Does Training in Minimalist Shoes = Faster Racing?

1st Timer wrote:

Not at all.

Lydiard contributed, well, everything to this sport.

trackhead and Richard have yet to do so.

They are self-promoting hacks.

Yet what trackhead is "promoting" (minimalist shoes) is something Lydiard himself advocated. I've read interviews with the man in which he said many of the same things you'll often here Trackhead say. It is disingenous to call trackhead a hack for espousing an idea and then simply gloss over Lydiard's own support of the same idea.

Trackhead might be a little too in love with the idea of minimalist shoes -- to the point of being very one-note about it sometimes -- but unlike Richard, he's in very good company by embracing it.

Richard, on the other hand, comes from another planet. A very lonely one.

Not buying wrote:

Self-importance.

I could give a shit about my own importance.

Putting out all this stuff online and in person, if it helps one perosn get healthy, stay int he sport and improve (which it has) -- then it is worth while.

If I was so concerned about my own self-importance I'd drop the pseudonym and by air time.

If you would take notice that lydiard also had his runners on sand doing most of their running. AGain I must express that things of different cultures that work for them may not always work for americans. For example no american distance runner would be able to handle the kenyan diet.

joe,

much appreciated.

trackhead are you still runing for steve scott and that university?? I am dying to know I am so curious.

Average_Joe wrote:

Yet what trackhead is "promoting" (minimalist shoes) is something Lydiard himself advocated. I've read interviews with the man in which he said many of the same things you'll often here Trackhead say. It is disingenous to call trackhead a hack for espousing an idea and then simply gloss over Lydiard's own support of the same idea.

Lydiard contributed much more than a opinion on shoes. trackhead has not.

Lydiard's technique for promoting his opinions were not the same as trackheads.

I'm not sure why they are being compared.

trackhead is still in the same category as Richard, even if there are a few more people on his planet.

Trackhead has not been around that long in the sport when compared to lydiard. But do not degrade him for trying to do his best and follow his beliefs. I love the guy to death because he is so passionate and follows his beliefs and does his best to back them up. It may seem that I do not like him but that is not the case. I enjoy our little banter. I have agreed with him on things and disagreed. I hope he has taken nothing personally because we are one in the same following our beliefs and trying to back them up. Trackhead will contribute greatly to the sport of running in someway shape or form I am sure of that. Personally I think he would be a great agent. I know when I am ready for an agent I will ask him first because I trust and believe in him. Those are the types of people that need to be in the sport. I enjoy talking with him about the sport even if we disagree because it is fun to have an educated discussion. No one will ever agree on everything. But I do know that he certainly agrees with me on the fact that more people need to stop bashing on our fellow country men and support them more instead.

runninginsandiego wrote:

If you would take notice that lydiard also had his runners on sand doing most of their running.

Do you really believe this?

lydiard was smart they were not doing most of their mileage on asphalt or concrete like is happening now in America. It is hard to not do most of your running in America on Asphalt or concrete.

runninginsandiego wrote:

"It is hard to not do most of your running in America on Asphalt or concrete" .

Thus the need for cushioned trainers.

my point exactly.

trackhead will you please respond when you have time. I truly want to know and care to know what you are doing?

1st Timer wrote:

Average_Joe wrote:

You want to lump Arthur in with Gibbens?

Not at all.

Lydiard contributed, well, everything to this sport.

trackhead and Richard have yet to do so.

They are self-promoting hacks.

Wrong.

Trackhead isn't selling anything, he's just trying to help. I spent spring break at a friends house who lives in trackhead's area so we went to his store. The service I recieved at the store was by far the best and most knowledgable out of any running store I have ever been in.

Trackhead helped me personally and spent a good deal of time watching me run in various flats /lightweight trainers until we found the ones that worked for me best. Like most stores I've been in he automatically didn't bring out motion control shoes just because I have flat feet and then tell me to go jog around outside. He watched me run in them.

While I was in there he also sold standard trainers to another guy, so this isn't some cult following or whatever you want to call it. Some people had success with trainers and others have switched to flats and its been the best move they could have made.

Before you make such bold statements like that I'd suggest you get your facts straight. You may not agree with the minimalist approach, and thats fine do what works for you, but both proponents for trainers and flats have valid points.

I think you would have to be pretty reckless to jump into doing all your training in flats. I personally think that's a process of years, not months. I'd still retain a pair of cushy trainers for bad days.

At any rate, I run 10-15 mpw in flats out of about 50-60 overall, and I've noticed that my on-and-off case of mild achilles tendonitis has actually gone away. My stride is more powerful, my form is better and I feel better while running. I run intervals twice a week in my flats, as well as some easy jogging once or twice a week.

The goal is to maybe increase those two days to 3-4 days by the end of the year.

Trackhead makes a lot of good points. You may think he's a hack until you look at the Japanese experience, when you find that he's not that crazy after all.

Why hate Trackhead? Because he feels his way is the only way; it's ALWAYS right. For everybody. If you say you do just fine without minimalist shoes or that they injure you, he says its some deficiency on your part or you didn't try hard enough...he won't accept that they just aren't for some people. THAT is why he's an idiot.

I've been running for about 14 years now at a pretty high level. As long as I wear flats for track work and tempos I have absolutely no problems with my calves. I have NEVER had an injury that has forced me to take more than a day or two off. I'm often told by complete strangers at races that I have amazing form and I look like one of the most efficient runners they have ever seen. However if I exceed about 2 runs per week in non-trainers it beats my legs up and I can't work as hard because my quads start feeling tired all the time.

If going minimalist keeps you from getting injured and lets you train consistently, good for you, go for it. If it doesn't, anyone that tells you that you need to keep beating yourself through "adjustment periods" just for the sake of going minimalist is a complete idiot.

AH,

If you're running fine, no injuries -- great. What do I gain by trying to change your thinking? Do I think that it is an avenue that you could explore to improve your performance? Sure -- it's like eating right. If you want to cover all your bases you cut out the processed stuff. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to run well if you eat Oreos, but they're not doing you any favours.

As you said, you don't have (or see) any motivation for going to less shoe. The time it would take you to transition isn't worth it given your skepticism for its supposed benefits. That's fine.

I never had a training related injury in the Kayanos, but my calves sure as hell hurt when I wore spikes. So I made the switch and am happy with my progress.

I freely admit that El Guerrouj and Radcliffe and others run in shoes that I wouldn't recommend them. I know that I sound arrogant when I say that, but as I wrote above, it's a part of maximizing every avenue of training.

Here's an interesting question: if more elites, in addition to those from Japan, trained exclusively in flats and bucked the trend of their manufacturers, how would your opinion change?

and BTW -- yep, should race in the fall.

wHAT ARE YOU HOPING TO RUN? trackhead can you tell me what your training weeks are like right now? Thanks sorry to be nosey I am just really interested.

long run is 18-20mi running 7:10-7min/mi for most of it until the last two miles when I go ~6:50 and sub6 for the last

workouts like 8mi @ 6:06 pace two weeks ago, tonight 10x1200m @ 4:30 w/ 60s rest. Feeling good when running it.

awesome job. WHat do you do your easy days at like your aerobic work the rest of the week.