Truths/Myths about running in college?

This thread has been educational for me.

I ran college cc & track over two decades ago and we VERY rarely missed class for meets. I remember once missing a scheduled exam day to travel for a meet, and the professor was seriously angry that my University approved excuse caused him to reschedule my exam. He was really mad at me about it. Thankfully, that's the only time I remember that happening. I could probably count on one hand the number of class days I missed for meets.

Are college runners today really missing 2-3 days of class a week on a regular basis? I admit I don't really follow college track anymore, and I had no idea this was the case. I am amazed that kids are missing that much class these days.

If this had been the case back in my day, I wouldn't have run in college. I doubt my parents would have allowed it, as they were very serious about me getting a good education, so I could get a good job, so I could get off their payroll. If I had a kid who ran, I would discourage him from running in college if this is how it works now.

Our priorities are seriously out of whack if college athletes are regularly missing that much class.

Yep, that's how DI, DII, and even sometimes DIII works. Heck, even community colleges do this.

I teach at a college, and I had this happen (both XC and soccer) and I went right up to the coach (being it's a co-worker) and I told him straight up, it ain't gonna happen. Yeah, the athlete was pissed, but I had a valid argument. 2 days later, the AD came down to my office and told me "lighten up a little". I asked him what the school is teaching the student athlete by doing this? That, "Oh, Johnny, it's OK to miss an exam for an away scrimmage. Schooling comes last..." Complete bullcrap.

So now what do I do? I don't give a flying f. If they want to miss class, I'm still getting paid... I tell them that to their face. Let them take it for face value...

Students these days at ALL levels get coddled it ain't funny. Might as well just hand out degrees and call it a day. No one wants to work any more they all want it given to them. It's like I owe people people an A just for showing up to class.

I sometimes wish I wasn't born in this generation. It sucks, it really does suck.

I can tell that you are not at a real college but instead some liberal arts D3 school. Power 5 colleges don't make it easier on the students. I have a son majoring in engineering and he misses class every week. He has to make up the exams on Sundays or late the night prior to departing. The quizzes are not made up so he loses those points. So it is much more difficult being a track guy than nearly any other sport and it certainly is harder than not being an athlete. I don't understand how you think somebody is being coddled by missing class and being held to a higher standard because they miss out on quiz points and miss out on lectures.

Before you began work as a college instructor, did you not know of school activities? I am sure other activities besides athletics need to miss classes and need to re-schedule tests. You stated, "this generation." You do not believe student-athletes needed to miss class twenty-five, fifty and seventy-five years ago? You went to a coach and tried to prohibit a student-athlete from taking a test a student-athlete missed due to an excused absence?

"Me and my search committee"

The above quotation from your enormously long post proves DI, DII, DIII, and NAIA people are equal.

I went to a big ten school and finished up a few years ago.

- When recruiting, what do you look for in an athlete besides times?

Coaches aren't wanting a 'problem' kid that is going to be getting into trouble and being a distraction. A focused kid is better

than a trouble making kid that's slightly faster

- Avg. size of roster per year

We had around 14 distance guys, track team as a whole was maybe 50

- Minimum time standards for walk-ons

Ball park of 9:30, 4:26 would be around the minimum

-How many scholarships you have to work with/how you decide who gets what

Whole track team gets about 12.6. We looked at conference scoring potential for track, not cross country focused

-What happens if a runner gets injured/doesn't perform? Is their spot on the team/scholarship in jeopardy?

If it's a walk-on and they're injured for a full year or more their spot would be in jeopardy. If it's a scholarship athlete and they're injured for most of a year they'll be given another year. Two years of being unable to compete it'd probably be taken away.

For the athletes:

- Have you made significant improvements from high school to college?

Yes, 9:0X in 3200 and 4:teens in 1600 down to sub 13:45 5k, sub 8:00 3k, sub 29 10k

-Are you able to keep up with your studies while meeting the demands of your sport?

Yes, finished with decent GPA in engineering. Time management is key, try not to procrastinate projects, do well at the beginning of the semester because it gets difficult quickly after about 4 weeks and you don't want to be trying to catch up.

Anything that you think I should add that is important for high schoolers to know as they look towards continuing their running career?

Don't sacrifice the rest of your life just to run a few more years at a certain school. If the school doesn't have the academic program you want, don't go to that school and just pick your second-tier major option. Pick the school that will allow you to live the rest of your life the way you want to live it.

In response to 'Real D1 colleges' comments, he's right. Large schools don't treat track and field athletes special just because they're doing a sport. In fact, most of them don't care at all. There are tons of students in these classes, starting out with hundreds per class in some of the first two year classes and even the smaller ones junior and senior year are still 40-50 or more. You aren't given a ton of free-passes just because you have to be gone for a track meet. If you're lucky and happen to have a professor that cares they might move a deadline for when you get back from traveling, but most don't budge. I was in engineering and had a project due the week of conference championships. It was 15% of the grade and we were supposed to have a full week to do it (It was supposed to be submitted online Sunday night, assigned on the Monday before). We had to use certain computers in the engineering building and other things only in the engineering building. We left for the meet on Wednesday evening, so I had less than half the time everyone else had to do something that was 15% of the grade and that made it very difficult.

D1 at top academic school with a so-so CC and track team.

1. I improved but not as much as I should have. Most of that is on me.

2. Scholarships were minimal - books and break on tuition, but that was true for pretty much all males. Would have never got admitted to the school and snagged the degree without my feet; that's the real payoff.

3. I got my a$$ handed to me as a frosh by runners who put in their time and did not try and coast on talent (like I did), especially in CC. This happens to all but the most truly gifted. It's a tough adjustment. If you don't go into the season fit, you're not gonna catch up.

4. The studies not a huge problem for me. Actually did much better in college than HS. Juggling it all with travel, etc in season kept me on schedule and disciplined. Take advantage of the academic coordinator (if one is offered) and free tutoring.

Last parting words: If this (competing in college) is really what you want, do everything you can to optimize your chances. Good sleep, diet, etc. Partying is part of college, but running and school have to come 1st. Listen to your coach and take an affirmative role in your outcome. Ask questions e.g. I want to run 25 for 8K next season, what do I need to do? Enjoy the ride. You will remember it forever!

as a division 1 collegiate runner I have some tips about choosing a college. Make sure to really think through it and don't jump at the first school you visit or that seems excited about you. if they are offering scholarship money they can and should tell you before you commit. don't be afraid to wait to sign at a later period so you can have the most time to improve your marks and really consider everything. make sure you go somewhere where you like more than just the running, you need balance and if you hate everything other than running or only have running then you're not getting the most of your college experience. also ask different coaches about their training philosophies and what to expect. more mileage doesn't always = better. as a freshman you don't need to constantly be proving yourself or be trying to do every single thing the seasoned vets are, they have more experience. and at the end of the day if where you're at feels wrong, there is nothing wrong with transferring, you have to do what is right for you

I currently run at the division 1 level and I can confirm that we do miss a fair amount of class for our meets but to be honest, it really doesn't affect me at all. Everything is online and our coaches give us a letter to give to teachers that explain that we're going to be missing class and I have had no problems with my professors and in fact, most of them congratulate me after meets and stuff. Our coaches can also proctor tests as well when we're on the road so missing things isn't a big deal. In response to everyone saying not to go D1, I'd say if you think you are at a level where you could compete well then do it. It is super scary and you will get destroyed your first year but in most cases it will make you a much better runner. D1 schools also usually have nicer facilities and nice things are nice.

My advice to incoming college freshmen in another thread below. Seems to hit on many of the questions that you asked.

DI Mid-Major coach chiming in.

When recruiting, what do you look for in an athlete besides times?

Grades are big for me. Having to worry about an athlete being eligible is a PITA. No coach wants to be receiving emails from the academic coordinator about so-and-so being at risk. Also, it makes me look bad when my teams GPA is low or when students I recruited are always missing class and appointments. At a school my size teams can get a reputation that lasts for a long time.

I'm interested in an athletes character. On recruit visits I pay close attention to how the athlete talks to their parents and people they meet with. Do they respond in a timely manner. Are they polite when speaking to strangers. "please and thank you", opening doors for others, etc. Comes down to team culture. Kicking kids off the team gets harder as the years go on. coaches have to be smart on the front end and if I get a bad feeling about an athlete, I look elsewhere.

Avg. size of roster per year

Cross is 10-16 per gender, add 20-30 more for the track side and that's the team most years.

Minimum time standards for walk-ons

We really dont have them. Yes, we publish walk-on standards but it's more of a walk-on number. All of our event coaches will usually have 2-3 walkons that we feel will be good leaders, a GPA boost, or just a pleasant athlete to work with. If a guy is running 18 minute 5Ks then yes, we will pass. Most of the time though, if we like a kid, we'll let him on the team if he checks the other boxes.

How many scholarships you have to work with/how you decide who gets what

We've got 10ish mens scholarships and 15is women's scholarships. Money goes to athletes that can score at conference. We care a bit about NCAA success but the 1st round is getting so tough we keep a conference 1st mentality. At any given time we're likely to have 2-3 kids a gender on a full but most everyone else is on 20-40% to start and we work them up from there. Our school has good academic aid which helps also. And yes, if we like an athlete we were planning to scholarship we will give a little extra to make sure they sign.

What happens if a runner gets injured/doesn't perform? Is their spot on the team/scholarship in jeopardy?

Well, I can't take a scholarship for that reason so it's sort of a non-issue for us. It's annoying to invest in an athlete and they get hurt for a dumb reason (skateboarding) but usually when injuries happen it's a combination of factors and they don't last forever. If they are looking at missing two seasons something is done. For performance, can reduce or take for that. Also annoying since athletes get lazy/complacent. Some can fool you in recruiting or we just misjudge. I'm a stubborn SOB so if I've got an athlete that isn't getting better I keep pushing. They'll either step up or step down. Either way, no one in my training group coasts on their money.

Anything that you think I should add that is important for high schoolers to know as they look towards continuing their running career?

Tell them to be realistic. If you aren't being contacted by a certain type of school (Ivy, P5, whatever) then it may not be the best fit for you. That's OK. College is a big decision but at the same time, they've got 80 years of life after (hopefully). If you like the coach, team, school, and academics then go if the money works out. Kids need to know that their parents can absolutely ruin their chances at a scholarship or a spot on the team. I'm not recruiting a kid if I think their parent will be an issue in four years. The family needs to talk before going on a visit so everyone is on the same page. The coach wants time with the athlete, not have a parent interjecting constantly or asking basic questions they could have looked up online (What's our mascot? Really? ). Lastly, don't think you're special. A good coach is recruiting a lot of athletes. A family can have their time frame but if I give you a deadline, I mean it. No employer is giving you six months to decide on taking a job and neither does my staff. Do your research and be ready to act if all the pieces fall in place.

Hope that helps.

I think this is a great thing for you to do and a great discussion board....I felt compelled to share some of my story and perspectives...

I graduated about 4 years ago after running for all 4 years at a small, yet D1, school in Michigan. From my perspective, there is a lot to talk about and consider.

I mostly based my decision to go to that school off of recruiting letters that I received in High School, location, and academics. I knew I wanted to run in school, but I also knew I wanted to get a scholarship for doing it and get a good education. That eliminated a lot of schools right away.

I was "fast" in high school, but college was a whole different level. As my friend once put it, "everyone is the star of their high school, but in college athletics you put all the "stars" together and they just become normal. It is easy to become discouraged and just go through the motions as others have said. I used to HATE workout days my freshman and sophomore years.

I got faster immediately after beginning running in college my freshman year, but not by a ton (5k improved by 20-30 seconds). But I did not make sufficient gains until my senior year. It seemed like all of the training and adjusting to running in college took time for my body to adapt to. I also screwed around a bit too much, but also looking book I wanted the "normal" college experience at the same time....prolly good I didn't go to a more competitive (in athletics) school

Our team was anywhere from 9-15 guys (XC) and I remember we did have a couple walk ons, but we also had a kid attempt to walk on but was denied by coach (coach gave him a time trial and said he would have to hit a certain time and he did not).

I had no problem keeping up my grades and graduated on time. As running can't really take up more than 3 hours a day, I found my life was more open for time to study and socialize than it was for others like the basketball team.

Hope you can share some of this with the kids you coach!

Running college track should not interfere with academics in any way. I graduated with honors, and if not for track practice, I'm not sure what I would have done with myself outside of class and studying. Probably nothing productive. You will never have more free time than when you're running college track.

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Your experience at your D3 school was much different than the earlier D1 P5 posters. A D3 program is a nice supplement to your overall college experience. It is fun, you get exercise, and you socialize. You only miss class once or twice per semester for the conference meet. Running at an average Power 5 school requires a significant commitment. You will practice every day including 7AM on Saturdays and Sundays, and have weightlifting, meetings, doctor visits, chiro, psychologist, and hosting recruits. The real commitment though is the travel and meet schedule. You will miss class nearly every Thursday and Friday. You may leave even earlier for conference and nationals.

Predictor wrote:

Your experience at your D3 school was much different than the earlier D1 P5 posters. A D3 program is a nice supplement to your overall college experience. It is fun, you get exercise, and you socialize. You only miss class once or twice per semester for the conference meet. Running at an average Power 5 school requires a significant commitment. You will practice every day including 7AM on Saturdays and Sundays, and have weightlifting, meetings, doctor visits, chiro, psychologist, and hosting recruits. The real commitment though is the travel and meet schedule. You will miss class nearly every Thursday and Friday. You may leave even earlier for conference and nationals.

With college runners missing so much class these days, it's no wonder that half the posters on this board are illiterate.

Seriously, if this is truly the case now, I would activity discourage all high school runners from running at a D1 school. You're supposed to be there to get an education first, and to race second. The tail is wagging the dog.

It's real. The Indiana schedule was posted in this thread so I reviewed the TFRRS results for Joe Murphy from their team. He competed nearly every week from last January though XC nationals this fall. He competed at conference,

regionals, and nationals for indoor, outdoor, and XC. He had to miss Thursday and Friday classes more than he was there for them. He probably travelled occasionally on Wednesday or Monday also.

Predictor wrote:

Your experience at your D3 school was much different than the earlier D1 P5 posters. A D3 program is a nice supplement to your overall college experience. It is fun, you get exercise, and you socialize. You only miss class once or twice per semester for the conference meet. Running at an average Power 5 school requires a significant commitment. You will practice every day including 7AM on Saturdays and Sundays, and have weightlifting, meetings, doctor visits, chiro, psychologist, and hosting recruits. The real commitment though is the travel and meet schedule. You will miss class nearly every Thursday and Friday. You may leave even earlier for conference and nationals.

I missed quite a few classes running for a D3 school. And we practiced every day including early o'clock on weekends. We did not lift, did not need meetings because we met up at practice, had no access to doctors or chiropractors. Did not need a psychologist. Hosting recruits was thirsty work.