What changes should be made to NXN and NXR to make it even better

I think people misunderstand what the word transfer really entails.

If you physically move to another school territory, you should be eligible.

If you dont physically move into a school territory, but change schools, your not eligible.

Someone moving shouldnt be punished - someone just switching schools should be.

1. Agree

2. Agree

3. Form a team from the top runners from each region, and get rid of the school teams.

4. Agree

5. Agree

First off I like how you're not afraid to voice your opinion when you actually are declaring who you are. I'm anonymous (yay!).

But you must also understand your point of view is to make everything just like CA, whereas other people want to make it just like NY, (including me). My perspective is that by removing middle-schoolers you are only taking away their opportunities. Instead, I prefer to promote more opportunities for people and would encourage all states to allow middle-schoolers to compete.

Other random thoughts floating around my skull:

I enjoy how this becomes an issue only when team scores are affected. Would there be equal outrage if a random 8th grade boy qualified for nationals as an individual? Maybe, but I think the argument would be mute.

Your argument is based on it being unfair; based on the team scores as evidence. So are you equally upset that LV has the VA state rule of allowing commuters to attend if the school is not at a maximum enrollment? That is also a RULE and an ADVANTAGE that you like to discuss.

While you think it is unfair to allow young people to run at NXN, I think it is unfair for a coach to be in contact with their athletes during the off-season, as it is in NY rules. So that is and advantage for other states.

And your earlier comments about putting down wood chips was honestly pretty funny. In wet muddy places those wood chips can turn into the most cushioned surface you can think of, and it's far harder to run through than mud. Also, cross country isn't meant to be the same as a track, its supposed to be unpredictable and difficult. Varying terrain is very much a part of that.

Should the NCAA meet have melted the snow on the course and blow dried it in order for some schools to not gain an advantage? Colorado clearly performed better than expected... Just like NY teams.

dunes runner wrote:

1. Agree

2. Agree

3. Form a team from the top runners from each region, and get rid of the school teams.

4. Agree

5. Agree

Haha okay Mr. Footlocker, I understand. NXN captures the team spirit that I think is key to HS athletics. Footlocker misses out on that for the bulk of the season.

8th graders can’t run, but Nike made an exception for an “ineligible” girl and let an 8th grade Grace Ping run when the family lived in Park City for a year.

Then throw in this year’s addition to a team “ineligible” Easton Allred on Mountain Vista’s team, and it looks like Nike just changes/applies the rules how they want.

Fair? I guess it’s their game, they can do what they want. But it seems that it would be nice for everyone to play on a level playing field.

maybe you never saw the old course but people can quickly get swayed into getting gung ho about mud making it true cross country and other nonesense.

I think this current course seems fair as long as they don't let it get too chewed up, I'd rather see strong cross teams rewarded with a few hills then a big mud pit or puddles everywhere

dunes runner wrote:

1. Agree

2. Agree

3. Form a team from the top runners from each region, and get rid of the school teams.

4. Agree

5. Agree

Niles wrote:

Haha okay Mr. Footlocker, I understand. NXN captures the team spirit that I think is key to HS athletics. Footlocker misses out on that for the bulk of the season.

Actually, you're totally off base. NxN doesn't capture any team spirit, but rather rewards certain schools that have bigger programs than others, at the expense of inviting the best individuals from each region, which is what I'd like to see.

Instead of 200 plus runners, with the vast majority who wouldn't qualify if they'd simply been from some other school with not as good of a program, instead of that, invite the BEST RUNNERS from each region, and let each region have it's own team. This way you get the best of both worlds, you get the best runners, AND you get a true team spirit from each region.

Just a reminder, we are talking about the high school cross country national championship. Emphasis on high school. As in for kids who attend high school. Not elementary school. Not a university. Not middle school. High school.

Similar to how a junior in high school is not allowed to race for an NCAA team, a 7th grader should not be allowed to race for a high school (and that's when you ignore the arguments regarding premature pressure, overdoing it, etc).

but what is it really wrote:

Just a reminder, we are talking about the high school cross country national championship. Emphasis on high school. As in for kids who attend high school. Not elementary school. Not a university. Not middle school. High school.

Similar to how a junior in high school is not allowed to race for an NCAA team, a 7th grader should not be allowed to race for a high school (and that's when you ignore the arguments regarding premature pressure, overdoing it, etc).

Technically NXN is not a "High School" National Championship ... It is a "Club" Championship ... Even though it is effectively a Varsity Team championship where team members come from the same high school district ... and the NXN rules do allow team members not to have been team members of the actual high school varsity cross country team.

From the current NXN National web-site Title page:

"NATIONALS

Nike Cross Nationals (NXN) is the ultimate cross country experience. On December 1, 2018, individual and club qualifiers from eight regional championships will compete to be crowned national champion, at the 15th annual NXN."

... Note that the Title Page does not mention "high school" ... and more interestingly, it mentions the eight regional championships and ignores California.

From NXN FAQ Eligibilty:

"In order compete in Nike Cross Nationals or Nike Cross Regionals you must be in good standing with the NCAA, on track to graduate per your high school’s guidelines and have not been dismissed from your club for disciplinary reasons. Additionally, you must be at a grade level that allows you to participate in high school cross country based on your individual State association rules and guidelines."

... and NXN team member eligibility rules simply follow individual high school and State association rules and guidelines.

Niles wrote:

While you think it is unfair to allow young people to run at NXN, I think it is unfair for a coach to be in contact with their athletes during the off-season, as it is in NY rules. So that is and advantage for other states.

I don't know NY rules but if it is against NY rules for coaches to be in contact with the athletes in the offseason then why / how is Coach Aris of F-M always in contact with his teams at NXN? Just curious how that works and does not violate their state rules.

Another clueless poster but it does give Coach Soles another chance to whine about middle schoolers and the advantage some states have,,, by the way MA allows 6th graders!

“ If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “.

Asbel Kiprop wrote:

Another clueless poster but it does give Coach Soles another chance to whine about middle schoolers and the advantage some states have,,, by the way MA allows 6th graders!

“ If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “.

When top programs are discussing no longer attending the event because of rules not being the same for all, it is broken. When teams are pushed off the podium because other teams can use athletes that you can't, it is broken. It needs to be fixed. You know that, but you are a New Yorker and realize that losing that rule advantage would heavily change the results at this event for your teams long term.

All I am asking for is every single team that lines up at the event has the exact same rules. Seems like a no brainer to anyone involved in any athletic championship event.

Doug

NY? wrote:

Niles wrote:

While you think it is unfair to allow young people to run at NXN, I think it is unfair for a coach to be in contact with their athletes during the off-season, as it is in NY rules. So that is and advantage for other states.

I don't know NY rules but if it is against NY rules for coaches to be in contact with the athletes in the offseason then why / how is Coach Aris of F-M always in contact with his teams at NXN? Just curious how that works and does not violate their state rules.

The sport seasons in NY are a continuation of each other ... The XC season ends and the Indoor Track season begins (actually overlap) ... Indoor Track ends and Outdoor Track begins ... Coach Aris and many other XC coaches also coach Indoor Track and Outdoor Track ... so there is no "off-season" with respect to athlete contact.

Technically, the NY XC Federation Meet is post-season with respect to the NYSPHSAA ... Indoor Track meets were already taking place in late November in NY ... Aisling Cuffe and Aislinn Ryan (Foot Locker winners from NY) ran indoor track meets in preparation for Foot Locker.

coach Doug droppin haymakers!!! how you gonna respond kiprop?

dunes runner wrote:

Instead of 200 plus runners, with the vast majority who wouldn't qualify if they'd simply been from some other school with not as good of a program, instead of that, invite the BEST RUNNERS from each region, and let each region have it's own team. This way you get the best of both worlds, you get the best runners, AND you get a true team spirit from each region.

Basically, a second Foot Locker?!

Again, NXN began as an effort to have a HS national championship determined by a race and not rankings. In addition, they wanted the best HS teams to have a FL-like experience. The club format was/is a way of not pissing off too many state associations. Period. But, I do agree with others in that some of eligibility decisions (i.e., Allred) by Nike have been unfortunate. Although imperfect, it is wonderful event and I'm very thankful for Nike's investment in NXN.

Niles is referring specifically to the summer offseason, when by NYS rules coaches are not allowed to coach. So teams like Doug's have a distinct advantage in that he is allowed by Ca state rules to start summer practices in July, whereas NY teams can't formally practice until mid-August.

Just get rid of the damn thing and go back to just having Footlocker.

All due respect to you as a coach, but this whining is really unbecoming. The teams do have the exact same rules. They have to be eligible according to the rule of their state association. If you have a problem it appears to be with the CA state high school association. Maybe you should lobby them to change things.

Coach Soles wrote:

When top programs are discussing no longer attending the event because of rules not being the same for all, it is broken. When teams are pushed off the podium because other teams can use athletes that you can't, it is broken. It needs to be fixed. You know that, but you are a New Yorker and realize that losing that rule advantage would heavily change the results at this event for your teams long term.

All I am asking for is every single team that lines up at the event has the exact same rules. Seems like a no brainer to anyone involved in any athletic championship event.

Doug

No. It is not broken. This means that you are butthurt about losing. I had respect for your stance earlier but your lack of understanding of the entire situation is unbelievable. The rules are the SAME for everyone. You must comply with your own state rules. I dislike the move to allow Easton Allred to compete with MV at NXN because it violated this. But instead of picking a fight with Nike, I think your fight should be against the state federations. If we have different rules for each then the system falls apart.

Also you're making quite the assumption when you say "You know that, but you are a New Yorker and realize that losing that rule advantage would heavily change the results at this event for your teams long term." Who knows what that poster's reasoning, but I doubt their pride for NYS running is that high. I think your own pride for CA running is too strong of an argument on your half. Your entire argument is about losing because of middle-schoolers, and you think it is him who is butthurt??

You assume everything is perfect with the CA system and other rules need to be fixed. I encourage you to open up your mind just a wee bit and question what is truly the best system. (Hint: there is none)

I'm mad that there is no rule about school size! Great Oak is too big and has the socio-economic status that becomes an incredible advantage! Rules vs. advantage, I know, but having different state rules can be an advantage, and still is legal by the NXN rules. Therefore: we are in fact arguing about advantages, not rules.