Could East Africans dominate Triathlon

I could easily train east africans to be good triathletes using: trap bars, dumbells, kickboards, a small pool and exercise bikes. Pretty simple don't have enough bikes? Jog laps around the pool while the other guys bike. Then once you get on the bike the workout has already started. People here are over stating how much upper body size is needed for swimming. Its mostly form. The weights are as much for the biking as the swimming. Just because it was tried before, that doesn't mean it was tried properly. No reason you can't get a skinny guy to swim fast and put on some muscle. After training everyone gets bread and vegemite or something. If nobody puts on mass add a bowl of mixed vegetables and make the eating part of the training. The real question is there a point to doing all this, when for the same efforts you could be producing runners. Maybe a program that offers two paths- runner or triathlete depending on where the success seems more likely.

Fact King wrote:

TriMar wrote:

If they had the training surely they would win every Ironman?

Have no fear, the fact king is here. This was attempted about 10 years ago. Not sure if it was Outside Magazine or who backed it but this was already attempted. Incredible Kenyan runners were brought in and given top resources, training environments, coaches, etc. and failed miserably.

You're welcome.

This is true. They took 2 Ken an sub 2:15 guys who struggled to finsh at above 12 hours while winners go 4 hours faster. Swimming jii a different beast of sport. You can have monsters like lochte/Phelps, yet a 15 year old Chinesese girl can swim as fast as them

Mostly true. Although i dont get how you can get Chinese 15 year old faster than Phelps. What is Phelps 100, 200, 400 fastest. What is hers?

Nah. With the same effort trying to get a Kenyan to be a top triathlete, you can kill yourself to train a 400 pound Texan to try and be a top marathoner. No point in trying.

The prototypical runners wouldn't. Too small. Most IM/HIM are contested over fairly flat courses, which makes cycling much less about power to weight and much more about raw power. Bigger guys are advantaged here. A 5'6" ethiopian isn't going to have the massive sustained engine to cruise as fast on the flats.

Guys like Rudisha or of that build...quite possibly could be very good.

One trick pony vs. multi-sport pony.

If you look at why Phelps is such a good swimmer, it's because he has relatively long upper body and short legs (and very long arms). On average, East Africans EAs have very short upper bodies - this is not racist, their is a lot of data collected on Sit height compared to standing height and East Africans have to one of the lowest ratios, whereas those evolved in cold climates (white Europeans) have one of the higher ratios. So...they would suck at the swim....on average. Would their running/biking compensate? Not sure, but some other body shape might be better. So far there are no good EAs in road cycling, there are a few pros, but they're terrible of time trials, less bad at hill climbing where lighter weight makes such a diff.

EAs upper bodies are so short that the Expected value tables for Spirometry testing (Max lung cap, forced air flow volumes etc) drop the values by about 10% if the subject is EA because their shorter upper bodies limit the size/force of lungs etc....side note: for those thinking asthma meds might help your running if you don't have asthma, that would be liking expecting your car to go faster by increasing the size of you gas tank - and the EAs kick butt with smaller lungs.

I would think east Africans would be better off focusing on trying to dominate track and field first. They are horrendous in the field. No talent in multi sport decathlon/any of the jumps/any of the throws.

Track for them has a ways to go too:

They are insignificant in the 110 & 400 hurdles.

They are insignificant in the 100, 200, 400.

The problem now is that they are not only losing grip on the 800, 1500, 3000, 10000 & 3000SC, but they're losing to Americans & Europeans in the major half and full marathons.

TriNot wrote:

I would think east Africans would be better off focusing on trying to dominate track and field first. They are horrendous in the field. No talent in multi sport decathlon/any of the jumps/any of the throws.

Track for them has a ways to go too:

They are insignificant in the 110 & 400 hurdles.

They are insignificant in the 100, 200, 400.

The problem now is that they are not only losing grip on the 800, 1500, 3000, 10000 & 3000SC, but they're losing to Americans & Europeans in the major half and full marathons.

Kenya is descent in the 400m and 400m hurdles. As far as losing a grip on the middle distance events is part focusing on the roads and a crack down on drug use.

Running: Yes

Cycling: Very slim shred of possibility for anyone not named Chris Froome

Swimming: No, and never

TriNot wrote:

I would think east Africans would be better off focusing on trying to dominate track and field first. They are horrendous in the field. No talent in multi sport decathlon/any of the jumps/any of the throws.

Track for them has a ways to go too:

They are insignificant in the 110 & 400 hurdles.

They are insignificant in the 100, 200, 400.

The problem now is that they are not only losing grip on the 800, 1500, 3000, 10000 & 3000SC, but they're losing to Americans & Europeans in the major half and full marathons.

Yeah, top Kenyan in the 200 this year is ranked 481st. Ran a 21.03. Pretty bad. I think there's 50+ countries ranked in front. Ethiopians/Somalians/etc. are always ranked 1000+.

Anyone else notice there's no Kenyans in the top 10 in the 3000? They better start running...

Something else wrote:

Mostly true. Although i dont get how you can get Chinese 15 year old faster than Phelps. What is Phelps 100, 200, 400 fastest. What is hers?

TriNot wrote:

[east Africans] are horrendous in the field. No talent in any of the jumps/any of the throws.

You sir, are a good disciple of Coevett.

ProbsNotG wrote:

Running: Yes

Cycling: Maybe

Swimming: No

East African genetics tend to produce extremely lean, light, and lanky athletes- perfect for distance running.

However, for cycling, a slightly different physique is required- a little more lower-body strength and mass compared to running, but still lean and skinny up top (ie: Chris Froome).

True, some Africans have been able to make it pro, but these are mostly climbers, who tend to be lighter, whereas the cycling stages of most Triathlons are usually more like time-trial courses (better-suited to more muscular riders) than ascending the Alp d’huez.

Finally, swimmers need even more muscle and, crucially, upper-body strength.

As a result, the ideal physique of a triathlete is far more muscular and powerful than that of most East Africans, meaning that I can’t see them dominating triathlon, even with the same training as European/American athletes.

Yawn.

Look at the brownlee brothers. They dominated triathalon for a while...both skinny as f**k

I think not enough emphasis has been given in previous answers to how technical swimming is. We are not talking, here, about swimming as a beginner, but to swin as a pro, either to get out of the water in the first two packs of a drafting ITU triathlon, or to swim well in open water for 3.8k like. To get good at swimming, you have to master a sport where the first component of success is technical ability or feel for the water. To achieve this, you need hours and years of pratice, with good swimming coaches, and regular access to a pool. East Africa has an obvious lack of those coaches, as much as to top quality swimming pools. You can't dominate a sport if you don't have enough people and money to get good at it.

Then, there is also the problem of cycling. Assume you have enough concrete roads to train, you then have to get an expensive bikes to stay competitive (like a tri-bike). You have to train on it, so to make sure it is adjusted to your body. You also have to take care of your bike carefully, repair or changes pieces... Only for the bike, a year of triathlon can be very costly. Country where people have poor income cannot afford what is needed to succeed at biking.

With more pools in, for example, Kenya. And more swim coaches. And with access to expensive bikes and maintenance for them. Then, with all that, maybe you could get some East Africain to be good at triathlon. Despite those things, it won't happen whatsoever their physiology or morphology is or is not.

Don't be a Coevett wrote:

TriNot wrote:

[east Africans] are horrendous in the field. No talent in any of the jumps/any of the throws.

You sir, are a good disciple of Coevett.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qTAeVGl_e8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCDFDbv0cE0

Lol. There's guys that can jump standing still that high... during box jumps. That's not even 6 feet.

Haha. Javelin? Kenya should be good at it (I mean a javelin (spear) is on their flag) but here they are...only one guy...and at #37 in the world...

San Diego Hobby Jogger wrote:

Something else wrote:

Mostly true. Although i dont get how you can get Chinese 15 year old faster than Phelps. What is Phelps 100, 200, 400 fastest. What is hers?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/faster-than-phelps-chinese-girls-mighty-finish-is-the-talk-of-the-games-20120730-23a6w.html

Ye Shwien clocked 4:28.43. Phelps was 4th that year in 4:09.28. How is he slower than this 16 year old again?

Duh. Draft legal vs IM. People can mean either. Skinny is going to work best for draft legal because you can draft on the swim (significant) and on the bike which is known to be significant. A bigger guy with more raw power is going to have a hard time dropping a solid climbing built cyclist like a Brownlee without some really atypical conditions (open course w/major crossinwds perhaps). Everybody arrives together to the run, where the skinny build of the Brownlee brothers are advantageous and they easily win.

IM is a different game. It's long rides, TT bikes, not draft legal. Swim is 1 hr, so not as important relative to a 2.5 hr run and 4 hr bike. For most IM courses (flatish) you need to be fast on the bike. The fastest guys on flats on the bike are big 6'0"+ guys with massive engines. Weight doesn't slow you down much on flats, air resistance does. Bigger guy produce more raw power, and can compact themselves into a similar space in the wind as a small guy. Therefore bigger guys dominate IM.

Look, if you live on the coasts of Africa, you'll see plenty of people swimming in the ocean, while you're not going to see a lot of people swimming in crocodile, snake, and bilharzia-infested rivers and lakes in the interior. There are not a lot of pools outside the ex-pats houses.