Hahaha, that made me laugh, but seriously - many people would have gone beserk in his situation. He must have some kind of inner calm in order to have kept competing for so long in this dirty sport.
Hahaha, that made me laugh, but seriously - many people would have gone beserk in his situation. He must have some kind of inner calm in order to have kept competing for so long in this dirty sport.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coevett wrote:
There is absolutely nothing to criticize him for here :
https://twitter.com/nickwillis/status/1180546595663880203Nick stating what is obvious. But in the virtuous halls of Letsrun, professional athletes with a distinguished record are not allowed to say things like that.
Thank you Nick for speaking up and telling the truth.
Facts:
Join NOP and have dramatic improvement.
Your coach becomes a CONVICTED drug cheat.
Willis already used his free pass with the whole internet porn thing
Disappointing wrote:
Dril wrote:
Dude. Get out of my thread and go back to yours.
Questioning athletes’ performances who have not been proven guilty of cheating is a really sh1tty habit of pros on Twitter and in interviews. It’s bad for the sport and is real salty cry baby behavior.
If he’s so sure her performance is suspect he should get off his soap box, go out IRL and do something. Go make a difference and stop whining on the internet. At minimum call her out to her face.
This is a totally pathetic statement/post by Willis. These accusations/insinuations by him and many others, here and elsewhere on social media, without any proof are cowardly and weak.
How is Willis to blame here? Hassan is the best athlete Salazar has produced, Mile WR, she likely could have won the 800m to 10,000m. If her coach is dirty, how is she not? Or maybe Al Sal shouldn't have been charged, but we know he is no good.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Lizardo wrote:
I can't believe he is catching so much heat for stating something so obvious (well, I can believe it, but what I mean is it seems kind of crazy).
I mean, if any athlete has their coach suspended for 4 years for doping violations, then that athlete goes out and runs one of the craziest doubles of all-time - doesn't just win, but wins outrageously - isn't it kind of a no-brainer for people to be suspicious of that athlete? I don't give a rat's ass about Sifan Hassan one way or the other, but I'm personally suspicious of her purely based on simple reasoning skills.
And I don't know Nick Willis at all. But supposing he is clean, put yourself in his shoes. How would YOU feel in the late stages of a long career during which your successes were always limited by dopers? If nothing else, this is a guy who got bronze (at first) in an Olympic 1500m in which both runners ahead of him were later popped for doping. Doesn't the guy have a right to a little skepticism?
One does not justify the other. Hassan was always really good. Salazar is a driven sketchy personality which does not mean Hassan has done anything wrong. I just think it is pissy to attack Hassan in this way.
C'mon man...Hassan hasn't always been that good. Her performance at Doha is reminiscent of those crazy Chinese performances in the 90s (see Wang Junxia) or the Russian doubles (1500/800) at the 76 & 96 Olympics. I thought you knew a little something about running?
Subway Surfers wrote:
Disappointing wrote:
This is a totally pathetic statement/post by Willis. These accusations/insinuations by him and many others, here and elsewhere on social media, without any proof are cowardly and weak.
How is Willis to blame here? Hassan is the best athlete Salazar has produced, Mile WR, she likely could have won the 800m to 10,000m. If her coach is dirty, how is she not? Or maybe Al Sal shouldn't have been charged, but we know he is no good.
+1
Wick Nillis wrote:
Willis already used his free pass with the whole internet porn thing
Tired crack. And irrelevant. Of course no one on Letsrun is into the "internet porn thing".
This defense of Nike, NOP, Salazar and their athletes is getting ridiculous. LR is the ONLY community that is in favor of these organizations/coaches/athletes and doesn't realize that something is not right with these performances.
Willis is ABSOLUTELY right. He has been in the pro circus for over a decade and knows the sport in and out. Yet many LR users don't want to realize that there IS suspicious stuff going on in some training groups/environments to boost performance. I'm starting to wonder how many of these posters are part of Nike's legal/community team trying to improve/keep their reputation as a honest company competing in elite sports.
Hassan could have won ANYTHING from 800m to the marathon in these WC (many people here don't even realize that her 1:05:15 half when she was in worse shape is already a 2:16:30 performance, now she is in 1:03/1:04 (=WR) shape and could obviously run fast in a marathon with the stuff she is on).
Could Rudisha win the marathon? Ok, let's lower the stakes. Could he run a sub 59 half, which is similar to Hassan's performance? Could Cheruiyout/Lewandowski run a sub 27 10k? Again, equivalent. This range, that she could all display on a single day is just absolutely unbelievable. It goes against everything we know about FT:ST muscle fiber ratio and "training specifity". Bekele, who has a great range, still has nothing like Hassan. His best 1500 is only 3:32 (nothing compared to his 5k-marathon achievements), and NOW, in peak marathon shape, he likely couldn't even run 3:35 anymore.
So the only argument you can make is that women are superior, and can be world best from 800 to marathon simultaneously. NO! Doesn't work! Because Hassan is the ONLY one with this range. Do you think Muir can go even 1:07 in a half? Or Chepngetich sub 4 in a 1500m? No, you are EITHER good at 1500-5000, OR at HM-marathon, but NOT at both. Hassan is everything - 1:56, 3:51 (without max effort), 14:22, 1:05:15 (HM 1 year ago when she was only in 3:56 shape). If this doesn't raise the eyebrows of even the last LR "no one is doping! no positive tests!" defender, then I don't know what would do.
Red Flag Alert! wrote:
Coevett wrote:
There is absolutely nothing to criticize him for here
That you stick up for him is a HUGE red flag! Willis should be investigated right now!
Agreed. I always believed Willis to be a clean performer, but Coevett's support means that we need to demand that Willis be tested every day. We know that cheaters can beat the test and some believe Willis is a cheater (not me, but others are raising mucho doubts) but it is the only way for him to regain respectability. Sifan has already demanded she be tested daily. There should also be deep bio-marker testing on Coe and Ovett to determine their drug backgrounds, but they will probably hide behind medical privacy shield like Simpson the doper.
Les wrote:
Funny even though he raced him many times and was cheated out of higher medal placings by him, Nick Willis never said anything similar about the now-banned Asbel Kiprop.
After Kiprop was busted Nick said the fans "should stop watching this dirty sport". Plain enough for you?
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
This defense of Nike, NOP, Salazar and their athletes is getting ridiculous. LR is the ONLY community that is in favor of these organizations/coaches/athletes and doesn't realize that something is not right with these performances.
Willis is ABSOLUTELY right. He has been in the pro circus for over a decade and knows the sport in and out. Yet many LR users don't want to realize that there IS suspicious stuff going on in some training groups/environments to boost performance. I'm starting to wonder how many of these posters are part of Nike's legal/community team trying to improve/keep their reputation as a honest company competing in elite sports.
Hassan could have won ANYTHING from 800m to the marathon in these WC (many people here don't even realize that her 1:05:15 half when she was in worse shape is already a 2:16:30 performance, now she is in 1:03/1:04 (=WR) shape and could obviously run fast in a marathon with the stuff she is on).
Could Rudisha win the marathon? Ok, let's lower the stakes. Could he run a sub 59 half, which is similar to Hassan's performance? Could Cheruiyout/Lewandowski run a sub 27 10k? Again, equivalent. This range, that she could all display on a single day is just absolutely unbelievable. It goes against everything we know about FT:ST muscle fiber ratio and "training specifity". Bekele, who has a great range, still has nothing like Hassan. His best 1500 is only 3:32 (nothing compared to his 5k-marathon achievements), and NOW, in peak marathon shape, he likely couldn't even run 3:35 anymore.
So the only argument you can make is that women are superior, and can be world best from 800 to marathon simultaneously. NO! Doesn't work! Because Hassan is the ONLY one with this range. Do you think Muir can go even 1:07 in a half? Or Chepngetich sub 4 in a 1500m? No, you are EITHER good at 1500-5000, OR at HM-marathon, but NOT at both. Hassan is everything - 1:56, 3:51 (without max effort), 14:22, 1:05:15 (HM 1 year ago when she was only in 3:56 shape). If this doesn't raise the eyebrows of even the last LR "no one is doping! no positive tests!" defender, then I don't know what would do.
POD
Armstronglivs wrote:
Les wrote:
Funny even though he raced him many times and was cheated out of higher medal placings by him, Nick Willis never said anything similar about the now-banned Asbel Kiprop.
After Kiprop was busted Nick said the fans "should stop watching this dirty sport". Plain enough for you?
Why does this Willis guy get to be the moral arbiter of the sport? Hasn't done anything to make me trust him or be a fan.
El Keniano wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
After Kiprop was busted Nick said the fans "should stop watching this dirty sport". Plain enough for you?
Why does this Willis guy get to be the moral arbiter of the sport? Hasn't done anything to make me trust him or be a fan.
How about he's a fine athlete who cares about the state of the sport?
Armstronglivs wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Why does this Willis guy get to be the moral arbiter of the sport? Hasn't done anything to make me trust him or be a fan.
How about he's a fine athlete who cares about the state of the sport?
And you know this how?
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
I'm starting to wonder how many of these posters are part of Nike's legal/community team trying to improve/keep their reputation as a honest company competing in elite sports.
I think most people on Letsrun drastically overestimate how much the major shoe companies, including and especially Nike, care about the Letsrun demographic. This crowd is people who could watch Phil Knight murder a puppy on live television and keep wearing the Pegasus because it feels .5% better than the Saucony Ride. Our buying habits aren’t malleable and aren’t dependent on brand imaging. No sensible company would waste time or attention doing what you’re implying; they’re more likely fluffing their own reviews on their own site or paying the people who write shoe reviews on YouTube.
Hassan could have won ANYTHING from 800m to the marathon in these WC (many people here don't even realize that her 1:05:15 half when she was in worse shape is already a 2:16:30 performance, now she is in 1:03/1:04 (=WR) shape and could obviously run fast in a marathon with the stuff she is on).
Could Rudisha win the marathon? Ok, let's lower the stakes. Could he run a sub 59 half, which is similar to Hassan's performance? Could Cheruiyout/Lewandowski run a sub 27 10k? Again, equivalent. This range, that she could all display on a single day is just absolutely unbelievable. It goes against everything we know about FT:ST muscle fiber ratio and "training specifity". Bekele, who has a great range, still has nothing like Hassan. His best 1500 is only 3:32 (nothing compared to his 5k-marathon achievements), and NOW, in peak marathon shape, he likely couldn't even run 3:35 anymore.
So the only argument you can make is that women are superior, and can be world best from 800 to marathon simultaneously. NO! Doesn't work! Because Hassan is the ONLY one with this range. Do you think Muir can go even 1:07 in a half? Or Chepngetich sub 4 in a 1500m? No, you are EITHER good at 1500-5000, OR at HM-marathon, but NOT at both. Hassan is everything - 1:56, 3:51 (without max effort), 14:22, 1:05:15 (HM 1 year ago when she was only in 3:56 shape). If this doesn't raise the eyebrows of even the last LR "no one is doping! no positive tests!" defender, then I don't know what would do.
It seems like your argument centers on her having impossible range, but given what we know about differences in men and women’s reaction to training stimulus, I’m more inclined to believe crazy range for a woman than a man.
El Keniano wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
How about he's a fine athlete who cares about the state of the sport?
And you know this how?
Willis is white and from down under. That's enough for some here to consider him automatically clean.
Hftgg wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
And you know this how?
Willis is white and from down under. That's enough for some here to consider him automatically clean.
Got you. They forget how, not long ago, Radcliffe used to be seen as the loudest voice against doping, Every athlete that ever got busted spoke out against doping at some point. I true clean ones don't feel the need to prove themselves or pull such stunts.
Nick wasn’t even the best recruit at Michigan and then suddenly became top 3 in the whole world???
Armstronglivs wrote:
Coevett wrote:
There is absolutely nothing to criticize him for here :
https://twitter.com/nickwillis/status/1180546595663880203Nick stating what is obvious. But in the virtuous halls of Letsrun, professional athletes with a distinguished record are not allowed to say things like that.
If Nick wants to be captain obvious, why doesn't he bring Rupp and Mo into thew conversation ansd questions everything they have achieved in thew careers. They are much bigger names than Hassan. Guess it's easier for him to pick on a little woman!
typicalkiwi wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Nick stating what is obvious. But in the virtuous halls of Letsrun, professional athletes with a distinguished record are not allowed to say things like that.
If Nick wants to be captain obvious, why doesn't he bring Rupp and Mo into thew conversation ansd questions everything they have achieved in thew careers. They are much bigger names than Hassan. Guess it's easier for him to pick on a little woman!
I’d love to see him call out Centro. But they're buddies so Willis has his blinders on.