Are Genetics important for Elite runners?

Training is a choice but genes are not. Anybody can train but they can't change their genetics.

Predictor wrote:

Training is a choice but genes are not. Anybody can train but they can't change their genetics.

Can't pick your parents. Genes are all about luck, and Americans don't like thinking about how much of their lives are pure luck.

But really, they are mostly luck.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Not My Choice wrote:

That's such a stupid statement that a lot of people, including some coaches, float out there all the time. Like we really had a choice in the matter. My parents were a couple of short, stocky tanks - what was I suppose to do? Not allow them to conceive me before I ever existed? ?

It's a tongue in cheek reference not meant to be taken at face value.

Good...I feel much better now because I'm not the best looking dude around and I've had girls tell me that I should have picked better parents. ?

Good discussion...Yes ran in high school and ran 1513 on track for 5k. Had 50 guys on c.f. team and only a few could break 17 min w/same training. He'll my senior year of c.f. didn't run for 7 weeks and with a week of training ran 16:10. Genetics a must but also good coaching. At university team mate missed 4 months of training and in 3 weeks ran 148 for 800m . 4 months later he wins wc 1500 with 146 last 800! Yes genetics are so important.

Basically what people are saying comes down to the logic terms of 'necessary' and 'sufficient'. If you don't know what that means look it up. Most people here are admitting that Genetics are necessary to be elite but some are saying it's still not sufficient. To get the most out of your talent, you still need a good coach, good program, the lifestyle, the desire etc.

Yes that’s true all other aspects of your life have to be focused about being elite as well.

1.48 last 800m in a 1500m that’s crazy! Was it tactical?

seattle dude wrote:

Basically what people are saying comes down to the logic terms of 'necessary' and 'sufficient'. If you don't know what that means look it up. Most people here are admitting that Genetics are necessary to be elite but some are saying it's still not sufficient. To get the most out of your talent, you still need a good coach, good program, the lifestyle, the desire etc.

It's moot point because if a kid doesn't have the great genetics then all that stuff doesn't matter one bit.

There are so many HS kids who have so much desire, determination, dedication to training, eating right, lifestyle, etc., and belong to good programs with great coaching who don't succeed and move on to elite status.

You need great genetics just to get out of the gait and be in the game. And since tens of thousands of kids go out for XC & TF every year, if genetics wasn't the single most important variable - then why so few to Div-1? Why so few to elite status? Why not hundreds of Galen Rupps & Jenny Simpsons every year?

Predictor wrote:

How can someone even ask this question? Coach HS runners for a year and put them through the same workouts. Some guys will only run 22 minutes, most will run 19 minutes, and a few will run 16 minutes. The best guys move on to college and?again do similar training. Most go D3 and run 15:30 on the track, some go D1 and run 14:30, while the elite end up running 13:40. It’s all genetic.

I agree as I've coached HS kids from 8:50 2-milers down to their teammates who trained the same and only ran 10:30.

But......don't discount how big a factor mental toughness plays. Some runners can push thru incredible pain in races, while others who train just as hard back off when it starts to hurt too much.

iiiiiiiiiiiiiii wrote:

Coaching is also another factor. Having the right genetics AND having excellent coaching gets you to the top.

So many kids have the talent but their coach is sub par. They end up competing in the wrong event, over worked, injured.

There are plenty of 50 second high school 400m specialists but how many ever give the 800, 1600, 3200, xc a serious chance? Those are the kids with world class speed for a distance runner but they are just fast enough to have high school success at the short stuff.

Ryan Hall ran 1:50 and 3:43 in high school and ended up becoming the top US marathoner.

Pretty close. Ryan Hall ran 1:51 and 3:42 in high school. He also trained 90 miles a week at 7000ft and did lots of quality stuff. And just as helpful as his genetics and training: he was ferociously competitive.

Why did letsrun put this mindless nonsense on the homepage?

Positive Contribution wrote:

Not My Choice wrote:

That's such a stupid statement that a lot of people, including some coaches, float out there all the time. Like we really had a choice in the matter. My parents were a couple of short, stocky tanks - what was I suppose to do? Not allow them to conceive me before I ever existed? ?

It's a tongue in cheek reference not meant to be taken at face value.

It would seem he also inherited his parent's stupidity genes.

Here's the exact quote wrote:

XY wrote:

This is nonsensical

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/699064-hard-work-beats-talent-when-talent-fails-to-work-hard

"If ya can't beat'm, join'm" - Kevin Durant

Here's the exact quote wrote:

XY wrote:

This is nonsensical

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/699064-hard-work-beats-talent-when-talent-fails-to-work-hard

Yeah...coming from one of the most gifted B-ball players ever. A 6-11 guy that plays small forward and can dribble like a point guard.

Natural Talent wrote:

Don’t other factors play a huge par as well. E.g

Diet (nutrition)

Sleep/recovery

Training

Response to training (previous post) ;-) genetics

Young activity as a child

(Aerobic conditioning)

MIND STRENGTH

SO ARE THE EAST AFRICAN THE BEST DUE TO GENETICS ? That’s the question no one wants to hear the answer to.

No reason why this shouldn't be the truth. Many other characteristics are specific to ethnic groups. Hair color, hair type, eye color, body size.

Why assume that this biologic/genetic consistency is limited only to those things we feel comfortable talking about? Ashkenazi jews carry specific risk factors for cancer and other inheritable diseases. Pima indians have high rates of diabetes. Many other biological traits are specific to ethnic groups. Science and society have no issue with these facts. They're helpful for both clinicicans and patients. It then stands to reason that something like aerobic capacity, bone mass, muscle strength might be, in some way, influenced or determined by ethnicity.

I agree

At the elite level it's a definite YES!

Even though one's parents might not have been athletes themselves they would have had to carry those genes even though they didn't use them for running.

Of course with the advances made in genetic engineering.................???

Genetics is the single biggest factor in determining your abilities in both a physical and mental sense. Education, training, upbringing, and practice matter little by comparison. Genetics denialism is just plain emotionally driven, self-imposed stupidity, a refusal to accept utterly obvious facts that don’t conform to your liberal worldview and make you feel good.

Here's the exact quote wrote:

XY wrote:

This is nonsensical

"Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.”- Kevin Durant

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/699064-hard-work-beats-talent-when-talent-fails-to-work-hard

Quoting a 7 footer to say that hard work is more important than genetics might be the most unintentionally ironic take of all time.