How long will it take to become mediocre: a training log

This thread is getting good. And I know what you're thinking, winnr1, how can that be? I just had a super awful week of training and racing. One, you didn't. And two, the advice being thrown around here is pure gold. Like Couchto5k, I'm in my 30s, and it is great for me to hear this stuff. I wish I heard this kind of stuff when I was in my teens. Pay extra attention to Pappy, the guy was a legend in his youth.

Now, I want to use myself as a cautionary tale. I already said a few pages ago that you remind me of myself in high school. But I didn't go into many details. As it so happens, I was searching in our files for some adulty paper work and I found my HS training logs. I read through all of them. And I was sooo disappointed in how things went. I knew our training was pretty sub-par, but man it was bad.

Like myself and others have said, take the time to slow down on your intervals and run more easy miles. I spent three years in HS doing the same training you are doing. Tons of 200s, 400s, and 800s, occasionally longer stuff, but mostly not. I started out in sophomore year, and the 800 was my race. That year I ran low 2:20s indoor, then outdoor saw me continually progressing down: 2:17, 2:14, 2:13 and I was pretty happy. Coach realized I was doing OK and put me in a bigger race at the end of the year and I ran 2:09. I was ecstatic, and couldn't wait for the upcoming seasons.

Junior year I ran XC for the first time. Started in the mid 18's for 3 mile and had my best race mid-season in the mid 17's (end of season I couldn't get anywhere near that). I was disappointed in the progression, but thought I gained a ton of strength for track.

Now the bad news. I never got faster. That 2:09 remained by best 800. I never got lower than mid 17's in XC. I never broke 5 in the mile, I never broke 11 in the 2 mile.

Looking back, I can see coach was having us run all our intervals all out, all the time. And we ran SO many of them! I was a workout king. I could run with the leaders on our team and bang out 70 second 400s like no other. But that was all I could do. I had zero aerobic strength.

If I could do it all over again (and oh how fun that would be), I would slow down on the interval days. It would be tough cuz my teammates would probably still be going balls to the wall. And I would probably have to do all the workouts as there was no way coach was going to individualize our training. But I would work at running them as controlled and easy as possible. I would have also added more easy miles on my own. Particularly a long, easy run on the weekends. I think 3 or 4 days a week I would have tried to get in the habit of getting up early and just cruising for 5 or 6 miles before school. That would give me 20 to 30 extra miles of aerobic work.

Then come summer and winter training, I would really look to change my training. Like Pappy said, do some digging around. Read some of the great books on running from coaches like Pfitzinger, Daniels, Hudson, and more. Read biographies on the old studs like Bill Rodgers, Alberto Salazar, Pre and more. My library has almost all those books, see which ones yours has, too.

And don't feel too down. I doubt other people are disappointed in you. If anything, they would probably be happy to chat with you about your struggles and how you feel about your races. Keep going, but don't keep going in the exact same way.

Alright I have to stop distracting myself and study for that test tomorrow, so this will be short and sweet

Couch to 5k- I wish I could take a week off, but I can't. Maybe this week and next week I will just go at an aerobic pace for any workout I do. Your 5x1k session looks good and strong, I would assume that you might be in shape for a PR, or at least close (though I am in no way a good assumer of times). Best of luck, though I do hope to beat your time in an upcoming road race in about a month.

Following this thread...- Yeah, I do have to admit after that 3200, my legs felt like concrete. Our 14x400 workout for that week was more of a race indicator workout for our coach to decide what he would put us in. That 6x600 workout idea seems interesting. Maybe I'll suggest it to my coach (if not I may do it over spring break).

keepgoing- This helps me a lot, a firsthand story from roughly the same situation as I am in now. I will slow down my workouts from here on out (no matter how much I hate the idea of "losing" workouts to people on the same level as me.

I had been considering getting back into doubling and maybe now is the time so early in the season. I may start with 2 days a week at 4 miles a day in the mornings and see how my legs handle it from there. I am also thinking about only taking one day a week off and running on Sundays even though my coach doesn't want me to (sorry, coach).

All in all, I just want to thank you guys for the help. It may not seem like it yet, but this advice is seriously taken to heart and thought about when I run. This summer I am considering doing half-marathon or marathon specific base training and really ramping up the mileage with a ton of easy runs (though I will be working full time so that may be difficult). Maybe this fall will be a breakout XC season for me. Sub-11 and sub-5 are my main goals as of now, realistic goals be darned.

Good stuff man! I think those are realistic goals, and you should definitely keep shooting for them.

Taking things a little easy for a week or two could give you a nice mental and physical reset. I would probably do that before I started playing with doubles. But once you're feeling good, maybe give it a try.

As for taking one day off, does your coach want you running 7 days a week or 5 days a week? For me, I need that day off every week. In HS I kind of mixed it up with 6 days and 7 days a week in season.

Our coach wants us running 5 days per week, but I may begin running 6

Winnr - you can easily take a week off. Tell your coach you had an injury. As long as he isn't a nazi you should be able to get away with it. I did this all the time in high school when training was dumb.

Also, a thing I've noticed - you always seem to single out the workout when someone gives you advice. They are mostly just examples, you don't have to replicate that workout, just do one that has a similar effect. There's been a lot of good advice on this thread - not just interval workouts that look good on paper. Just think about the general concepts of training - not the specific workout like 7x300 or whatever

Week of 3/4-3/10

Sun: 5 miles easy +4x100m strides

Mon: 1.5 mile warm/cool, 2x100m strides, 4x1 mile (5:57, 5:56, 5:53, 5:51) 5 min rest between miles.

Tue: AM: weights

PM: 5.5 miles easy (8:10)

Wed: 1.5 mile warm/cool, 6x200 w/ 1 min rest (38-37) 6x400 w/2 min rest (77-75) 3x800 w/ 3 min rest (2:45)

Thu: Am: weights

Fri: 2 miles easy (8:00) + 4x150m progressions

Sat: 14 mile long (7:58)

Total: 38.375

Pretty good week, I think. The workout on Monday felt nice and comfortable all the way through (the rest probably helped with that)

Wednesday's workout was actually pretty tough, especially on the 800's, but at least I finished on pace unlike last week.

That long run was not a fun thing to do, I have no idea how some people do 20 mile long runs.

Next meet is Thursday, and then spring break begins (woo). I will probably take my spring break and just do easy miles, maybe a tempo in there but nothing too severe.

Week of 3/11-3/17

Sun: 3.25 miles moderate(7:25)+ 4x100m strides

Mon: 1.25 mile warm/cool + 4x100m strides, 5x1200m tempo pace w/ rest (1,1,1,3,3) in (4:24, 4:22, 4:20, 4:22, 4:16)

Tue: Rest (sick)

Wed: pre-race 1.25 miles easy + 4x100m strides

Thu: 2.5 mile warm/cool, 1-mile race (5:12) (73, 77, 83, 79)

Fri: Rest

Sat: 12 mile long (7:45)

Total: 25.75

Low mileage week was planned, which is good timing for me to get sick (kinda). The mile race went very well, went out tactically for the leaders so I was with a large pack that broke the wind for me through the first couple of laps before they all took off in the second half.

Very close to my PR, I am pretty sure that in about 3 weeks I will have another meet where the mile will be the only event that I run, which should be enough time to prep me for sub-5 (hopefully the weather behaves in April).

Recent mileage has been weird (here are the last 8 weeks)

27.25

31.475

26.25

33.625

32.6

29.25

38.375

25.75

Next week is due to be high mileage, up to 45 with two workouts planned and a long run.

6 weeks from conference

Week of 3/18-3/24

Sun: Rest

Mon: AM 6 miles moderate (7:17)

PM: 4 miles easy (8:00)

Tue: 6 miles steady (7:30)

Wednesday through Friday rested due to illness

Saturday: AM 4 miles easy (8:00)

PM: 2 mile warm/cool, 4 mile tempo (6:30)

Total: 26 miles

Annoying week, had strep throat on Sunday and then on Wednesday became very sick with a bad cough, and didn't want to risk getting pneumonia so I rested for a few days.

Next week I have a Friday meet and might be doing the 3200/1600 double again so I will go for 11:15 and 5:10 again.

5 weeks until Regionals

Week of 3/25-3/31

Sun: rest

Mon: .75 mile warm + 3x100m strides, 2.5 mile tempo (6:38 pace), 1 mile rest, 2.5 mile tempo (6:30)

Tue: 1 mile warm, 5 mile fartlek (10k, 5k, 3200, 1600 w/ short jog rest)

Wed: 2 mile warm/cool, 6x100m strides, 12x300 (66 down to 48, averaged 56)

Thu: 2 miles easy (7:50), 3x150m progressions

Fri: 1.5 mile shakeout, 4 mile warm/cool, 20x50m strides

1600m race in 5:05 (New Pr!) splits were 69 76 82 78, optimization calculator says 4:58 is possible...

3200m race in 11:23 (also a new Pr)

Sat: 10 mile long run (7:50)

Total: 38 miles

Very tiring week, three workout days in a row is psycho and my legs feel like garbage after that long run.

The races were very fast on a new track at a local college, and due to lack of competition, I scored points in both the 1600 and the 3200. Next week is going to be interesting due to the Oklahoma teacher walkout, and practice schedules are going to be hectic. (hopefully no 3 workout week)

Is sub-5 possible next Saturday? I am running a leg in a 4x800 a couple of hours beforehand, and the weather is looking good.

I have been thinking about summer base training and was wondering how y'all felt about this idea.

My teammate and I were considering doing marathon-type base training at 55-60 MPW and long runs in the 16-18 mile range.

Most of what we would do would be low intensity, maybe one tempo and one aerobic effort day of long repeats (miles/2k reps) per week, as well as doubles on some days.

Is this a good or bad idea?

Hi winnr1. I think it would be a good idea for summer and mileage goal seem to be appropriate. If I were you, I would stick to mostly easy running + long run + tempo, especially at the beginning when you start increasing mileage.

Another type of workouts I think should be included would be not vo2max intervals but some rep work at mile to half mile pace but with long full recovery. This should be really beneficial to you as it would help you with leg turnover, work on neuromuscular connections and should help you with your speed. As you are still young, you have a potential to improve your speed more significantly then say someone who started eunning in his/her 30s. I think maybe even some 400pace work might be appropriate but with full revoveries.

16-18 mile long run is too long imo. I've always read that the long run is supposed to be 20-25% of your weekly mileage. So if you're running 60MPW then at most your long run should be 15miles. I also don't think you need to double to run 55-60 MPW. The idea of tempos/Fartleks/long cruise intervals sounds good tho. I'd take a look at Summer of Malmo if you can.

Congrats on the PRs!

But man that week looks crazy. I have no idea what "150 progressions" are, but coming in the middle of that week, it honestly looks to me like you had 4.5 hard days out of 5. Then you followed that up by going long. Hopefully you can get a true block of easy training in.

As for summer, I agree with the others. Up the miles. Do some tempo. Do some faster stuff (I personally love simple fartleks). And do long rungs. But no need to go over 2 hours. And don't think of it as marathon training, sure that has more miles, but it is quite a bit different than getting a solid base for XC. Don't lose site of that being the goal.

Week of 4/1-4/7

Sun: Rest

Mon: 1.75 miles warm/cool, 8x1k (3:38, 3:36, 3:38, 3:38, 3:43, 3:46, 3:48, 3:43) w/ 1 minute rest.

Tue: 4 miles moderate (7:00)

Wed: 2 miles easy, 4x150m progressions

Thu: 6 miles warm/cool/shakeout, 12x50m strides,

1600m race in 5:05 (71,77,82,75), 3200m race in 11:23 (tied both of my times from last week, weirdly enough). Coach cut my 4x8 leg because he wanted me to try another 3200 in order to qualify for our next meet (didn't quite qualify, so I run JV next week).

Fri: 6 miles recovery (7:50)

Sat: 12-mile long run (7:50)

Total: 40.5 miles

Good week with significantly less intensity than last but the workout on Monday was fairly tough. The races were good, in reverse order from last week (last week it went 1600-3200, this week it went 3200-1600) and with more wind in the 3200 than I was prepared for but tied my PR nonetheless. In the 1600m I need to work on my third lap. I just always seem to fade at that point that I need most to have a good lap and my kick is not remotely good enough to make up for it.

Oldfish- In regards to the speedwork, I most likely will not be doing that during my summer base phase other than my strides. At most, my teammates and I would do 6-8x400 @ Mile pace w/2:00 recoveries in place of a long interval session later on in the summer.

UATC- I had forgotten about the 25% rule, our coach had mentioned this to us over the summer but still had my group do long run days longer than 25% of our mileage.

I was going to double the 60 MPW due to my body not being able to handle more than 45 MPW in singles, and then SLOWLY up my mileage and decrease the number of doubles I would be doing.

Summer of malmo is where I had gotten the idea of more low-intensity running during the summer, and more aerobic paced work than anything else. (also I tried to access the website a few minutes ago, and it seems to be having issues currently)

keepgoing- 150 progressions aren't very difficult, just a speed increase every 50m from 3200-800-400 with a walk back recovery.

As for the marathon training, a few of my teammates and I were considering training for a marathon that occurs a few weeks after our XC season ends, doing very long runs during the weekend in-season and using our taper for regionals and state as the start of our marathon taper, my main concern is whether or not this would have a negative impact on my XC season.

Thank you all for the responses!

FVC meet 4/26. I will qualify for regionals in the 1600 (need a 4:55).

Quick question: If my goal "peak" race is 4 weeks away, how should I structure my mileage/long runs during these next few weeks?

Thanks

Week of 4/8-4/14

Sun: Rest

Mon: AM- 1.5 mile warm/cool+4x100m strides, 12x400 w/2 min rest (75,74,74,74,75,74,74,75,75,74,74,72)

PM: 4 miles steady (7:30)

Tue: 4.5 miles easy (8:00)+ 15 mile bike (equals ~5 miles running)

Wed: 1.5 mile warm/cool+4x100m strides, 8x200 w/1 min rest, 1 min rest, 4x800 w/ 3 min rest

200's-(37) 800's-(2:39, 2:44, 2:45, 2:44)

Thu: 2 miles pre-race (8:00)

Fri: 3 miles warm/cool+8x50m strides, 3200m race in 11:20 (Splits of 5:30, 5:50)

(I got smoked by poster 3200y5000 lol)

Sat: 10 mile long run (7:45)

Total: 40.25

Good high mileage week with a lower long run. Windy conditions Wednesday through today were just brutal in workouts and the race. The fact that I set a PR really makes me excited about next week's race, which my coach has informed me I will be running the 1600 in (I think I will be in a 4x8 leg as well, finally).

We are 3 weeks out from regionals so I believe our mileage is about to take a dip after next week, which we are told is going to be high intensity.

Week of 4/15-4/21

Sun: rest

Mon: 1.5 mile warm/cool+4x100m strides, 16x400/1min rest (100-69)

Tue: 1.5 mile warm/cool+4x100m strides, 5x1k/1 min rest (3:45, 3:40, 3:45, 3:48, 4:05)

Wed: rest

Thu: 2 miles easy +4x150m progressions

Fri: 2 mile warm/cool, 4x100m strides, 1600m race in (5:02)

Sat: 5 mile recovery

Total: 21.35 miles

Well, my season has finished I think. I needed sub-5 to go to conference, and I failed.

I won't say I am happy with this season, because I am not. I only PR'ed by eight seconds. We had guys PR by more than that who were significantly faster than me to begin with.

I might just run some pointless meet unattached just to achieve my only goal for this season (providing my coach doesn't randomly let me run conference, which is unlikely).

All in all, thank you all for the support this season, I will continue to update this thread, but my base building season will not start for at least a couple of weeks. I am now just thinking if what reasonable goals for cross would be and what type of mileage I will hit this summer.

Week of 4/22-4/28

Sun: rest

Mon: 1.5 mile warm/cool, 8x200 w/ 1 min rest (33-35)+ 2x400 w/ 6 min rest (71, 66)+2x800 w/ 8 min rest (2:36, 2:32)

Tue: 5 mile easy (8:00) + 4x100m stride w/ 100m jog rest

Wed: 1 mile easy +2x150m progressions

Thu: Conference meet: 1.5 mile warm/cool, 8x50m strides, 3200 in (11:11) and 1600 in (5:18)

Fri: 3 mile recovery

Sat: 8 mile long run (7:34)

Total: 26 miles.

This week was weird.

I ate like my season was over and was shocked to see my name on the conference meet roster.

I was slated to run the 3200 and split (5:23, 5:48) for a huge PR.

I had 30 minutes of notification that I was running the 1600m due to an injury to one of our 1600 guys, and when our first lap was in 68, I knew I was in for a rough race. Basically, it was a good workout week and I think I could absolutely destroy my 5k PR if I enter a road race.

Maybe I am running regionals, as nothing is out of question now.

Week of 4/29-5/5 Regionals!

Sun: Rest

Mon: 1.75 mile warm/cool, 8x400 w/ 1 min rest (74, 72, 75, 71, 75, 78, 80, 76)

Tue: 5 mile recovery (8:10)

Wed: 3.5 mile warm/cool, 8x100m strides, 2k @ 3200 pace (6:56 in windy conditions)

Thu: 3 mile recovery

Fri: 2 mile pre-race

Sat: Regionals

3 mile warm/cool, 4x100m strides, 3200m in (11:23)

Total: 24.25

Was a great season and an awesome meet. Time was disappointing and placement was near the back of the pack, but was fun to watch my teammates qualify for state (including a MONSTER kick by one teammate to win the 1600 from 20m behind with a lap to go).

Might try steeplechase this summer, Thoughts?