Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 9/22/19

Some comments from the first few pages...

Stone - I second (or third) the thanks for moving back to miles. It's ingrained in us Americans... even though the engineer in me wishes we were all on the metric system... 10's, 100's, 1000's all make more sense. In track, in building, and in life. Oz, lbs, feet... we just HAD to be different. Training wise, looks like a solid week, with some good M efforts in there. Excited to see your build to CIM, I'm taking notes, as I am PONDERING but not committing to thinking of a marathon next year...

Slo - Phew... 110 miles, sick week. Those workouts look strong. Your build has been something really fun to keep an eye on. Impressive stuff.

GT - Another solid week. 2k's suck. We had a discussion on 1k's/1200's before, I never minded those... I agree with dw that there is something about that extra lap after 4 that just demoralizes and sucks the life out of you... maybe I'll do a workout with 2k's soon... I like a mental challenge. Congrats on the mileage record. I also don't think it's any coincidence that the next poster was...

RRR - Is it a mental game to post right after GT and up him on mileage? Solid week by you as well. The Ruckus in Railroad City will be something to watch.

Pappy - Mileage is coming up... fitness will follow.

Mrs. Stone - excited to see what is in store...

JQ - as usual, epic week with mileage, and that workout is insane. Your journey has been excellent. And 3000 miles is nothing to sneeze at... dang. Still 3 months left... shooting for 4k?!

Niceguy - Great week and nice long run.

rucker - I could never get into the trails... think I just have weak ankles from years of turned ankles playing basketball. I would definitely explode an ankle or two. But it sounds like it fits on you. I was just talking to someone about trail running and how it is a completely different sport than road racing... just look at the legs. To keep with the tree analogy, stick-like (me) vs. tree trunks (you)

GB - Get that ankle right. Good that it wasn't too bad it seems... those high ankle sprains can take weeks to heal sometimes, so sounds like you avoided that.

Thoughts - Feel better, colds can zap me for days as well. Just getting in some easy mileage is a win.

aj - Oh hello taper. Take it to the Krauts ( i can say that, german-decent... right?).

OR - Awesome week, with great mileage. Good to hear the hammy isn't overly injured. Especially b/c you just ran a 20 miler on it. Ridiculous! Can we get some of that cool weather back now? What is it with the 90's and humidity coming back, sounds like today might be the last one.

Sub17 - Nice race! and well done!!!

3283823 - Sometimes when it rains, it pours. Take this as an excuse to get better in all aspects (knee and sickness)

Smoove - Good to hear you're on the mend and that the bursitis seems to have subsided more. That's a great side effect of a PF surgery... haha.

drcrusher - Nice week, I know quite a few training for Philly. I'm praying for perfect weather and throwing good vibes. It's still a ways out, but it looks like your training is SERIOUS. I have no doubt that given your drive, you'll smash your goals. PR time.

RunGuy - kudos on the mileage PR! That will undoubtedly pay dividends in Chi-town.

Coyote - Nice week, sometimes, the weeks that we don't feel great, and just "get the work done" are the most important, because it's so easy on those weeks to not do the work. Way to persevere.

darkwave - Travelling stinks for training. I can commiserate. Sounds like a monster day of meetings and travel, can't imagine finding time to run at that point. Still a good week considering the roadblocks put in front of you.

Sub 6 - Impressive. Can i really say anything else... dang.

BHV - Nice workouts and solid mileage - 2 hours at 6:51 (160 bpm) has to feel DANG good...

DietBacon - That 11 miler... phew. I'm tired just looking at it. Very impressive workout.

Coach - Pushing yourself to the limit, while not feeling well... I don't condone or advocate for it, but can't deny how mentally tough you have to be. Feeling off, slowing down... and then saying "F IT, LETS GO" to a nice big hill... it's a thing of beauty.

GNR - Watch out CIM... that long run is impressive.

DietBacon,

Strong workouts. What sort of program are you following for Valencia?

For comments I will just give a +1 to Stone as I couldnt say it better.

Sub 6 - Most I have done in a week was 101 in spring 2017 a year after a started running to the week. Think I did about 360 miles that month. all E runs tho.

Lanc - No mind games .. kinda happened that way but figure it is easier for the oddsmakers at home. Whatever happens in Indy there will be a couple FAT A$$ PR's for GT and RRR.

I've been around this page since spring 2017 - long enough to know I was never, ever going to be able to compete with RRR when it comes to pure volume. Frankly, I consider it a win I'm this close right now.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

Thoughtsleader - I hope you feel better from your cold. Some unsolicited advice? You may want to try more balance throughout the week than throwing so much into the weekly long run. In fact, I might advise against an aggressive taper in your case - you may benefit more by keeping volume closer to max mileage, with a cut back mostly in the weekly long run.

.

Appreciate this, and everyone's thoughts on the cold front. Feeling better today. Just a bit of a gunk in the throat, occasionally blow my nose.

I am for this balance idea, I don't think I need a super-long run next week ~ thinking 16-18. And I think since I'll be home I can take advantage of the greater abundance of trails/runs and maybe get a nice longer slow run before or after.

As far as taper goes, I think last time the penultimate week before I did a mostly normal week with just a shorter LR (12 miles). And the week of I might've run about 60% of a normal run (e.g. 3-4 miles) for my easy days with a 7-8 mile long run. Let me know if that jibes.

Some other thoughts:

Stone et al. - Always impressed by these progression efforts. I'm wondering if I could do them. I definitely can speed up during a run, but what typically happens is I pick it up and then settle into a pace, which I wont feel natural winding up unless I am really nearing the end of the run.

JQ- unbelievable fartleks, i always have to resist the temptation to have my "off" ones lag in pace

rucker - crazy amount of training, i feel like on my best week i ll get myself up to 7 and a half hours

aj- good luck, buildup has looked amazing

OR- i hate hammies, one of those ones that you never quite feel like you're out of the woods on, seems like you've managed it well

Sub 6- crazy amount of quality in that week including the races

Stone: Great week, looking really solid to me with lots of time still until CIM! Mrs. Stone is looking strong as well, Friday's work is awesome the week after the HM. Thank you so much for the encouragement on my training! The big picture goal is that this is the start of a long journey! In it for the long game, and luckily doing it while surrounded by the folks and wisdom here

Slo: Wow fantastic week, last 20K @MP inside of 35K is no joke, I'm placing bets on you tearing down that goal 7 weeks ago.

GT: Solid week, your adjustment to the 4x2K is still really strong -- you'll get em next time!

RRR: Were you waiting for GT to post first on purpose... :P. Great week, you're basically hitting 100 miles of aerobic volume which is huge. Feeling 22??? Something something Taylor Swift

Pappy: Putting in the time! Hope you feel better soon -- kick the cold early

Niceguy: Nice quality days! In my recent personal experience I find tempo work to really help with MP work, so glad to see it paying off for you as well!

rucker: Great week, 12 hours is quite a bit of volume!

GB: Ouch! Sorry to hear about the ankle! Hope the recovery process goes smoothly, you've still got time!

Thoughtsleader: Fantastic long run! Hope you feel fully recovered soon! Have you tried supplementing with Zinc when with cold? Thank you! A lot of my "fartleks" are closer to intervals, I generally take my jogs super slow during faster work -- probably ranges from 9:00-10:00/mi. I actually am quite a bit lacking in doing some true on/off/float type work... so maybe it's not all that impressive C:

AJ: Nice two weeks out workout, I'm going to try to remember that one to consider for this cycle! Sounds like the legs are nice and ready to roll -- keep it smooth sailing to Berlin!

OR: Glad the hamstring is feeling better, really awesome volume week with quality work despite that challenge, keep rolling on strong! I need me a race shirt where on the back it says "Feels like nothing"

Sub17: Congrats on hitting the goal! That is an absolutely monster progression from April through July to now! Keep on keeping on, surely there's tons of time to shave yet!

328: Damn! Glad you are back from the virus but sorry about the knee -- hope you catch a break soon!

drcrusher: Grats on the Mon-Sun mileage PR! Grinding out that 20 miles in the tough heat will pay dividends I'm sure, nice week!

RunGuy: Ha had that song on replay all day! Another mileage PR in the thread -- congrats! Great week with a lot of strong quality, looking like things are shaping up well for Chicago

Coyote: Dang doesn't sound fun with the allergies and nausea -- hope that as all come to pass now!

darkwave: Yeah I saw your route! Funny enough on most days I'm actually around those parts, but that day I happened to go up to the park for some work on the res dirt path! GPS is certainly a struggle in over here -- to get my data fix I live off my footpod here. Super awesome 2x5mi during the long run, looking very strong.

Sub 6:00: Echoing again from the previous thread, great work on Sunday! I was concerned at first when you mentioned last of the decade, but then I realized holy crap it's almost 2020 ha. Chicago beckons!

BHViking: Solid week, 2 hours at 160! Sounds like pretty tough work

DietBacon: Monster workouts

LancRunner: Great week! Strong workout Wed followed up with a great 4mi tempo, any signed up races on the docket? And thank you!! Yeah I'd like to hit 4K, but that might require keeping up for a little bit after NYC, which may be a bit hard :P. We'll see.

Coach Jeff: 23K of M effort, good stuff right there

GNR1: Really awesome week with a killer 3x3M on Sat, nice stuff

Do we have any folks to track for Berlin? I know we have quite a camp for Chicago

Page 1 comments first:

SC - Amazing progression run on the weekend. Does the pace need to go down to 5k ish to achieve 'flyer status? I will, of course, defer to OR on that one.

Slo - Great volume, combined with some amazing workouts!

GT - Congrats on the highest mileage week. Looking great for Circle City.

RRR - Nice looking workouts

Pappy - Glad to see you on the mend.

Mrs. Stone - Eager to see the workouts in the future weeks.

JQ - Love the progress. I have never run more than 2200 miles in a year. Goal this year is to hit 3000 - I am on track.

NiceGuy - We are probably in very similar shape right now. 12 @ MP while feeling strong bodes well for your goal.

Rucker - Great mix of volume across run, ride and lifts.

GB - Ouch. Hope the ankle feels better soon

ThoughtsLeader - Hope you are on the mend.

AJ - Hay is in the barn. Are you sporting the Boston' 18 look? If you are, I will look for you on the stream :).

OR - Hammering with the hammy issues. Respect!

Sub17 - Amazing work!!

328.... - Get running as soon as you feel better.

Male / 40 yrs / 178 lbs

Goals (Still):

1. Sub 3 marathon in 2019

2. Sub 1:25 half in 2019

M - AM: 4 easy; PM: 6 easy

Tu - AM: 3 easy; PM: 7.2 easy

W - AM: 10.2 [14 mins @ tempo + 6x2min on/off + 14mins @ tempo].. PM: 2 easy

Th - AM: 6.2 easy; PM: 5 easy

F - AM: 2.7 easy; PM: 6.8 easy

Sa - 7 easy

Su - 16 @ steady

Weekly distance: 76 miles

Weekly time: 10:30 hours

Wednesday: Averaged 6:45 for the first tempo section, and 6:25 for the second tempo section. The 2 min on/off was done by feel and landed between 6 and 6:10 pace. Made it harder for me to slow down in the second tempo section - definitely was more 10K effort than real tempo effort.

Sunday: Fast -ish long run, while keeping things steady. Averaged 7:32 for the whole run. Felt good overall.

Overall: Second highest mileage for the year. Training is trending in the right direction.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

[quote]The Stone Cutter wrote:

Thoughtsleader - I hope you feel better from your cold. Some unsolicited advice? You may want to try more balance throughout the week than throwing so much into the weekly long run. In fact, I might advise against an aggressive taper in your case - you may benefit more by keeping volume closer to max mileage, with a cut back mostly in the weekly long run.

.

I agree with the Stone on the balance. Personally dont like my average daily mileage to stray to far from the mean .. so if doing 84 I do not like to go to far away from 12 in either direction. A recovery day or day before workout could be 8 and max long would typically be 14-16. for me it aids it keeping the legs feeling pretty dam good.

runrincerepeat wrote:

I agree with the Stone on the balance. Personally dont like my average daily mileage to stray to far from the mean .. so if doing 84 I do not like to go to far away from 12 in either direction. A recovery day or day before workout could be 8 and max long would typically be 14-16. for me it aids it keeping the legs feeling pretty dam good.

Can see that, and that's how I used to train for sure in my college days. I had issues then, but I think older and wiser I would keep my workouts and run paces under control and avoid the injury/overtraining issues of that era.

Very random and superficial reasons I've kinda went to the current model (length of 2 loops of my typical run + to starting point is 6 or 6.4 miles), I get a lot more sleep and have way more leisure times on weekend, which makes mileage more palatable. That being said, I can say my legs have felt really good in this block of training, so I haven't had trouble with that aspect. I definitely have missed on my goal to get my base runs more like 7-8 miles than the 6-6.5 they are, though, which I think I should do next time. Would up my mileage to more like 55-65 miles on 6 days with a smaller disparity.

Also @OR, I never tried Zinc but I might have to. I feel pretty darn good today, and it's my day off, so I'm hoping to get to bed early and be pretty much 100% tomorrow.

Thanks very much for the comments/feedback, everybody. Hammy was decent this morning. Got in 14.13 at 7:12 overall...a bit fast for an easy day, but as I went along, I felt stronger and stronger, even though the first five miles felt sluggish. It were as if someone flipped a switch at the mile 6 mark. Hilly route, too.

JQ - I LOVE the shirt idea. Speaking of which, I will let out that my custom singlet arrived recently. High-tech fabric with mesh on the back and sides and..."outsiderunner" printed on the side panels. So, I am ready for beast mode (as AJ might say).

jot quill wrote:

Do we have any folks to track for Berlin? I know we have quite a camp for Chicago

The one and only AJ, of course...

outsiderunner wrote:

jot quill wrote:

Do we have any folks to track for Berlin? I know we have quite a camp for Chicago

The one and only AJ, of course...

OH DUH, I even commented on that in my responses hah. Can't wait to root for the man himself!

Very nice with the custom singlet, hope you consider the extra text if you ever make a V2 :)

Likewise, I cannot wait to root for AJ. Very much looking forward to this race for him. He has paid his dues, and it is time for him to join the sub-2:40 club. Beast mode!

Yes, the additional text would be perfect for a V2 singlet.

Thanks for the encouragement folks.

Cocoon - Yes, the giraffe will lumber thru the streets of Berlin shirtless, assuming the Germans are cool with that.

Jq - do you smell that?

Male, 25, 6’4”, 141lbs

PRs: 4:54 (mile), 16:56, 1:18:00, 28:01 (8k 2015), 2:47:14 (all 2018 but 8k)

Goal: Philly Marathon

Upcoming Races - Paul Short 8k 10/5, Philly M 11/24

Mn - Off (long day at work)

Tu - AM: 6 @ 8:15s, PM: 3x3200 + WU/WD = 13

Wd - 11 @ 7:45s

Wd PM: Throw up everywhere

Th - Off

Fr - Off

Sa - Off

Su - Off

Total - 30

Mn - Got home from work at like 7pm and didnt have it in me to run (got home from work 1 hr later today and did get a short run in though).

Tu - felt surprisingly ok considering the philly half on sunday that I racejogged. 11:52 11:49 11:48 with 400 recs.

Wd - felt fine during the day and during the run, after shower was doing dishes and was feeling not great, had some chocolate milk since i figured it was lack of calories, ended up skipping most of dinner and throwing up at 11:30pm (I did manage to fall asleep for about 1.5hrs before) was up until 3AM trying to get the kale out of my sinuses. Off from work thursday (woke up after noon). half day friday, started to feel mostly fine (only weak) saturday sunday. Got down to lower than 139lbs tho. I haven't felt hunger since wednesday and have had probably 1/2 my normal caloric intake over the past 5 days. Haven't the slightest idea what was wrong with me.

Feeling 95%+ as of monday though, ran 20min easy after 11hr work day.

On a happy note, RunnerSam's fiancee ran her 5th 70mi week in a row with a 4-3-2-1 LR w/ 1mi rec (21miles total) at 6:41 6:40 6:45 and 6:38 paces and averaging sub 7 pace for the first 16 miles of the run before a slow 6mi CD. looking good for sub 3 debut in 3 weeks.

RS - Sorry to hear about your sickness.. It sounds quite similar to what I had for 30+ days over the summer The nausea, lack of appetite, night sickness, and overall mystery of it caught my attention. Did you have any fever? You may want to try taking some activated charcoal.