11 year old Briana J.

Well, one person did respond pretty much in an affirming way to COOP's post, which I think was way out of line. He meant it more than just a joke too. He provided the link the picture after all.

Seems to me that you are feeling bad that I didn't say your previous post had a good point. You shouldn't need affirmation from me to get you though your day - go fish for a pat on the back somewhere else. I'm sure there's SOMETHING that you're good at that you can be proud of.

Knower wrote:

Seems to me that you are feeling bad that I didn't say your previous post had a good point.

You shouldn't need affirmation from me to get you though your day - go fish for a pat on the back somewhere else. I'm sure there's SOMETHING that you're good at that you can be proud of.

LOL! Yep. That's it exactly. I came to LetsRun looking for validation and you didn't give it to me. I'm crushed. Same goes for the other people who made valid points: cb, tex, Portland_Runner, Mike_MacReady, HBK, JD, etc. You have hurt our feelings.

Look, nobody buys your laughable assertion that your goal "is only to further distance running in the United States". Seems more like it is to project your limited sense of propriety on to children. I think distance running will do just fine without another Mr. Blackwell, thanks.

If you're going to start slamming 11 year olds for their fashion sense, you need to be ready for some flak on this board. Next time, wear a cup.

Coop, that's pretty low. First someone attacks her for wearing sunglasses, and now you attack her for her "questionable" gender. She's faster than you too isn't she?

I can take the flak. I'm just surprised by it in this case.

As far as those other people you listed, they didn't come on here twice wondering why I didn't give them pats on the back.

Basically to disagree with me, you have to believe the following:

#1 - It is appropriate for 11 year olds to train hard enough to place 30th among all of their sex at a major road race like Falmouth.

#2 - It is appropriate for her parents to take her to presitgious road races so that pretty much no matter how she does she will be the top 11 year old and get lots of attention.

#3 - It is not silly for an 11 year old to do the whole image thing with wearing the sunglasses. (By the way, it has noting to do with fashion sense and all about attitude).

Ok then, now I know where you stand.

Uh no, not at all. Your post was about sunglasses. Period. Somehow it has now expanded into this manifesto. OK, whatever, here begins your straw man

Neither of these points has anything to do with your original post. It was about sunglasses, remember? I am no fan of parents that push their kids into sports. But then again, we were not debating that point with you. If you want to slam her parents, be my guest. But instead you slammed the little girl for her sunglasses.

I used fashion sense and attitude synonymously. But for sake of argument, let's stick to your "image" point. Several people have very patiently explained this to you but still you don't get it. People sometimes wear sunglasses to shield their eyes from the sun. What part of that don't you understand?

For the third time, it was an extremely bright day, that day. To make matters worse, the Falmouth course goes right by the ocean. Huge ocean views. With the sun reflecting off the water. Simply blinding. Have you ever even been there? Everybody wears sunglasses. Spectators, drivers, runners, etc.

I sure hope so. God knows I can't say it any more clearly than that.

Since I see this topic as mostly inconsequential, I hadn't planned on writing. But, it does appear a little one-sided against Knower, here.

Ok, so Knower wrote his first post in such a way to solicit a response, and perhaps he did too good a job. The crux of the matter comes down to 1) style vs. substance, and 2) trying to be an adult when your not. And in that light, I lean slightly towards Knower's point of view on this one. If a young runner is going to imitate a respected athlete, I would prefer that the young athlete attempt to mirror the grit/determination/work ethic rather than the way an athlete looks. Style vs. Substance.

Maybe it was bright and sunglasses were warranted (I have no issue with sunglasses per se), but tell me that the picture doesn't depict an 11 year old trying to be 23 as soon as possible. Innocence in childhood is a good thing.. no need to rush things. I understand that kids all the time do this... we all wanted to be adults as quickly as possible (not to have better discipline or greater responsibilities... just to be adults). Is this a good thing?

Lastly, anecdotally, when I was in HS, I loved to race this guy that had all the new gear, sleek uniform, etc. and beat the tar out of him (me being in ratty shorts). I bet most of you can relate. The wares of your running should be exhibited by your running (and good for her to be able to run fast, and I hope she isn't overly pushed, however doubtful that may be), and not by what you wear or how you look. Sunglasses on a bright day - OK. But looking like Suzy (calendar pin-up runner who someone suggested the other day she just go ahead and pose sans clothing) or Kournikova, I don't think is the all-time best idea.

Fire away, but I doubt I'll be writing much more today, I have to get some work done.

Ah yes.. she really needs to check that attitude. That girl really has some kind of problem. Standing there being shy and not saying anything but good luck and smiling. Shame on her!

JEH,

Now THERE'S a good post. Average_Joe take note.

Knower wrote:

Now THERE'S a good post. Average_Joe take note.

Note taken. You have to pick and choose what you're going to respond to on the boards. Posts like that I usually ignore. There's nothing you can do about them, really. Of course the joke was in very bad taste. But there's so much of that online, you'd spend all day trying to respond to them, if you did. Whatever you may think of my opinions, at least I took yours seriously enough to respond to them with an argument.

(Whoops, let me try this response again. I though you were talking about the throwaway, shame-on-you post that somebody (""cb"?) made about the crude joke. Hadn't read JEH's post when I responded.)

Knower wrote:

Now THERE'S a good post. Average_Joe take note.

Yes it is a good post. Shame you couldn't have said it like that instead of slamming the 11 year old. I don't disagree with any of what JEH said. Training makes you faster, not gear. But you'll note he never slammed Briana.

My objection (aside from the slamming of an 11 year old that I felt was mean-spirited) is to the automatic assumption that someone wearing sunglasses is into it for the image. As if people are supposed to feel guilty for wanting to protect their eyes. You read far too many personality traits into that. If you had simply reponded to that objection, I would have been out of this thread a long time ago.

And now I'm off for a long weekend so I won't be able to respond anymore until Sunday (yes, I can hear the cheers already) at which point this thread will likely be long dead.

I guess the last word on this is yours. Fire away.

whoa! didn't expect anyone to take that seriously. i mean comeon, i don't really think she's a man, nor do i think she has a penis....it simply caught my attention, and i thought the crude humor would lighten the mood.

i have nothing against this girl, her running, her attire, or her attitude.

i posted the web site so people could see where my humor was coming from.

so, my advice is this: if you have your panties all up in a bunch over her sunglasses, get over it, get out the door, and train. sunglasses make you neither fast, nor slow. non issue.

if you had a problem with my post, sit back, take a deep breath, exhale long and completely, and remember what it was like to laugh over a picture of a girl who looks like she has a wang.

if that doesn't work, download some footage of the monkey sniffing his own poopy finger and falling from the branch, and watch it til your sense of humor comes back.

for the less crude-minded...

i find it amazing she runs as fast as she does...i mean look at the arm in the upper right-hand corner in comparison to her size. she must be the size of a smurf! remarkable..perhaps a record for people three apples high.

http://www.fast-women.com/photos/falmouth02/falmouth33.jpg

JEH, I see what you're saying. On the other hand, if a person likes gear, that's FINE.

When you're a kid, getting new gear, and showing it off, is one of the more fun things in life. I know for me, I'd always wear the new sneakers, shorts, jersey, whatever, around with me everywhere I went. It's a statement, and it makes you feel cool. Style means nothing, but it's sure fun.

Regarding "Innocence in Childhood", I actually believe that trying to look exactly like your heroes in sports is one of the greatest signs of childhood innocence. I sure wouldn't wear my Olajuwon jersey to play bball now, and I wouldn't stick out my tongue like Jordan when I do a layup.

The first step of innocence is not knowing what you look like at all. But the second one is when you try to copy EXACTLY what a hero looks like, in a time when you're not cynical enough to worry about what others will think about your copy.

Mike,

Wow, for an 18yr old, you?re a mental giant. This is why it will be no pleasure of mine to invalidate your decent rebuttal (smile). On the new gear, to a certain extent, you?re right! (This is why I wasn?t giving my opinion for awhile and even when I did, I said I ?slightly? leaned in agreement with Knower.) New stuff is fun, no doubt about it. But, we all agree that if it becomes a focus, then it isn?t so cool, right? So, all I am saying is that it can be a danger to be wary of because it could easy to move from ?Style means nothing, but it?s sure fun? to ?Style is fun and it really is something?. Clearly, this is an attitudinal perspective that can not be positively attributed to someone through looking at a picture, but obviously people who are A.) all decked out, and B) young are more susceptible to vulnerability to these poor habits. Generally speaking, I would advise against behaviors that could (but may not necessarily) lead towards bad habits/perspectives or difficult consequences.

Your take on innocence is a good thought (c?mon, though, I know you still like to stick that tongue out and hold that ball high as you float spread-legged toward the rim)! Innocence, unfortunately, can be lost in little bits and pieces through no deliberate effort on your part. So, I am with you that she is not trying. But, I see a little bit of a difference in the mimicking you?ve described, and what?s going on with this 11yr old. Unlike jerseys with names on the back and dangerous lay-up attempts on the playground, she is copying to the point there is no further she can go (ie. She?s effectively beyond copying). This does have effects down the road. How excited will she be to wear a generic HS uniform, or even a collegiate one? Again, I guess it is possible she really has her head on straight and can sort these issues out. Maybe she?ll be excited to represent her jr. high for all the right reasons (knowing it has nothing to do with a uniform). But, she?s 11? 11 is pretty young.

If I were going to blame someone, I think her parents (through a bunch of decisions that happened a long time ago) most likely played the biggest role in enabling (perhaps encouraging) the elite racer get-up. They probably made their decisions with great intentions, but I don?t think I agree that they were the right decisions.

To be real honest, though, this topic really doesn?t do much for me. This is what I think on it, but I don?t want to spend a great day on Letsrun talking about a little girl?s (or boy?s, whatever) outfit. So, I?ll let anyone else have the last word as I can?t imagine someone responding in such a way that would inspire another entry by me on this.