near raced more than a few 90 minute runs. I always thought of them like a sauna. Saunas are hot as heck and are actually miserable. Jump in one though and you just relax and can pretty much meditate riding the line.

GT and rrr showdown is coming along nicely. Two big workouts apiece, looking good.

Coach Jeff: Great racing! I'd say you nailed it running by feel. Splits are amazing.

JQ: Congrats on a huge PR. That is really something under that mileage load.

Sub6: Best of luck in Chicago. Lotta quick miles in there at least, that ought to get you pretty far.

CM: Great tune-up, always impressed with the altitude.

GNR: Nice 10 miler. Was it supposed to be 10 or 10.1

Lanc: Alright man, congrats!

slo- More PRs, fantastic! And glad to hear the hip has come along.

cocoon: Great half! Especially being sick, way to fight through it during the race. Very tough.

It's hard to keep up, even on the first page I need a pen and paper to keep track of all the great work everyone is doing!

Gordon T, big week and time trial

RRR sets mileage PR

Coach Jeff nice 10K

Stone and Mrs. Stone - packing in the miles

JQ- congrats on the 5KPR, getting fast!

dc crusher good miles

OR - as usual racking them up (sorry I'm not doing Richmond next month, but good luck!)

Smoove - encouraging to be running consistently again

Pappy solid - and those years of running with your kids are great, enjoy it!

Sub 6 - good luck at Chicago!

And I'm not ever through yet! You guys are keeping it real.

hoggy jobber wrote:

Short-term goals: 19:30 5K, 1:35 HM (both November 2019 races)

Welcome to the thread.

We're in the same general ballpark... I'll be looking for a 1:31-1:32 on Nov 3. Let me know if there's anything I can do for ya.

LancRunner, I'm sorry I have not kept up with TDR's leader board. When I said I would try I had a lot more free time at work. Anymore, I could probably work over a few hours everyday and still be swamped. I didn't realize I was going to be given a project that is larger than I thought and not qualified for.

In the mean time, if people want to keep the leader board alive it might be best to just copy and paste it while changing their own accomplishments.