What Elite Runner Has Gotten the Least out of The Talent They Have?

epicTCK wrote:

Jim Ryun with modern training, tech, and drugs definitely had sub current WR potential

and el g's 1500 equivalent to 3:42.48

and Webb definitely sub 3:43 potential

3:40.00-99 (your assertion first) is much different than 3:42.48 or 3:42.99 (your assertions you mention second).

If you had a theoretical runner who could run 3:40.8 to 3:42.8 with the frequency that El Guerrouj DID RUN 3:26.XX and 3:28.XX (16 times) running in the same era as ANOTHER theoretical runner who runs 3:42.5 to 3:44.5, the first one would win 9 times out of 10, they are not the same thing.

Think about this:

Cram was the very best in the world for a short time and set the WR in both the 1500m and Mile. It was 3:46.32 breaking Coe's record by 1.01 from 4 yrs earlier. His WR stood FOR TEN YEARS. The Mile WR has only been set 2 more times in 32 years now and it was lowered 3.19 seconds by El Guerrouj. It has not advanced AT ALL for 19 years.

You are suggesting that Webb could have lowered it THREE more seconds to 3:40.XX, when nobody has been able to lower it even .01 in 19 years. Just the fact that the 1999 WR has never been broken, and the similar 1998 1500m WR has never been broken (even though their have been 30 good attempts made on it) tells me that nobody in history was on a plane THREE seconds FASTER.

But that is just my opinion, I don't believe I am the definitive word. I DO BELIEVE that you elected the barrier of 3:40 because it sounds good, rather than using the history of the event or reason.

I think there would have to be a groundbreaking drug introduced to advance the top level another 3 seconds.

I'm gonna commit heresy and say.....Bill Rodgers. With all of his accomplishments, I truly believe he had it in him to run a world record in the marathon. He always ran to win, if there were set up races back then with pacers, if he wanted to he could have been close to 2:08 flat. He valued wins/racing a lot over records. And, all due to politics & timing, he was good enough to win an Olympic medal....whether gold, silver, or bronze.

Tom Byers FTW.

Mo Trafeh

Cam Levins.

A completely average high school runner becomes the best distance runner in the NCAA and wins the Bowerman Award out of a school barely anyone has heard of. Also makes the Olympic Team for Canada that year.

His pro career consists of a decent 27:07 10000m and commonwealth bronze. Pretty underwhelming for a Bowerman award athlete. Most who get that award go onto Olympic medals and times that break the top 20 all time list. He hasn't done anything in almost 3 years.

skylon69 wrote:

I'm gonna commit heresy and say.....Bill Rodgers. With all of his accomplishments, I truly believe he had it in him to run a world record in the marathon. He always ran to win, if there were set up races back then with pacers, if he wanted to he could have been close to 2:08 flat. He valued wins/racing a lot over records. And, all due to politics & timing, he was good enough to win an Olympic medal....whether gold, silver, or bronze.

Ryun a no brainer

Coghlan yes WC champ Chairman of the Boards

Steve Scott

Prefontaine

And

..... Billy White Gloves

Ron Clarke too

I’d have to go with German Fernandez.

There’s a possibly that he’most naturally talented distance runner we’d ever had in this country in my opinion — and that’s not hyperbole.

He’s like Webb in terms of talent but produced far less than Webb.

Story line:

Injured first 3 years of HS, still manages to run 9:10 as a junior. Senior year was the first healthy year and he drops almost 40s in the 3200 and runs a 4:00/8:34 double.

Remember, he declined PRE — had he run, not sure LV would have the record.

Moving forward, in Jan of 09...the kid is only 18 and 4 months. Runs 3:55.0 indoors completely solo and runs a 7:47 3000 with a 4:02 last 1600.

Gets hurt — is a walking boot basically up to WJXC, still gets 11th.

Story goes he basically took 3 weeks off to heal. Came to Stanford invite and ran 13:31.

Wins NCAA 1500 front running, runs 13:25 (still 18)..

And that’s basically the end of his story.

He had about 20 months of health — and produced that.

If you change the premise slightly to what elite runner could have gotten so much more out of the talent they had, the answer would be Henry Rono. Rono could have won multiple golds in multiple Olympics.

In the marathon:

1st- Marc Nenow

2nd- Todd Williams

Nenow based on his 140 mpw and 27:21 10km should have run 2:07.

Williams 2:08, 2:09.

Verzbicas.

+ 1

I’d have to go with Fernandez, Wheating, and maybe Morgan Uceny for modern examples

Abraham Chebii springs to mind. There was a few races around about 2006 where he looked ridiculously good, world class endurance with the finishing power of an 800/1500m man. Never amounted to consistent success though, maybe being so explosive also contributed to him being more injury prone. (Or maybe he wasn't actually as good as I remember.)

German Fernandez if he was ever considered Elite. Uceny won a diamond league race or two, didn’t she?

here comes the guck wrote:

Verzbicas.

Surprised it took so long for someone to mention him. It his fault that he got hit, but his high school times indicated he was destined for big things (whether in track or tri)

Ritz.

Hands down Ritz.

The Overexplainer wrote:

moist wrote:

1) Pre

2) Jim Ryun

3) Suzy Favor Hamilton (though her Vegas gig was quite successful)

4) Morgan Uceny

I don't know where to start here?

Ryun was the AR holder for the Mile in HS (3:55.3). He won MANY NCAA titles. He made THREE Olympic teams. He set TWO WRs in the Mile and broke the WR by an unheard-of margin. He broke the WR in the 1500m. He set the WR in the indoor and outdoor 880yd. He got a SILVER medal in the 1968 Olympics.

All by age 21.

I don't have enough time to point out how stupid that is about Pre, but it starts with 7 NCAA Titles and an AR at ...

2000m

3000m

2M

3M

5000m

6M

10000m

... all by age 23.

Pre is the #1 squanderer of talent of all time, and it's not even close. From poor tactics to his early death, it is all one sad tale of squander.

Ryun is arguably the most talented miler of all time. Think about that for a sec and the thread title. No matter the excuse, the lack of Olympic Gold qualifies him for the list. Had El G never won gold, he would also qualify.

how about Zersenay Tadese. The dude ran a 58:23 half marathon but hasn't had any success at the marathon.

skylon69 wrote:

I'm gonna commit heresy and say.....Bill Rodgers. With all of his accomplishments, I truly believe he had it in him to run a world record in the marathon. He always ran to win, if there were set up races back then with pacers, if he wanted to he could have been close to 2:08 flat. He valued wins/racing a lot over records. And, all due to politics & timing, he was good enough to win an Olympic medal....whether gold, silver, or bronze.

Not really heresy and I get your point. He got a lot out of his talent but not in major championships nor did he really take a shot at WR. Part of the reason he had to race a lot was financial, because pro runners were technically amateurs and could only earn peanuts.

I can’t believe no one has mentioned Mary Cain.