I have 23.0 200m speed can I run 1:44

Technically yes. What nobody has mentioned is the 400m takes a lot more aerobic lactic than the 200. You don't even slow down much in the 200, there is no strain on the energy systems like in the 4/8. So if you have world class anaerobic ability, 48 is possible, and with world class aerobic ability too, 1:44 should be The problem is you also need great form. Sprinting the start of the 800 wont get you 144 with that speed. Youd have to be very economical. Bounding, weights, over distance (1000 makes more sense to me as over distance for 800 than 1500) long sprints like 300s, 150s,hill running will all help with this. Balance beam even. If you can run 23 smooth then well you're close. I'd 1. enter more 200s. 2. enter the 400 3. enter more 800s and 4. build up a huge base to really get that world class aerobic ability. The problem really is that its hard to have both. Almost anyone who has world class anaerobic ability and can run 1:44 could break 23, because that suggests a sprinter. So its a bit of an absurdity but technically yes. Still, break 23 why dont you? Or at least run 23 more times and get efficient at doing so.

He’sBackonLRBABY!! wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

No chance it's a mostly-1500 runner. It's Juantorena.

Knife-fighting expressions are from south of the border.

Also big in the UK. I think he may have said that announcing at some point too.

If it were Cram you'd be seeing things like "argie bargie" and "last chance saloon." UK has no non-1500-type 800 runners.

Alright, I’m gonna say either Tom Mckean or Peter Elliot? Either way I appreciate the contributions you’ve made.

Bad Wigins wrote:

He’sBackonLRBABY!! wrote:

Also big in the UK. I think he may have said that announcing at some point too.

If it were Cram you'd be seeing things like "argie bargie" and "last chance saloon." UK has no non-1500-type 800 runners.

Nick Symmonds or Khadevis Robinson

weighing in wrote:

I had 23.0 200m speed and only ended up running 1:50. I must be a bum.

Yep. You must have been wiped often

Absolutely not. I ran 22 high, 50 low and only 1:56, along with a 4:09 1500. Nowhere close to any other times a 1:44 guy could run, whether speed based or endurance based.

PrZ wrote:

Absolutely not. I ran 22 high, 50 low and only 1:56, along with a 4:09 1500. Nowhere close to any other times a 1:44 guy could run, whether speed based or endurance based.

Need more special endurance. Longer reps 600-1k at faster 1500 and 3k pace.

Longer reps at 800 pace, 400/500/600 hitting 52 at 400m

That last paragraph does not make any sense.

Someone with experience yes at talking bs. You are basically bragging about something you've never done. If you've done it you wouldn't need to brag.

The knife comment was an American expression you are not British and you've never run 1:44

You can check stats but most middle distance runners only have a 200m time from when they were younger not at peak.

Old Man 2 Lapper wrote:

A 23 is only one part of being able to run fast in the 800, and it's not really a high bar. If that is your limit then no. I'm sure some of the high mileage guys on here will say otherwise. But as someone who actually ran 1.44 and faster.......you need to bring a bigger knife to the fight.

The knife may need to be a bit bigger, but a 23 200 = a pretty sharp blade!

Thanks! It makes sense to me. Glad to have people like you on here giving us your perspective. Definitely NOT a Brit and happy about that. Hope to see you on another thread being so positive!

Bad Wigins wrote:

He’sBackonLRBABY!! wrote:

Also big in the UK. I think he may have said that announcing at some point too.

If it were Cram you'd be seeing things like "argie bargie" and "last chance saloon." UK has no non-1500-type 800 runners.

Andrew Osagie 1:43, Richard Hill 1:45, Michael Rimmer 1:43, Martin Steele 1:43, Tom McKean 1:43 (also competed for Scotland in 4x400m,part of the Commonwealth Games silver winning team),

Sam Ellis 1:45 (competed at 400m as a junior, bronze at Commonwealth Youth Games)

I think actually Coe, Cram, Ovett and Elliott may have been in the minority as 8/15 types. Their multiple world records and championship medals probably make it seem like there are more of them!

Dixie Normous wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

No 1:48 max

Wrong! There are definitely people with 23.0 200m who are slower than 1:48.

And there are plenty of people with 23.0 speed who have run much faster than 1:48!

In an interview at the end of the 85 season, Cram said that he was pleased with a 400 pb of 48.2 in training and 23 low for 200m. They represented his best ever times for those distances. That was the year he ran his 800pb of 1:42.88. I’m sure in a proper race at his peak form he may have just snuck under 48 for an open 400m, and perhaps 23.0 for a 200m from blocks.

So yeah, a 23.0 200 m runner could run a 1:44 800m, but he’d need to have at least 3:33/ 3:34 for 1500m as well.

PrZ wrote:

Absolutely not. I ran 22 high, 50 low and only 1:56, along with a 4:09 1500. Nowhere close to any other times a 1:44 guy could run, whether speed based or endurance based.

Reflect on this.

World class women run 1:56 or a bit slower. Few of them run 50 and I'd bet none can break 23.

Your 400 pace is 50 and your 800 pace is 58.

Apply this to the best men, running around 1:42. How many of them are running 43 (51-8)? None.

22 high and 50 low implies a difference of about 4.5 seconds (e.g. 22.75 x 2 +4.5 = 50)

If you could run 19.25, your 400 time would be 43!

22 high, 50 low, 1:56.

19.25, 43 and 1:42.

You're basically a very versatile sprinter.

23 FAT from blocks is a slow sprinter, if in their peak years.

If you can do 23-flat from blocks off largely aerobic training, you might want to focus on the 200, where you could be a good 21.x or maybe better.

I was pretty fast in the 100, could jog a FAT 23-flat, and could never touch 1:44, even though I had a great aerobic engine and would do “long runs” of 5-10k.

I think the key is if 23 is easy for you, and how you run it. If you are just lacking blocks and early acceleration around the curve but then lay out a good 23, I would say you are in a good position. I knew a fast 800 guy (not 1:44 though) who was like that. His 300 was way better than his 200.

Deanouk wrote:

Dixie Normous wrote:

Wrong! There are definitely people with 23.0 200m who are slower than 1:48.

And there are plenty of people with 23.0 speed who have run much faster than 1:48!

In an interview at the end of the 85 season, Cram said that he was pleased with a 400 pb of 48.2 in training and 23 low for 200m. They represented his best ever times for those distances. That was the year he ran his 800pb of 1:42.88. I’m sure in a proper race at his peak form he may have just snuck under 48 for an open 400m, and perhaps 23.0 for a 200m from blocks.

So yeah, a 23.0 200 m runner could run a 1:44 800m, but he’d need to have at least 3:33/ 3:34 for 1500m as well.

The factor which skews the data is 800/1500 types don't know how to run a 200 or 400 and don't attempt it often. They can't start, accelerate, don't have a drive phase, can't hold their top speed or form etc. They don't practice and so their times appear as if they have poor speed.

A relay split is often a better indicator of speed than a flat time for a 800/1500 guy.

Coe ran 46.8 from blocks but 45 in a relay. Amos even; split 44.1 but only a 45.5 flat time.

Old Man 2 Lapper wrote:

Thanks! It makes sense to me. Glad to have people like you on here giving us your perspective. Definitely NOT a Brit and happy about that. Hope to see you on another thread being so positive!

There aren't many who are that old!

I think Wohlhuter, Fiasconaro and Boit may be the only three under 1:44 born before 1950.

Aside from Brits and those already mentioned, this is most of them born in the 50s or early 60s:

Abdi Bile SOM 28.12.62

Rob Druppers NED 29.04.62

Philippe Collard FRA 26.02.60

William Wuyke VEN 21.05.58

John Marshall USA 05.11.63

James Robinson USA 27.08.54

José Marajo FRA 10.08.54

1:43.62 Earl Jones USA 17.07.64

Marcello Fiasconaro ITA 19.07.49

Mike Boit KEN 06.01.49

Paul Ruto KEN 03.11.60

José Luis Barbosa BRA 27.05.61

Agberto Conceiço Guimarães BRA 18.08.57

Sammy Koskei KEN 14.05.61

Billy Konchellah KEN 20.10.61

Benyounès Lahlou MAR 03.11.64

Nixon Kiprotich KEN 04.12.62

Robert Kibet KEN 15.12.65

Willi Wülbeck FRG 18.12.54

Saïd Aouita MAR 02.11.59

David Mack USA 30.05.61

SlowTwitcher wrote:

Given world class aerobic and anaerobic systems is 23.0 sufficient speed to run 1:44

No. I was much faster over 200 (and 400 than you - 21.7 / 46.6) and couldn't break 1:46. Even if you have a world class aerobic system I doubt you can get much below 1:48 if at all if you can only run 23 for 200.

An 8/1500 guys with 23.0 speed would be able to run 1:44 - proving he can run sub 3:35. Now I'm assuming it's 23.0 with a standing start and not a rolling start which takes ~0.7 off your time.

The three guys I've coach to 1:44 have all been able to break 23.0 - never raced one, just in a training session with a standing start and the end of a speed session.

Deng 1:44.21 (22.5 - but has never really run flat out)

Rowe 1:44.40 (22.2)

Bol 1:44.56 (21.7)

JRinaldi wrote:

An 8/1500 guys with 23.0 speed would be able to run 1:44 - proving he can run sub 3:35. Now I'm assuming it's 23.0 with a standing start and not a rolling start which takes ~0.7 off your time.

The three guys I've coach to 1:44 have all been able to break 23.0 - never raced one, just in a training session with a standing start and the end of a speed session.

Deng 1:44.21 (22.5 - but has never really run flat out)

Rowe 1:44.40 (22.2)

Bol 1:44.56 (21.7)

+ 1.