Moo Goo wrote:
Take out 2 groups in this country responsible for most murders and see how quickly the number drops.
Yep, cops and gun owners.
Moo Goo wrote:
Take out 2 groups in this country responsible for most murders and see how quickly the number drops.
Yep, cops and gun owners.
Also, secret police are a big thing there for fighting illegality. Which is funny because sometimes you feel like there aren't so many police around. I've been approached by people on motorbikes asking what I'm doing. Police. I once saw somebody arrested by six men and women wearing regular clothes. His motorbike was surrounded at a traffic light, they grabbed him and put him on the back of somebody else's motorbike and sped away.
The U.S. has a very high standard of living, high levels of policing, high rates of conviction for violent crimes other than rape, stiff sentences, yet a very high murder rate relative to all the foregoing. In other words, you have a 1st world country with 3rd world murder rates. This isn't about non-homogeneity. The fact is that the vast majority of murders of black people are committed by black people and that the vast majority of murders of white people are committed by white people.
vnam wrote:
Also, secret police are a big thing there for fighting illegality. Which is funny because sometimes you feel like there aren't so many police around. I've been approached by people on motorbikes asking what I'm doing. Police. I once saw somebody arrested by six men and women wearing regular clothes. His motorbike was surrounded at a traffic light, they grabbed him and put him on the back of somebody else's motorbike and sped away.
I don't know about secret police.
Back home if there's a gun related report on the news (not necessary any shot being fired, may just be some fight among gangsters with gun appearance) more than once a year, that would bring the city's image down greatly (a violent city with gangster activities) and the incumbent city mayor would have a slim chance getting re-elected in the coming election. People are very sensitive to violence issues, so are (have to be) the politicians. They'll get the police all worked out to get the street clean and safe.
comedyrelief wrote:
afluenza wrote:No killer cops and no white murderers with unfettered access to guns.
You do know that even though the US has almost twice as many guns per capita than any other country in the world, it only ranks 90th or so in terms of murder rate? High rates of gun ownership do not necessarily equal high homicide rates. In fact many areas of the world with low rates of gun ownership (much lower than most of Europe) such as South America, Central America and Africa, have the highest homicide rates in the world (a gun owner in El Salvador is 345 times more likely to kill someone than a gun owner in the US).
Take a look at the nations above the US on that list. Its shit nations, to be blunt. Placing 90th is pretty bad for a well developed nation like the US. Get your facts straight.
El Salvador? Give me a break.
afluenza wrote:
As far as it being a white issue, most other races (other than Asians) have much higher homicide rates than whites despite lower rates of gun ownership [blacks are 7 times more likely than whites to murder someone in spite of the fact that they have a much lower rate of gun ownership (18% vs 42%)]. Get your facts straight before you post again.
Are you talking spefically in the US? Hows the difference in poverty and general crime between white people and blacks for example? A rich white man is far less likely to shoot someone than a poor black man, I would guess. Would be interesting to hear some more facts on this from you.
No one has mention drugs. Gang violence = drugs. South/Central American murders = drugs. Cop shootouts with perps = drugs. Juarez, Mx = drugs. LA Crime = drugs.
That $20 of pot comes with a murder.
After Socialist dictators like Mao Zedong and Pol Pot murdered half the population, there wasn't much left for the other criminals.
When the US socialists get their own Mao, we'll see the homicide rate drop. There might not be many of us left, but at least we won't have Vegas on our hands.
peep and egg wrote:After Socialist dictators like Mao Zedong and Pol Pot murdered half the population, there wasn't much left for the other criminals.
Between the start of the Cultural Revolution in 1966 and its end in 1971, China's population grew by 106 million.
You idiot.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
peep and egg wrote:After Socialist dictators like Mao Zedong and Pol Pot murdered half the population, there wasn't much left for the other criminals.Between the start of the Cultural Revolution in 1966 and its end in 1971, China's population grew by 106 million.
You idiot.
Coulda been 130 million without Zedong.
Law of averages applies. Zedong committed enough murder to last China until 2050. After that we'll see their numbers start to creep up.
peep and egg wrote:
Coulda been 130 million without Zedong.
Doesn't sound like he "murdered half the population."
peep and egg wrote:
Law of averages applies. Zedong committed enough murder to last China until 2050. After that we'll see their numbers start to creep up.
China is like many other places that are seeing a drop in birthrate, even without their one child policy.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
peep and egg wrote:Coulda been 130 million without Zedong.
Doesn't sound like he "murdered half the population."
peep and egg wrote:
Law of averages applies. Zedong committed enough murder to last China until 2050. After that we'll see their numbers start to creep up.
China is like many other places that are seeing a drop in birthrate, even without their one child policy.
omg you are dumb
A good 'ol shining star on the hill Singapore.
It is a city state dictatorship. Let's all do that and sees what happens.. oh right, history.
Compare the usa to industrialized nations and we are a leader in violence and murder. Only third and fourth world nations exceed us. Many of those nations have violence as a result of religious wars and tribal wars.....
Murder rate in Taiwan is 4-5/100k, roughly the same as the US. Taiwan has no guns.
I think there is a lot of under-reporting of a wide range of crime in Asia. I see a lot of violence, hear of a lot of violence in other countries, and all my friends in other Asian cities have stories of violence. Even Japan.
It is just a myth that the place is more peaceful. Anything but....
east coast wrote:
Lots of reasons, some of them uncomfortable truths:
1. Very homogenous societies. All else being equal, homogenous societies are happierand safer. Very low income inequality as well, meaning poverty is less likely to drive crime.
2. East Asians, on average, have the highest IQ of on any ethnic group of people in the world. Higher group IQ is inversely correlated to violent crime.
3. No guns, or lack of gun culture.
4. Very small groups of "certain" people who demonstrate high capacity for violence in other parts of the world.
UK is hardly homogeneous. 3 is the main reason
Read 'Crime,Shame, and Reintegration' by John Braithewaite. Even though it was written in 1989 it is still relevant in explaining why we have such a high violent crime rate and Japan has such a low rate.
Basically Braithewaite says that collectivist societies (like Japan) have a different shaming mechanism that leads to remorse but then there is a greater effort at reintegration of offenders back into the community rather than permanently stigmatizing them. Most deviance is handled informally in the community without reaching the police. People actually care what others think of them and don't want to bring shame on themselves and their families. Humans are social animals, so for people who are integrated socially, others reactions are much more powerful deterrents than any threat of harsh sentences.
More individualistic societies (like the US) have more permanent stigmatizing shaming mechanisms. Deviance is now handled more formally and impersonally through bureacracy and less through the community. We also are more individualistic and don't give as much a F what others think of us. So we get some people who become more and more isolated and they don't have as much to lose socially by committing violent crimes. The powerful threat of other people's opinions means nothing.
Obviously these are ideal typologies and even in America there are places and groups that are much more community oriented, or integrated. I can remember not doing some things when I was young because I didn't want my mom to be sad and for it to get around the neighborhood. But he is talking about probabilities not certainties. And we have a greater proportion of "rugged isolated individualists".
Good times are killing me wrote:
I would be shocked to learn that any numbers being reported on murders in East Asian countries is anywhere near accurate. I have literally seen people murdered in Asia and I'm pretty sure nobody reported anything.
Are you sure they weren´t figuratively murdered?
comedyrelief wrote:
afluenza wrote:No killer cops and no white murderers with unfettered access to guns.
You do know that even though the US has almost twice as many guns per capita than any other country in the world, it only ranks 90th or so in terms of murder rate? High rates of gun ownership do not necessarily equal high homicide rates. In fact many areas of the world with low rates of gun ownership (much lower than most of Europe) such as South America, Central America and Africa, have the highest homicide rates in the world (a gun owner in El Salvador is 345 times more likely to kill someone than a gun owner in the US).
As far as it being a white issue, most other races (other than Asians) have much higher homicide rates than whites despite lower rates of gun ownership [blacks are 7 times more likely than whites to murder someone in spite of the fact that they have a much lower rate of gun ownership (18% vs 42%)]. Get your facts straight before you post again.
Oh, you have lower homicide rates than a number of 3rd world hellholes! You must be proud!
Doclove wrote:
east coast wrote:Lots of reasons, some of them uncomfortable truths:
1. Very homogenous societies. All else being equal, homogenous societies are happierand safer. Very low income inequality as well, meaning poverty is less likely to drive crime.
2. East Asians, on average, have the highest IQ of on any ethnic group of people in the world. Higher group IQ is inversely correlated to violent crime.
3. No guns, or lack of gun culture.
4. Very small groups of "certain" people who demonstrate high capacity for violence in other parts of the world.
UK is hardly homogeneous. 3 is the main reason
Same w/ Canada. 21% immigrants vs 13% US. Toronto 2.6mm people and 50% were born outside Canada. And yet...somehow....there are only 15-20 gun murders/year here.
Either the US is experiencing the largest mental health crisis the world has ever seen, a crisis which ends right at the US-Canada border, or......there are too many guns in the US.
east coast wrote:
Lots of reasons, some of them uncomfortable truths:
2. East Asians, on average, have the highest IQ of on any ethnic group of people in the world. Higher group IQ is inversely correlated to violent crime.
.
then why is the murder rate in Taiwan the same as the US? And this despite the fact that there are no public owned firearms, and Taiwan is an island?