why do you care? build your own financial base. do you expect your parents to run for you, too?
why do you care? build your own financial base. do you expect your parents to run for you, too?
I've pretty much consider ourselves as having the F-U money, so to speak, just because we (wife and I) would generate more than our current working income just off of a 4% return on investments. In other words, if we quit tomorrow, our investments could supplant our working income just from dividends and interest. A generous pension and well endowed social security savings on top of that adds a little insurance. House paid for, child's college plans maxed out to cover 4+ years, etc.
We still work just becuase we are not quite ready to make that step.
Sally Vix wrote:
quickndirty wrote:
Must mean his payday loan came through.
Most people that have F you money don't say they have F you money.
Robert Kraft certainly has F U money. Even though he got caught soliciting sex at a massage parlor, he is rich enough and old enough to not give a damnn what anyone thinks. Plus, his wife has already passed away.
Yeah, who cares if a few hundreds of thousands of young woman are trafficked.
Too early to retire wrote:
I am worth $10 million at age 58, years of hard work and relocations paid off and made it into top management in a large corporation. As much as I would like to retire and enjoy it, I still worry about it not being enough if my wife, me, or both of us live in to our 90’s, meaning it needs to last us 30-35 more years potentially. I don’t think we would normally spend all of that, but I do expect significant increases in healthcare costs, and higher taxes on the wealthy as politicians go looking for more money and target savings and retirement accounts. Plus if you end up in a rest home, it can cost $12-15,000 per month today, so probably double that in 25 years.
You should probably adjust your lifestyle expectations if pulling $200-400k a year cant sustain you in the short term. You're just d*ck-waving at this point if this is something you're complaining about. With your corporate ties, I'm sure you have some small nest egg, retirement bonus, pension payout or something coming. On top of SS payments in 10 yrs. You're pretending like the well is just going to dry up when you stop working? huh???
Assuming you can sell your current house and downsize as you "retire," your 10yr overhead costs should not be significant. Additionally, if you both live past 80 (not thattt likely), your lifestyle costs decrease as medical costs increase. Don't assume you're going to be living whole-hog and burning through medical costs simultaneously . Sure, you could spend $200k+ a year for both of you to be in a high-end care facility, but that's unlikely to be a long-term situation for two of you.
Start making a plan for the next three 10yr phases of your life. Have realistic costs and budgeting and adjust your current lifestyle, as needed, to make the future happen. Do you want to keep working your corporate gig for the "idea" of what your future could be or do you want to start living your current life and future now?
3 mil in the bank wrote:
do the math, carry the zero wrote:
so.....why on earth are you wasting time working? seems like you aren't placing a very high value on your life if you are wasting it away at some job that you just proved you don't actually need to do.
This is a deep question. There's a lot of things that keep me working despite the fact that I feel my job is inherently meaningless. 1. I'd like more buffer than a 4% withdrawal rate. 2. There's a lot of social pressure to keep working: I've got my wife, my inlaws, and most importantly my parents all having high expectations of me. It sucks, but it's there. We are social creatures. 3. It's hard to just give up my comp. 4. I've leveraged my seniority to the point where I only put in 35 hours of face time and maybe 15-20 hours of actual work a week. 5. I like my coworkers.
It'd be nice if my work wasn't a waste of time, but it is one of the things that has driven me to be where I am. I want to bail early so I can spend my time more productively by trying to have a positive impact on other people's lives in a professional capacity. Basically, I want meaning in my work life, not just my family life, and I'll pull the trigger eventually, just not quite yet.
What do you mean by #4 and how do you reconcile that with all your altruistic ambitions below it? You are ripping your company off and blaming your family. Not judging you, most of it makes sense, but part of my job is finding people like you and helping them find other careers.
Sorry if you consider it dick waving but I only posted it to show that the OP and a few others on here are delusional if they think a couple million is FU money. And you missed several points... note that I said “worth” $10M so that is all inclusive of pension, home equity, etc. Also SS is minuscule and I fully expect to get means tested out of that when the time comes. And much of that $10 is in investments which are subject to market fluctuations and taxability when sold.
I will repeat, in all likelihood the tax laws will change, you see the pressure for it all the time in the news, especially as we start entering the next presidential campaign cycle. The country has a $30+ trillion debt, half the people pay no taxes, even more have no retirement savings, SS is underwater... only a fool would think this won’t cause politicians to continue looking for more tax revenue, as they clearly aren’t interested in cutting spending. The far left looks at all the privately owned assets/accounts as a huge opportunity for taxation since the dollars are high and the owners are those evil rich plutocrats. I would have already retired if I had any confidence the tax laws would remain basically the same as they’ve been for the last 50 years. Lastly, we both have fathers who lived to their mid-80’s and mothers who are alive in their 90’s, so yeah, anything can happen but it’s prudent to be conservative and expect that we’ll do the same.
Too early to retire wrote:
I am worth $10 million at age 58, years of hard work and relocations paid off and made it into top management in a large corporation. As much as I would like to retire and enjoy it, I still worry about it not being enough if my wife, me, or both of us live in to our 90’s, meaning it needs to last us 30-35 more years potentially. I don’t think we would normally spend all of that, but I do expect significant increases in healthcare costs, and higher taxes on the wealthy as politicians go looking for more money and target savings and retirement accounts. Plus if you end up in a rest home, it can cost $12-15,000 per month today, so probably double that in 25 years.
You just stated reality. Most here have no idea what FU money is. They will never see it.
A few million in the bank means nothing in the long run. The regular burn rate with a couple of bumps in the road will eat cash quickly.
Net worth is just a term, cash it in and what do you really have?
Most should work to age 65 plus, most should downsize and budget, most should put away untouchable $250-500K of emergency money.
ChadBrad wrote:
3 mil in the bank wrote:
I’m worth 3.4. after bonus is paid in march, that’ll be 3.6. at a 4% safe withdrawal rate that’s an indefinite $144K per year I can spend without ever running out. I live on well below $144K/yr even in a HCOL area with two kids. I most definitely have the power to tell my org to F off.
but I won’t. will grow it to at least 5 mil before punching out sometime before I hit 40.
and yes, could you please have my deck ready by EOD.
You aren’t in the ballpark of FU money. It’s really easy to imagine a scenario where you run out of cash. FU money means it’s impossible for you to run out AND really hard for your kids to run out.
You are doing well. You aren’t wealthy. Not on track to be wealthy. You’d be middle class in Silicon Valley or Manhattan.
By that logic does anyone have FU money? Lots of people have frittered away hundreds of millions.
I'd still argue they had FU money (unless they always had a lifestyle that couldn't be supported by their wealth).
FU money is specific to a person and their circumstances. The poster who said $3.4m is FU money for him is right.
If he were already committed to a more expensive lifestyle it would be a lot more.
Drew Peacock wrote:
ChadBrad wrote:
You aren’t in the ballpark of FU money. It’s really easy to imagine a scenario where you run out of cash. FU money means it’s impossible for you to run out AND really hard for your kids to run out.
You are doing well. You aren’t wealthy. Not on track to be wealthy. You’d be middle class in Silicon Valley or Manhattan.
By that logic does anyone have FU money? Lots of people have frittered away hundreds of millions.
I'd still argue they had FU money (unless they always had a lifestyle that couldn't be supported by their wealth).
FU money is specific to a person and their circumstances. The poster who said $3.4m is FU money for him is right.
If he were already committed to a more expensive lifestyle it would be a lot more.
Sorry, but you are a dope.
Obviously anyone CAN waste all their money on purpose. I’m not suggesting Mr. 3mm+ is gonna do that. But this guy believes he has enough that he CAN’T run out. A ton of things can happen that can force you to blow through single digit millions. Real FU money insulates you from all external forces and most self-inflicted wounds. He’s not there yet, nor is he close. He’s just a guy who’s doing very well, yet appears to believe he’s wealthy.
To early to retire wrote:
Sorry if you consider it dick waving but I only posted it to show that the OP and a few others on here are delusional if they think a couple million is FU money. And you missed several points... note that I said “worth” $10M so that is all inclusive of pension, home equity, etc. Also SS is minuscule and I fully expect to get means tested out of that when the time comes. And much of that $10 is in investments which are subject to market fluctuations and taxability when sold.
I will repeat, in all likelihood the tax laws will change, you see the pressure for it all the time in the news, especially as we start entering the next presidential campaign cycle. The country has a $30+ trillion debt, half the people pay no taxes, even more have no retirement savings, SS is underwater... only a fool would think this won’t cause politicians to continue looking for more tax revenue, as they clearly aren’t interested in cutting spending. The far left looks at all the privately owned assets/accounts as a huge opportunity for taxation since the dollars are high and the owners are those evil rich plutocrats. I would have already retired if I had any confidence the tax laws would remain basically the same as they’ve been for the last 50 years. Lastly, we both have fathers who lived to their mid-80’s and mothers who are alive in their 90’s, so yeah, anything can happen but it’s prudent to be conservative and expect that we’ll do the same.
This guy gets it and is most likely the only person in the conversation that actually has that kind of juice. Try to pay attention to what he has to say and shut your garbage mouths up.
interesting debate. But if having multi-million dollar nest eggs is not the buffer we think, what kind of shape is the rest of the population going to be in? Have you looked at the statistics? It's shocking.
So, really: if those of us in the top few percent by net worth in the U.S. can't retire a little early and not worry about it, what is going to happen with those who have low 6-digit or less retirement savings?
Maybe you're right and we will have to pay for them (and tax law revisions will be the means to do it), but even so, the numbers are just so skewed one would think there's quite a cushion there. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, I bet I'm not alone in thinking this way.
Finisher wrote:
3 mil in the bank wrote:
This is a deep question. There's a lot of things that keep me working despite the fact that I feel my job is inherently meaningless. 1. I'd like more buffer than a 4% withdrawal rate. 2. There's a lot of social pressure to keep working: I've got my wife, my inlaws, and most importantly my parents all having high expectations of me. It sucks, but it's there. We are social creatures. 3. It's hard to just give up my comp. 4. I've leveraged my seniority to the point where I only put in 35 hours of face time and maybe 15-20 hours of actual work a week. 5. I like my coworkers.
It'd be nice if my work wasn't a waste of time, but it is one of the things that has driven me to be where I am. I want to bail early so I can spend my time more productively by trying to have a positive impact on other people's lives in a professional capacity. Basically, I want meaning in my work life, not just my family life, and I'll pull the trigger eventually, just not quite yet.
What do you mean by #4 and how do you reconcile that with all your altruistic ambitions below it? You are ripping your company off and blaming your family. Not judging you, most of it makes sense, but part of my job is finding people like you and helping them find other careers.
By #4, I mean that's how much I work. By "leverage my seniority" I just mean they'd have likely fired me a long time ago if I was right out of school, but because my role is highly specialized and valuable to the org and requires a hard to find mix of skills, the org does not seem to mind.
I don't know if what I'm doing is "ripping off." True, I work less what they would otherwise have preferred when I was hired but even with my reduced workload, I make the company far more money than they pay me. Either way I have zero qualms about it. Every private company in a capitalist system survives by exploiting its workers. I'm just being exploited a little less.
I also don't view my ambitions as "altruistic." I think if I spent all my time running, playing video games, traveling, or other self-centered activities, I'd end up bored and miserable. I just want to do something that impacts others positively. I don't think that's altruism, I think that's just key to living a happy, content, and meaningful life.
As far as the "what constitutes FU money" argument I'll just repeat that y'all are redefining a commonly used term in the FIRE community. I'm not sure why though (fear, I think?). And you're also way overestimating the probability of very expensive disasters. Just because something has happened once to someone else, doesn't make it likely (more fear). The worst is the guy who'd have retired already if it wasn't for the tax changes he is sure are coming down the road, because that is without historical precedent (again, fear).
FU money has been a term for decades. You usually acquire FU money after selling a company.
The FIRE community is a recent development and pretty much sets up its followers for crushing disappointment when it’s too late to fix your finances. It’s a slightly more sophisticated Prosperity Gospel model.
Black Swan events are real. But nobody believes that until they happen.
3 mil in the bank wrote:
As far as the "what constitutes FU money" argument I'll just repeat that y'all are redefining a commonly used term in the FIRE community. I'm not sure why though (fear, I think?). And you're also way overestimating the probability of very expensive disasters. Just because something has happened once to someone else, doesn't make it likely (more fear). The worst is the guy who'd have retired already if it wasn't for the tax changes he is sure are coming down the road, because that is without historical precedent (again, fear).
According to you, literally everyone who retires by definition has fuck you money. Do you think that the MTA bus driver who is celebrating his retirement today has fuck you money?
(That is the correct term, right? Or do you literally call it FU money in your industry?)
I’m an old guy and my definition of “FU money” means 9 figures. It’s one thing to have a million+ in a retirement account but can you write a million dollar check without issues today? Can you afford to wage scorched earth to everything and still be ok?
Retirement is coming up soon (at some point) and I’m lucky to have taken care of my money and not owe anything. Theoretically we can retire now, but when you get to a certain age, your body can and will fall apart and you’ll hemorrhage money quicker than you thought you ever would. What scares me is having to worry about slow and debilitating illnesses. What if I/spouse needs to be put in a home because of Alzheimer’s? I don’t want to end up at 85 alone, sick and broke. And yet that can easily happen.
Karl Hungus wrote:
I’m an old guy and my definition of “FU money” means 9 figures. It’s one thing to have a million+ in a retirement account but can you write a million dollar check without issues today? Can you afford to wage scorched earth to everything and still be ok?
To add to this, a great example of FU money is Jeff Bezos and it's not just because he's the richest guy in the world. It's because the National Enquirer tried to blackmail him with dick pics and now he's going to massacre them like a wolf to a lamb. He can have his lawyers obliterate that entire organization, then fly his private jet over to the ash heap it will become and take a colossal dump on the smoldering remains, all without a second thought about how much it will cost.
That's true FU money.
every retiree wrote:
3 mil in the bank wrote:
As far as the "what constitutes FU money" argument I'll just repeat that y'all are redefining a commonly used term in the FIRE community. I'm not sure why though (fear, I think?). And you're also way overestimating the probability of very expensive disasters. Just because something has happened once to someone else, doesn't make it likely (more fear). The worst is the guy who'd have retired already if it wasn't for the tax changes he is sure are coming down the road, because that is without historical precedent (again, fear).
According to you, literally everyone who retires by definition has fuck you money. Do you think that the MTA bus driver who is celebrating his retirement today has fuck you money?
(That is the correct term, right? Or do you literally call it FU money in your industry?)
Yeah pretty much. The video posted earlier described it well.
Also:
https://www.google.com/search?q="fu+money"+fireThe FIRE community typically defines it as an intermediate goal before having enough to fully retire. It's an amount where you can safely bail on most adverse situations (not every single one) with a big runway. It's an important life milestone because it signifies the time in one's life where one goes from being essentially a slave (like the vast majority of Americans) to having serious financial security and power over one's own life. It's not entry to the monied elite. It's not generational wealth. But it's an important milestone so it gets a name.
embedly link not working. Just google: "FU Money" fire
If you're worried that your few million isn't enough, why not move to a part of the world with decent health care, plus lots of culture, and do something new after you retire?
We also have a good veterans' competition circuit until you reach 100+
I didn't even know what FIRE was so i googled it. Led me to a retirement calculator which tells you when you can retire. I would imagine that if you can retire, you have the F-U money, at least according to their estimations.