Why is everyone so slow?? (Serious Question)

A same-age friend of mine placed second recently in a very low-key road 5k a town or two over. The winning time was 20:xx. Had I known about it prior, I could've won this race and my time would still have been soft.

I dunno man...We're all getting older.

Some goodness here. 130 runners in a premier 5-miler in Cbus (like the Johnnycake Jog in CLE), but not as large.

Top 25 runners were under 7:15/mi. pace.

Top 8 runners under 6:00/mi. pace.

Not elite, but not bad either, for a hobbyjogger race. The Cbus 'thon race director did well too, coming in 24th. I'm not sure if he posts here or is aware of this site though (I'm surprised at how many runners I know who've never heard of LetsRun.com).

Not sayings it’s causation, but shorts have gotten longer and races have gotten slower

Just saying

I was a spectator at this race 5k recently where a guy won in just over 21 minutes. He sprinted to the line to narrowly beat a 13yo boy. He was pretty puffed up afterwards. I overheard him telling a few people that he’d clocked “around 16 minutes” for the win. Pathetic!

Then he started barking stuff at the volunteers like “when do I get my award for first overall?? ”, “what is taking so long, where is my prize??” He started to really annoy people, so the race director quietly told the volunteers he would delayi the award ceremony in the hope the jerk would get impatient and leave. Eventually he did stomp off angrily. They gave the $75 first OA gift card to the kid.

These are amateur races.

15-16 minute 5K and 2:30-2:40 marathon are very good times for people who start running in their late 20s or older and have a day job. They are pretty serious amateurs with a lot of dedication and they may want some of the fame, too.

You might not be aware, but some of those people get pretty pissed when a pro or a college athlete shows up at a local race, blows through the competition and grabs all the meager trophies they have to offer. There's one athlete infamous for this sort of stuff. Once he won a race that had a frying pan (yes) as first prize and his photo holding it started circulating around the web. People have been calling this kind of behavior 'pan-stealing' since then.

hj53 wrote:

These are amateur races.

15-16 minute 5K and 2:30-2:40 marathon are very good times for people who start running in their late 20s or older and have a day job. They are pretty serious amateurs with a lot of dedication and they may want some of the fame, too.

You might not be aware, but some of those people get pretty pissed when a pro or a college athlete shows up at a local race, blows through the competition and grabs all the meager trophies they have to offer. There's one athlete infamous for this sort of stuff. Once he won a race that had a frying pan (yes) as first prize and his photo holding it started circulating around the web. People have been calling this kind of behavior 'pan-stealing' since then.

Sounds like these people need to get over themselves. That’s a horrible attitude to have. If you’re not good enough to hang, you’re not good enough to hang. If you enter a race and follow the rules and win, you should never be looked down upon simply for showing up and beating other guys.

I can definitely see why sub-15 guys are not showing up to these races if this is the kind of attitude that any runners, let alone other dedicated runners who should respect fast running, have towards them. What a horrible world we live in where excellence is frowned upon because the guy winning is too much of a “try hard” or “show off” for certain races. Even worse when experienced amateurs are looking down upon pros because the pros are “ruining” their false image of themselves as the top dog. Again, these people need to really look at themselves in the mirror and find another purpose for running besides just winning. I feel like they’re missing a key lesson that running teaches you- namely, humbleness and sportsmanship in the face of a superior competitor.

hj53 wrote:

These are amateur races.

15-16 minute 5K and 2:30-2:40 marathon are very good times for people who start running in their late 20s or older and have a day job. They are pretty serious amateurs with a lot of dedication and they may want some of the fame, too.

You might not be aware, but some of those people get pretty pissed when a pro or a college athlete shows up at a local race, blows through the competition and grabs all the meager trophies they have to offer. There's one athlete infamous for this sort of stuff. Once he won a race that had a frying pan (yes) as first prize and his photo holding it started circulating around the web. People have been calling this kind of behavior 'pan-stealing' since then.

And panhandling if they are not American born

What you are sayong doesnt make any sense. The poster said, and it is true, that races back a few decades ago were faster. So was the average person more talented just 30 years ago than now? Has there some how been a decline in "natural" talent in the average person?

What?? wrote:

What you are sayong doesnt make any sense. The poster said, and it is true, that races back a few decades ago were faster. So was the average person more talented just 30 years ago than now? Has there some how been a decline in "natural" talent in the average person?

There were significantly less races back in the day and so the talent was more concentrated giving the impression the old timer dudes were way faster when the reality is they were about the same as the fast dudes these days.

Seriously mate? wrote:

......... wrote:

I’ve seen road races with over 500 people in them where the winning time is above 20 minutes. There are races with almost 10,000 people in them where the winning times are barely under 16. Marathons with thousands of people are being won in 2:40, etc. How is this possible? There are kids who are sub 15 not even scoring for the good teams in DIII who could win some of these massive races easily. How is it possible to have so much of a discrepancy? What is going on?

JF?

HAHA! Buffalo Runners Forum goes national!

wow everyone on here is so fast wrote:

Welcome to letsrun, where EVERYBODY has a pr of 14:xx/30:xx LMAO.

Sub 15 is not slow and sub 16 is not slow either. Even running below 6 min pace on a sidewalk in a semi-large city will startle most other pedestrians as you go by. Somebody on here mentioned that sub 15 is an easily achievable feat for the top 3% of runners. That is simply absurd. Show me statistical proof that the top 3% of runners in the US can run under 15 min. It's not close to being true.

Your perspective of races being "slow" is simply a small sample bias based on the races you have attended.

Sub-15 could be around 3rd percentile for dedicated runners (I don't know, but you can check this on some running results website), but I agree with your general point that sub-15 is 99.99etc. percentile in both potential and current ability of the overall population. People underestimate the amount of raw talent required to run these absurdly fast 5k, 10k times. I'm in in awe and could never do it.

Because supposedly serious fast hobby runners (joggers) don't race. They just train and then roll their eyes at local races won in pathetic times. They think they're too cool to show up for a local race.

Sick of your town's 5ks being won in 20 minutes? Then show up and win it in 16 minutes. Then next time the other local fast guys will see a decent time and show up, too.

IT'S YOUR FAULT YOUR LOCAL RACES SUCK! Stop sitting on the couch on Saturday mornings and go race!

I'm an old masters guy now and race 5ks a full minute a mile slower than I did in my prime. Guess what? I often place HIGHER now in local races than I did then, because the 20 and 30 ages DON'T SHOW UP ANYMORE!

Please, start showing up and blowing my doors off. I'm serious, please do. The top ten places should not consist of teenagers and masters, but that's often what happens, because the young adults are a no-show.

"But...but...but... I'm training....but...hobby joggers...but...entry fees..."

Look, drop the excuses. If you're a local fast guy, then show up and run local races. Encourage other local fast guys to do the same. Otherwise, stop complaining that local races are won by slow people... because IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!

+1

Low 16s 5k, 38 year old here and I never see this kind of thing... Several of my mates are around the same level as me and we would all much rather run against faster runners as we know we'll run faster.

Also, I feel like this whole argument is played out... This side of the pond, things are getting much better with lots of races being set up to make people run faster. I totally agree with the guy that said if you want to see a change then do something about it.

holiday hobby jogger wrote:

The top ten places should not consist of teenagers and masters, but that's often what happens, because the young adults are a no-show.

That's exactly what happens at races in my area. The top finishers are teenagers and masters. Seriously, they'll make up 8 or 9 of the top 10 in area 5ks. The 20s and 30s just aren't there. Sometimes there aren't even enough of them to claim the three age group awards. A young adult that races regularly is a purple dinosaur.

I guess they're all too busy putting in 100 mile weeks. Of course if you never race, I have to wonder what's all that training for?

Race directors can probably offer better insight, but in my opinion the declining times and depths at the front of local races can be attributed to (at least) a few things:

1) Over-saturation of charity 5ks.

You can also include dog runs, black light races, and any other non-race focused type event into this category. These runs get big numbers but offer no prize money and usually don't have the best courses. These are won in 20 minutes and catered towards "finishing" and "supporting the cause" rather than winning or running fast. You're almost seen as a D-bag if you go and win these "races".

2) Exploding race costs and diminishing prize money.

In 1999, you could register for a low key local 5k for $15 with a top prize of $100. Obviously not a huge pay day, but net $85 ($130 in todays money) and you can have a nice night out with dinner and drinks, or two pairs of 1999 cost running shoes, etc. 20 years down the road and many 5ks often cost $30-$50, yet prize money at small low key non-charity 5ks still sit at $100 despite cost of living going up 50%. That's only counting races that even offer prize money anymore, which seem to be a rarer breed as well.

Looking at my State on a searchable site, there are 12 races this weekend after removing free timed park runs, triathlons, and running tours. It's blazing hot so not exactly ideal for elite racing, but out of these 12 races the average race entry cost was $35 (and that's taking the lowest possible early entry fee offered for each race). Only 1 of the 12 races offered prize money and it was a $50 GC for a race that had a $40 entry fee.

3) Greater information available for High School, College, and amateur/pro runners.

HS and College athletes may have traditionally hopped in their local races on the weekends to test the wheels or tempo, but now have greater information online and would rather focus on their training or year round racing. Why bother paying $30-$50 to go win a 5k by 3-4 minutes and that's way too expensive to go tempo. Their results are also posted all over the internet for everyone to see - including their coach.

There is also much more information available as to what races are fast nationwide and the top athletes are willing to travel and converge at a few specific events. You see two types of athletes post-collegiately: Those that get signed to big contracts and would almost never run a road race and the fringe athletes that only travel to the large events with deeper prize pools. There is much less regional road whoring that you'd see in the 80s - post collegiate athletes getting a minor local sponsorship, comped entries into races around a region, and cleaning up all the prize money.

When I was in HS I once ran 2 miles in 9:58. We had to do that 2 miles for every gym class, which was 2x per week, and once we were timed as part of our grade (ah, the good old days—gym teacher was also the distance coach and would often run with us).

I was probably in 15:00 or sub-15 5k shape at the time—but that no doubt ended as soon as I left HS and stopped those regular 2-milers.

Then at 40-something I did around 18:30 once, after dropping weight from the flu.

Now, I am at 23, with the goal of sub-20.

I say this to illustrate the power of youth, training, and trained youth. How many trained youth are around now, compared to say 1980? Effectively none, as far as I can tell. Trained old guys? Also none, they are very rare. And the overall population has aged, so average times are probably naturally worse.

IDK what 15:00 equates to in the 100m, but it’s probably decently fast. Yes some of the local races are super slow, so slow that I will soon be competitive—but I know that the fast guys pick their spots, even for a 5k.

And a few of them have told me that they stay away from the 5k because it is too fast for them and they get injured, so they do 10k, 10 miles, and the marathon. Maybe times in those longer distances are better, relatively speaking.

Other than that, people are just lazy. Running is hard, especially if you do it only infrequently. There are only very few people nowadays who get off on going hard and fast.

A female soccer player I know at Carleton College (ugh) who runs all the time told me there was this guy there who was super-fast, and who is a sort of college hero. She asked me to guess his mile time, and I guessed 3:58. Her jaw dropped, and she told me he was something like 4:13. OMG back in the day my HS had 3 guys who were right on the cusp of breaking 4 mins.

Standards have changed. Yes I know it’s D3 or something, but whatever.

The “super-fast” guy’s PB’s are 4:12.82 mile, and 1:59.35 800m.

Yes I know it’s CARLETON, but still. My HS had a smaller population, too.

And this coming from a girl who does regular 4-milers, so she is not “untrained”.