Road Racing & Training Thread Week Ending 28 April 2019

44 year old guy 5'6 124

PR's (from 2018) 17:05 5K, 34:52 10K, 1:16 Half, 2:42 Full

Next Race: OC Half (5/5/19)

Short term goals: Work on PR's from 5K-half races, participate in some masters track or XC races to try something new

Long term goals: Sub-3 all of the Abbott World Marathon Majors (still need London and Berlin) and get my Six Star Finisher Medal

Monday: AM Track WU 2@7:01, 6x1 with 0.25 Rec (5:41, 1:49, 5:26, 1:55, 5:24, 1:56, 5:22, 1:55, 5:24, 1:55, 5:22), CD 2@7:27, PM Treadmill Easy 4@7:27

Tuesday: AM Park Easy 5@7:33, Treadmill HIIT 2.6@5:34+Core/Strength, Park Easy 6.2@7:39

Wednesday: AM Treadmill HIIT with Inclines 4.3@5:45 + Core/Strength, PM Treadmill Easy 6.2@7:01

Thursday: AM Treadmill 5@7:21, PM Treadmill Tempo 6.2@5:36 (including 0.5 WU+0.7 CD, 5 mile tempo progression 5:39 to 5:02)

Friday: AM Treadmill HIIT 4.9@5:35 + core/strength, PM Park Easy 6.2@7:35

Saturday: Treadmill Easy with Strides 6.2@7:06

Sunday: Road/Trail 13.2 @ 6:42 (first 9 miles progression 7:16 to 6:08, last 4 miles 6:40-7:00)

Felt very inspired by Kipchoge's win at London Marathon. I hope I can get into London next year via the World Marathon Majors Age Group Championships

pewow - congrats on the 5 mile result. solid splits and effort!

slow-twitch - nice TT solo effort and fitness gage! I'm a big fan of this

darkwave - huge congrats on another 18:53...I'm guessing you would have run the same time a day earlier, as you seem to have this paced dialed in...sure it will help with the longer stuff running economy!

Stone Cutter - major props to Mrs. Stone...very impressed!

BH Viking - rough one after a good start. Guessing course specific longish runs in race day shoes prior might have helped, but maybe not. still, it sounds like your fitness is going well, with the splits! all the best recovering

Bruin - nice week and good luck with the half next weekend! Although I had told myself I’m not making any race decisions until after Chicago, I applied for entry in London 2020. Felt the same way as you, and figured I’d throw the odds to the lottery gods.

Thanks for all the responses on the Vaporfly! Some very good points there and I appreciate all the feedback provided. It's interesting that there is a least one other person who had blisters in about the same spot. The fact that others had success on downhill courses such as Phoenix Mesa is certainly interesting but the Revel is certainly a different animal. I forgot to mention that nearly everyone else who lined up at the front of the pack at the start of the race was wearing the orange VaporFly's. I don't know if any of them had similar issues.

Unfortunately for me, my next race (Deadwood Mickelson Half Marathon) is a little over a month away and is also a net downhill. I just checked the elevation profile and the average grade appears to be a shade over -2%. Granted, this is nowhere near as bad as Revel Mt. Charleston. I now am faced with the decision of "what to wear" on this course. I may very well not only be fine in the Vaporfly but better off. I have Pegasus 35 (daily) and ZoomFly Flyknits (workouts) for trainers. The safe play might be to just wear the Pegasus 35 in the race, even though they are a heavier shoe.

A few shoutouts:

Urban Diesel - nice job on the surprise marathon - those are beautiful splits on what I've heard is a gorgeous course.

Runn3rgirl123 - amazingly quick turnaround. You're on fire!

Drcrusher - welcome - I love the handle.

Bruin - I was thinking about London too, getting in the same way....

Tall Dark Roast - belated congrats on the 5K - that sounds just perfectly paced.

Dirtroad SC - congrats on the new PR!

Stone - fantastic for Mrs. Stone - that's a quick turnaround. Enjoy the recovery.

pewow: Ouch with the temp and the wind. Looks like you bounched back pretty well after mile 4.

RRR: "Easing into summer." Despite all the workouts and beers you listed this week I am the most jealous of your apparent warm weather.

slo: 3k time trial solo is no joke, nice work.

TDR: Good race on top of a full week, very good sign.

jewbacca: Sounds smart and like it ought to mend right up with fewer mountains.

Hereford: Ooh, a new long term project to spectate.

LH: Yikes, sounds like its stabilizing at least.

darkwave: You must be ready to shake loose a big one if repeating like that isn't that draining.

Sub6: Just as any workout schedule needs "down weeks," so too does any healthy diet need occasional "cake weeks."

Stone: The Mrs. is quite inspiring between the quip at Boston and that follow up! Props to you for even attempting the second race.

Run Guy: That's a nice progressive tempo.

BHV: Wow, that is an ordeal. Hope ya heal up.

GT: Yeah that Friday turned out real nice, smart training.

Dirtroad: Bold move pays off with a PR, great racing!

statfan: Cool Tuesday workout.

cocoon: Big weekend, nice work.

puddles: Congrats on the race, that is flyin

RS: Hey ya still got 13 on Sunday after a race, pretty good.

Bdubs: Lot of good work there after the layoff. Good luck.

drcrusher: Way to get out there in crummy weather

JQ That relay sounds nuts.

UD: You just keep crushing it man. Way to go.

runnergirl: Heck of a race! Again!

JeremyR: Ah yes, the traditional 5k/50k back-to-back...

Bruin: Hey you might BEAT Kipchoge at something if you get your last 2 majors soon.

Thanks Urban Diesel. Damn, nice marathon. I love Big Sur, but more for chilling. Or easy runs on the Old Coast Road

B Dubs- great to hear from you and good idea on splitting up those k’s

Sub 6- I need someone to hammer a 2:29 with at Indy Monumental. Although I suspect you’ll be good for more like 2:25 by then!

Darkwave- portrait of consistency, congrats

M, 31, 6'1" 162

S. 5.5 easy

M. 5.1 easy

T. 5 at track with 2k time trial in 6:50 (5:28 mile pace

W. off

Th. 3.8 easy

F. 2.8 super easy

S. 3 easy

Sunday 4/28: half marathon in 1:23:54

I am thrilled with the half marathon result. Huge PR, but the main goal was to run a controlled race.

Through under-training, over-training, fool-hardy goals, etc., I have never really executed a race well until this year. Example: in 2017 I entered a marathon shooting for 3:45. Training was insufficient for that, projectile vomiting 2 days prior, and somehow I went through the half in 3:35 pace. Finished in 4:07 and tremendous pain.

Contrast to yesterday: put in a consistent base phase for the first time ever, moderated expectations, did not light out for glory like a moron/teenager. Settled in at 6:30's for the first 5 miles, feeling great. Slightly hammered the downhill 6th mile in 6:0x. First missed turn: shortly after the 10k mat I went ~20 meters straight past a hard right. Ambiguous cones and a lackadaisical volunteer. Took some doing to get mentally and physically back on track. A flat couple miles at 6:10-15, and a few rollers in 6:30s.

Second missed turn at ~10 miles. Nothing indicating a turn. Hard left, I went straight 10-15 meters uphill. I am convinced that the rage kept me on 6:20 pace through a few more hills until mile 12 when we were told "To the right!...TOO FAR RIGHT!"

So after we got down off the active highway on-ramp, I managed a "nuthin left to lose" kick toward the stadium. Nearly missed the entrance of course, but it all worked out.

Learned a lot, had a blast, really glad I did not have a firm time goal.

M59

5'11" 182 lbs

Training status: Knee rehab, rebuild

Goal: 15K in August

April 22-28, 2019

M- Bike 44.2 miles @ 18.9 mph

Tu- 10 mins elliptical; 40 mins treadmill @ 5%

W- 9.1 miles @ 9:36/mi (roads)

Th- Bike 18.3 miles @ 16.6 mph

Fr- off

Sa- 7.8 miles @ 10:23/mi (roads)

Su- off

TOTAL: 20.6 MILES

Fourteen weeks to the 15K. Knees still hurt -- need to get back on my rehab exercises.

M/35/140ish (after stomach bug this weekend....)

Rough week. Had a race scheduled for Saturday. Monday-Thursday had a cold... lingered through to Friday... but felt alright. Saturday, woke up a bit nauseous, but raced... Sunday, spent all day in the bathroom. Figure that might have been a factor in my mediocre performance.

Anyway, here is my week...

M - 7 at 7:23 - cold was in full swing... felt feverish - ran a 102 when i got home... so yea...

Tu - 2.5 WU, 10x400 (82, 79, 82, 82, 82, 80, 82, 81, 82 ,80) on the road, 2 mile CD

W - 7 at 7:47 - Felt good, cold was better, still hacking cough

Th - 5.1 at 7:44 - Easy, kind of "tapering" before the 5k

F - 4 miles and 6 strides... felt ok

Sa - Race... felt terrible during 2 mile WU... heart rate was elevated to 150/160 at 8 min pace... was first indication that things were not right. 5k is 18:23. Enough for an age group win (though, nothing to write home about there). Just felt plain awful. .25 mile Cool down was all i could muster.

Su - Off - Unless you count losing weight in the bathroom a day of work.

Took Monday off as well, just getting right again. What a mess.

The race was disappointing, splits were HORRENDOUS. I'll give a quick race report, but I'm still a bit miffed.

First off, day was very windy. Sustained winds of 20-30mph. Gusts of 40+. (that's what the weather man said anyway...) First mile, wind at the back, and downhill. Went out behind the main group who I knew was MUCH faster than I. But, that left me, as I thought, in no mans land. It seems that at these local races, there are two groups... the 16:30 and unders, and the 18:00 and ups. Being that I wanted to be in the middle there, that didn't help me much. There was probably 2-3 guys that were strung out in between the lead pack and the second grouping. Went through the first mile in 5:20, not too concerning, felt pretty good, but who wouldn't downhill with wind at your back. Second mile, little rougher, some hills that were short and steep, making you feel them. Second mile was a 5:47... Not terrible, not great. 3rd mile... mostly uphill into the finish, wind in the face, felt like I was getting further away from the finish line rather than closer. last mile (and .1) were at 6:24 pace. Had NOTHING in the tank. Could barely pick up my legs. Just felt terrible. Looking back, the week up to and the actual race day, health was not good. We live to fight another day.

Finally getting back to it today. Might just try and get 4-5 miles back in the legs and see how that feels. Then go from there. Sickness derails training sometimes... just not cool.

Anyway, I have to read through the thread, but looks like there was some good racing this weekend... pewow, saw your post, nice 8k man!

Page 3?! What has happened this week. People must be busy.

Ran yesterday, felt not great, but better. Coming back.

Still post Bean town hangovers for some probably. I think it will pick up next week.

My week is going pretty well anyways.

pewow - great job in the 8k. PR in some nastiness is a big fitness display.

JB - Hope the injury continues to heal. Looking forward to seeing what you can do this weekend.

PM - Did we ever get that race recap or did lots of booze and Avengers turn into too much booze and Avengers?

LH - Hope you're cross training and feeling better. Make a decision on that weekend half yet?

DW - that's some smart racing. Especially like "She threw a second surge in up the second sharp hill, which I allowed, and then I threw in my own surge right at the top, just as she was recovering." That's a veteran move right there.

Guy - Wow. Big PR even with the poor course management throwing you off. Good things to come.

Both Stones showing some stones. Enjoy the rest.

RGM - October's a long way away compared to a mere 10 lbs.

BHViking - Sorry Mt. Charleston didn't go your way. Hopefully you were luckier indoors in Vegas. I can't imagine the pain of those downhill races generally speaking, and I'm sure it didn't help if you were making an abbreviated transition from a treadmill (unless you were working the negative incline on that treadmill...). Not sure if the ZoomFly will be any 'better' for you since they're so similar geometry wise? For whatever reason I like the Vaporfly but the Zoomfly feel awkward, but obviously everyone is different.

dirtroad - congrats on the PR

Cocoon- that's a strong week so soon after Boston.

Bdubs - welcome back, don't be a stranger

Runn3rgirl - continuing the impressive string of races the last couple weeks.

Lanc- sounds like a tough week and race. I think last week's write up you also mentioned you were fighting a cold that you just planned to run through. Any thoughts on whether it would have stuck around for so long if you would have rested up a bit more early in the week? Of course there's a good chance I may be too far on the other side of "when in doubt, rest it out"...

LR - sorry about the tough race. I was sick earlier this winter and it knocked my training on its ass for a good week. It was like a shell of myself was running. Hope that’s the case for you.

I probably should have taken longer off, but it’s hard to! Also, I had this race this weekend and I wasn’t going to miss it. The cold lingered, and then that stomach bug hit me and really knocked me out. I should learn and rest when sick.

Anyway, feeling much better today. Easy 8 in the bag and feel like I’m more myself again. Will probably take it easy this week with no workouts and just resume that next week.

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

PM - Did we ever get that race recap or did lots of booze and Avengers turn into too much booze and Avengers?

I wish it was just booze. My supervisors told me that I would give some classes at university on Monday and Tuesday. Absolutely no time to even turn my laptop on ahah.

Late but here it is...

RACE RECAP

I didn't have any time goal for this Half Marathon. Due to injury, I ran for only a month and a half consistently before this race. The first goal was to run hard and evaluate my shape. I know a 10k would be preferable since the resting time would be shorter, but I couldn't find any, and I know I would have a friend to pace me all the way here.

This race was in a small Portuguese city called Aveiro. We traveled there on Thursday and the race was on Sunday. A lot of sightseeing and I could get my bib without any problem. My coach called me before the race and told me to go with a 2-man group. One of them was pacing the other to 1:30:xx. He told me that with the right effort we could dip under 1:30, but that the goal was to run hard. Also, the organization promoted the course as 'one of the fastest and flattest in Europe'...

I woke up 3 hours before, as I usually do, had a bowl of oatmeal, peanut butter and a banana and went back to bed for two more hours of sleep. The place where I was sleeping was 1 mile from the starting line. I jogged there, gave an extra t-shirt and a sweater to my mother, and jogged for one mile more. Then some dynamic stretching and some strides. I was feeling pretty good at this point...

One of the problems of this race was that the 10k, the HM and the Marathon would all start at the same time. I was expecting a lot of shoving and elbows, as well as people who start the race walking (because they don't go to the right corrals and try to be in the front no matter what...). But the start was pretty uneventful. The first km was slow (4'30) but we concluded that an uphill and the number of people caused that. We would get those 15'' later.

Remember the 'one of the fastest and flattest in Europe' part?

A HUGE SIKE ON THIS ONE.

The first 5k were done in 21'48 and the 10k in 43'23. And according to Strava, I PR'd also in the 15k with 1:04:01. The times were inside the boundaries, but the hills were draining so much from me. I thought that maybe that pace was just too hard in those course conditions. I drifted away from my two friends over the 14th km and got in touch with them again at the beginning of the 16th km.

Our pacer was always checking if we were ok and I remember telling him at some point 'wtf is with this course? Maybe the second half will be easier'.

A SECOND HUGE SIKE ON THIS ONE.

At the 16th/17th km, there was a huge 200m hill, next to the local university. The small 5 person group that was with me was all in silence at this point. Our breathing was very fast. This hill was just perfect to drain all the remaining energy we had. It was a suffer fest. But I was holding on.

I remember a post from Alexi Pappas where a fan asked her for some tips on how to handle the pain and the urge to stop. She answered: 'You can handle that. Pain is normal in running. If you expect to feel pain, when it comes you greet it like an expected guest at your dinner party. You knew it was coming. Let it in and show it a good time. Take it with you'.

I was doing that the whole race. I repeated to myself 'It is normal. Accept it.' the entire race. The last two kms were flat. I was trying to keep the pace under 4:15 and maybe go below 1:31:00. When the 20km clocked on my watch I looked at it and figured that a 4'10 km would dip me just under 1:31:00. This was also when we saw one of the race photographers.

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I was happy. The race was almost done. I suffered but it was done.

I saw my mother at the 20,5km mark. She just yelled my name and told me to empty the tank. The last 400m were done sprinting as hard as I could.

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This is the result at the finish line. Did I empty the tank? You get to decide ;) (also, find the 1:19 HM pacer guy for extra points ahah).

1:30:57. A 2 and a half minutes PR and the conviction that with some more training and a flatter course I can run a 1:29, maybe a 1:28:5x...

Thank you for all your support when I was injured. It made me bounce back really hard!

Quick update and some comments. I barely ran at all last week due to stupid posterior tib. This week I’ve run about 15 miles and counting. To play it smart, might give myself today off even though I feel okay. On Tuesday I ran 4 miles on the TM. The pain was about a 3.5/10 and went away after 1 mile. Last night I ran 5 miles on the TM. Again, pain was about 3.5/10 but went away after ½ mile, for whatever that’s worth—I think it’s a good sign. Have been doing LOTS of heel dips and other ankle/feet/hip/glute strengthening. Plan is to do 5 or so tomorrow and 7-10 on Saturday, then maybe up the mileage to 35 next week (no speed/MP/tempo work—just easy running).

I’ve been thinking a lot this week about injuries and how its easy to beat yourself up and blame yourself for these injuries. Why didn’t I rest more? Why did I wear those new shoes on a 20 mile run and only after realize the arch support on those things is totally lacking (yeah that was me). Sure we can blame ourselves and sometimes that’s justified (In my case, it probably is). But I’ve been trying to cut myself some slack and remembering that even the pros get injured. Sure they run tons more than me, but they also have tons more time/support/resources/facilities for PT, injury recovery, strengthening than us mortals. Sometimes these things happen. If you are going to be a runner, inevitably something will slow you down for a while. Not trying to be defeatist and saying you can’t be smart and prevent injuries—just saying that that’s the “burden” we take on as runners because we love the sport and we love what it makes us (Ying/Yang and all that). I think it’s a good mentality to have. You get injured but you don’t sink into depression. You just say to yourself that it’s part of the gig and you start working on areas that your body says need addressing while giving the other parts of your body some time off. You may be off of running, but you still feel like a runner because you are doing the things that runners inevitably will need to do (strengthening, recover, etc.). And your eventual return makes you appreciate the sport even more. Anyway, those are just my ramblings.

Pewow—awesome job! Was the 8k Crazylegs? Not the greatest weather I hear.

RRR—Sounds like you are feeling good!

Slo-twitch: good luck with the upcoming 5k

Tall Dark Roast: Great job with the 5k. Thanks also for starting the discussion on lifting—something I need to do more of.

Jewbacca: Sorry again about the injury worries. Seems like you are still running on it. Do you think the flare up with due to speed or volume (or both)? What have you been doing for treatment for the tib pain?

Puto: Awesome job with the HM. Those are great photos. Wish I could be doing an HM in Europe.

Hereford: Way to put the miles in.

Darkwave: Thanks for the tip on pool running. I did do about an hour of swimming and about 5 minutes of pool running this week on Monday night. I need a float belt—running without one is TOUGH. Very nice job with the 5k. Love the fact that shorter races give you the opportunity to race them more often.

Guy Broman: Holy cow! Way to smash your previous PR. I’m inspired the recap of your journey. I feel somewhat similar to you. Did two previous marathons, both ended poorly because of insufficient training. Aside from some injury weeks, I feel like I’ve put in consistent training and laid a good base since October—for the first time taking running seriously. As a newbie, seeing the changes in my physicality and increases in capacity (looking at my watch after a run and saying “wow, I did that?”) is exciting. I hope I can get the same results you did. Great job.

Sub 600: that looks like a nice week.

Stone: Congratulations to Mrs. Stone! Sorry about the DNF but looks like you are certainly taking it in stride. Have a nice recovery.

RunGuy: I too need to practice running 5ks. I don’t think I’ve ever really dug into one.

BHViking: I’ve never run a down hill course. I’m sorry to hear about the blisters, but great job competing nonetheless!

Gordon: Good idea with the down week. Running is so much more than running, huh? Lots of maintenance, rest and knowing thyself. Something I learned a week too late with the nagging injury I got the day before my planned down week.

OR: Looks like you are overall feeling good on those hills! Nice.

dirtroadSC: Awesome job on the PR!

Statfanatic: Mediocre weeks happen, but your week looks pretty good to me.

Cocoon: Glad you are feeling recovered after Boston. Nice week.

Puddles: Solid.

RunnerSam: Nice job. Wind and hills are fun, aren’t they?

Bdubs: Good luck!

Drcrusher: Welcome to the board!

Jot quill: Hope you had a nice vacay!

Urban: Fantastic job on that marathon! Switching from the 5k to the marathon at the last minute…hmm I don’t think my novice body could do that on such a whim!

Runn3rgirl: Really awesome time with that half.

Jeremy: Have fun with the 5k and 50k! Good luck.

Bruin: Good luck with your upcoming half. Looking strong.

Allen: Nice. Keep it coming.

LancRunner: Sorry about that stomach bug and, wow, that wind. Props for gutting it out.

PutoMiuto,

That is a terrific recount of that race. Adding the pictures made it feel more real. Great job! I really enjoyed reading that.

Lanc: Gotta have bad ones to really enjoy the good ones. I feel you on the no-man's pace, too, its about the same around here. Guess we better just get faster.

PM: Way to hang tough on the suprise hills. Your kits are pretty cool, too.

LH: Very thoughtful ramblings. Keep on that rehab after it starts feeling better.

I have been feeling like a rookie myself lately despite claiming to be a runner for 20 years. I always "took it seriously," but in all the wrong ways. Hanging around this thread has been a great education in taking it seriously in a productive way. I think you are right and we are both just getting set up here in the land of consistency and, as the meat heads say, SERIOUS GAINZ, BRO.

TL,DR: My old-school XC coach was right about it all and I should have listened sooner.