Notwithstanding wrote:
That said, it would require that I take another hour or so a day away from my family which I'm not willing to do right now.
What time do your kids get up in the morning and what time do you go to work? I bet there is a way, you just have to find it.
simple really wrote:
They would still be 2:20 guys because they would still be working 9 to 5, not 8 to 7. Because they want to see how far they can take their running before they get too old to hit their peak performances. To them, the running was more important than the work. To you it is the other way around. No shame in either attitude and no real debate either.
Top guys back in the 70s and 80s were working at running stores, or other places that didn't expect beyond 9 to 5. Those jobs still exist. But today, people want to have a fast-track, high-paying career AND be a big time runner. It didn't happen back then and it's not happening now.
Bill Rodgers used to say that nobody with full-time job could ever beat him. So clearly, he didn't have a full-time job.
Nothing has changed expect the expectations of people who aspire to run that fast.
Not all those guys would be running 2:20 today because a lot of them wouldn't be working 9-5. The expectations of the workplace have changed dramatically since the '70s. There are very, very few successful people who only work 40 hours a week. Top pro runners when you can count stretching, massage, travel, appearances, travel are working over 40 hours/week. Back then you could work 9-5 and be solidly in the middle class, now that is much harder.
I think sooomie has proved the point that it is about priorities and has little to do with working hours per week.
In fact, you're counting your commute and your lunch in that 11 hours? You get an hour for LUNCH? With shower time thats 7 miles righ there. Keep some snacks at the office and you just gained 35 miles a week. How many miles is your commute? If its 20 or less run one direction and carpool on the way home.
When I say you, I mean every one working more than 40 hours a week.
four eyes wrote:
Not all those guys would be running 2:20 today because a lot of them wouldn't be working 9-5. The expectations of the workplace have changed dramatically since the '70s. There are very, very few successful people who only work 40 hours a week. Back then you could work 9-5 and be solidly in the middle class, now that is much harder.
The point is, they generally were NOT "successful people" back then. They were working jobs that didn't lead to long, fruitful careers. They were forsaking those careers for running success. This is a case of people wishfully thinking about the "good old days" when they weren't really all that good. Top guys back then had the same tough choices to make. They chose differently
soooomie wrote:
why do you insist on making it about me? i don't have to chose because i don't want to chose. I don't want to be any more of a competitive runner than I am. I want to spend 11 hours a day at work. what is so hard to understand? If I worked less, I would not run more. Does that get through to you? I'm not in a debate about my situation. Been at the 100 mile weeks and don't want to go back. How many other ways do I have to put it?
Go back to your original post. There is one sentence about what you now insist is the topic then two paragraphs whining about not having enough time because you love your family so much, yeah right. So do you love your family more then people with families that get the running done?
So to summarize. If you don't want it about you, don't talk about yourself.
No Offense, why are you so damn hostile? I understand your point about working running into your life. But I don't think sooomie posted seeking advice. He was simply stating his hypothesis about the decline of American marathoning. Get off your high horse and worry about your own running and not some random letsrun poster. If you have some comments about how the workday affects everyday runners then please add them... but just accept the fact that sooomie is not "spinning his post" into a bitchfest.
soooomie wrote:
Now, we have to make a hard choice... pursue a career, or run. I may be wrong, but that's the purpose of the debate.
I don't see it that way. I see the lack of 2:15-2:30 guys as not being due to higher work pressures as to guys simply not being willing to do the work that puts them there. I don't think people today are lazier, I think they just value the job more than the running success. I think that's WHY they work 55-60 hours a week. They chose differently.
Don't believe me? Go read the 1979 thread. You'll see a bunch of them from the 70s talking about this very thing. The one common theme seems to be that they were more focused on the running than on their careers.
That guy "miles and miles" who posts here once posted his daily schedule. He was doing 140 mpw working full time and taking care of the kids. I don't know if he's working 40 hours a week or 60 and but he was making it work. He didn't have to choose one or the other.
Look at that guy who posts as "MAYEROFF". He's intentionally found himself a job that gives him a lot of time to train. He's moved himself to a part of the world that seems to work for him lifestyle-wise and trainingwise. Whatever you think of his personality (it seems a lot of people hate him), he's put his running first and it resulted in a sub-2:20 a couple of years ago.
You can have a good career on 40 hours a week. It's just that nobody will see you as one of those "go-getter" types who is moving fast up the company ladder. If that's your thing, go to it. But very few people who work 60+ hours a week truly NEED to. They're not going to get fired for nine-to-fiving it. They just won't be the super successful types that they've decided they want to be.
E wrote:
No Offense, why are you so damn hostile? I understand your point about working running into your life. But I don't think sooomie posted seeking advice. He was simply stating his hypothesis about the decline of American marathoning. Get off your high horse and worry about your own running and not some random letsrun poster. If you have some comments about how the workday affects everyday runners then please add them... but just accept the fact that sooomie is not "spinning his post" into a bitchfest.
"E" I am by far not the only one commenting on this. I am far from hostile. By the way how do you get hostile in type? Do you think I am over here throwing things? Sorry I just get a bit tired of people bitching and having excuses for sucking. Obviously he was making one.